"Anchor Babies" - Constitutional Nonsense?

[Syriusly]

There is no "their citizenship" as you call it, and they are not "citizen children". They are illegal aliens, just like their parents. And their parents simmigratin status of illegal can and is determined within hours of their capture, illegally crossing the Mexican border. It is also the status of criminal of having committed a crime, ranging from misdemeanor to felony, depending on the number of offenses.

How is a child born in the US an Illegal alien. An alien mean he came from some other country...How the hell is a child born on US soil be from some where else? That is laughable.

They aren't. If their parents are illegal aliens they just entitled to our citizenship by birth. They are citizens of their parent's country. Many countries require that at least one parent be a citizen of their country in order for their newborn to qualify. There are legal aliens and illegal aliens. Learn to know the difference.

Actually there are legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants pending adjudication, and illegal immigrants, who are subject to deportation.

But the parents' immigration status is irrelevant, having no bearing whatsoever on the citizenship rights of the newborn American citizen.

No such thing as an "undocumented " immigrant. They are illegal aliens according to immigration law. Just because they haven't been caught and prosecuted yet doesn't change the fact that they are illegal aliens. And no, their kids are not entitled to our birthright citizenship according to the writers of the 14th. Their parent's status is very relevant because of the qualifier of "and' subject to our jurisdiction. They are only subject to obeying our laws simply by being on our soil. Nothing more.

Watch out Jones!

You keep disagreeing with OldGlory- he will ignore you!

Stones the size of peas.

 

[Flopper]

AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

Protectionist mangled the above: there is no more qualifying language than this.

SCOTUS won't touch it, Congress can't touch it, only an Amendment can change it.

You left out the part about excluding foreigners, aliens, etc. "and" subject to the jurisdiction which is the qualifier. Neither their parents nor they are under our full jurisdiction . They are under the full jurisdiction of their own country. No one will touch it? That is merely your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.....we've all got one. It wouldn't even take an Amendment to change it because exclusion is already in the amendment. It just needs to be re-interpreted as the writer's intended it to be. Why wouldn't you want it re-interpreted or changed since it makes a mockery out of our citizenship and it is costing us billions in tax dollars every year?

According to the Supreme Court they are under the jurisdiction of the United States

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    (a) The illegal aliens who are plaintiffs in these cases challenging the statute may claim the benefit of the Equal Protection Clause, which provides that no State shall "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a "person" in any ordinary sense of that term. This Court's prior cases recognizing that illegal aliens are "persons" protected by the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which Clauses do not include the phrase "within its jurisdiction," cannot be distinguished on the asserted ground that persons who have entered the country illegally are not "within the jurisdiction" of a State even if they are present within its boundaries and subject to its laws. Nor do the logic and history of the Fourteenth Amendment support such a construction. Instead, use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" confirms the understanding that the Fourteenth Amendment's protection extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory. Pp. 210-216.

This is against the intent of the founding fathers of the 14th amendment,. and thus belongs in the trash can.

Amazing, how conservatives always cry, "It wasn't their intent" when legislation doesn't say what they want it to say. However, in regard to intent, Congress understood clearly what they were voting for, even if they did not particularly like it. Virtually all supporters of the amendment agreed that it would protect the “civil rights” of blacks and everyone. President Johnson and several senators stated that the legislation would bestow citizenship on the children of foreigners who were not diplomats.

 

[Flopper]

Yet, we are left with what he actually put in the bill and what Congress and the states approved, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside." During the Senate debate, 3 senators including Senate Judiciary Chairman LymanTrumbull, as well as President Andrew Johnson, asserted the Citizenship Clause would confer citizenship on children born in the United States to parents who are not U.S. citizens (and not foreign diplomats). Congress was well aware that the language in the bill would grant citizenship to these children. If their intention was otherwise they would have narrowed the scope of the citizenship clause which they didn't.

Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Which includes Howard's intent. Stop trying to wiggle out of it.

Howard's intent is clearly the language of the 14th Amendment.

“all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside.”

Why would he use any language other than what he intended to use?

The idea of allowing kids of foreigners to become citizens was thought to be so absurd, that it didn't even require mention. Everyone knew what Howard intended.

You are babbling and have no way of proving your statement.

Are you saying that Howard didn't say these words ? The words don't need proof. The speak for themselves.

Yes, Howard's words due speak for themselves when he defined the meaning of jurisdiction before the Senate.

Howard stated in the Senate (1st Session, 39th Congress, pt. 4, p. 2895) “The word jurisdiction meant the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now". This pretty well shoots down the interpretation of the citizenship clause to mean anything other than all children born of foreign parents are citizens with the exception of foreign diplomats, the same as children born of US citizens.

Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Flopper]

There is no "their citizenship" as you call it, and they are not "citizen children". They are illegal aliens, just like their parents. And their parents simmigratin status of illegal can and is determined within hours of their capture, illegally crossing the Mexican border. It is also the status of criminal of having committed a crime, ranging from misdemeanor to felony, depending on the number of offenses.

How is a child born in the US an Illegal alien. An alien mean he came from some other country...How the hell is a child born on US soil be from some where else? That is laughable.

They aren't. If their parents are illegal aliens they just entitled to our citizenship by birth. They are citizens of their parent's country. Many countries require that at least one parent be a citizen of their country in order for their newborn to qualify. There are legal aliens and illegal aliens. Learn to know the difference.

Actually there are legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants pending adjudication, and illegal immigrants, who are subject to deportation.

But the parents' immigration status is irrelevant, having no bearing whatsoever on the citizenship rights of the newborn American citizen.

No such thing as an "undocumented " immigrant. They are illegal aliens according to immigration law. Just because they haven't been caught and prosecuted yet doesn't change the fact that they are illegal aliens. And no, their kids are not entitled to our birthright citizenship according to the writers of the 14th. Their parent's status is very relevant because of the qualifier of "and' subject to our jurisdiction. They are only subject to obeying our laws simply by being on our soil. Nothing more.

Watch out Jones!

You keep disagreeing with OldGlory- he will ignore you!

Stones the size of peas.

It is both an honor and privileged to be ignored by someone who can't carry on debate and just states their opinion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

To every person subject to the laws of the land, and that means aliens, too.

 

[Syriusly]

How is a child born in the US an Illegal alien. An alien mean he came from some other country...How the hell is a child born on US soil be from some where else? That is laughable.

They aren't. If their parents are illegal aliens they just entitled to our citizenship by birth. They are citizens of their parent's country. Many countries require that at least one parent be a citizen of their country in order for their newborn to qualify. There are legal aliens and illegal aliens. Learn to know the difference.

Actually there are legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants pending adjudication, and illegal immigrants, who are subject to deportation.

But the parents' immigration status is irrelevant, having no bearing whatsoever on the citizenship rights of the newborn American citizen.

No such thing as an "undocumented " immigrant. They are illegal aliens according to immigration law. Just because they haven't been caught and prosecuted yet doesn't change the fact that they are illegal aliens. And no, their kids are not entitled to our birthright citizenship according to the writers of the 14th. Their parent's status is very relevant because of the qualifier of "and' subject to our jurisdiction. They are only subject to obeying our laws simply by being on our soil. Nothing more.

Watch out Jones!

You keep disagreeing with OldGlory- he will ignore you!

Stones the size of peas.

It is both an honor and privileged to be ignored by someone who can't carry on debate and just states their opinion.

I have never understood the point of telling people you are going to ignore them.

When I want to ignore someone- I just ignore them.

 

[Oldglory1]

To every person subject to the laws of the land, and that means aliens, too.

Where does it say that being subject to our laws means you get birthright citizenship for your kids if you are here illegally? Subject to our jurisdiction isn't just about our laws.

 

[JakeStarkey]

oldglory1, your interp is not that of the law.

Go do something meaningful, please.

 

[1751_Texan]

There is no "their citizenship" as you call it, and they are not "citizen children". They are illegal aliens, just like their parents. And their parents simmigratin status of illegal can and is determined within hours of their capture, illegally crossing the Mexican border. It is also the status of criminal of having committed a crime, ranging from misdemeanor to felony, depending on the number of offenses.

How is a child born in the US an Illegal alien. An alien mean he came from some other country...How the hell is a child born on US soil be from some where else? That is laughable.

They aren't. If their parents are illegal aliens they just entitled to our citizenship by birth. They are citizens of their parent's country. Many countries require that at least one parent be a citizen of their country in order for their newborn to qualify. There are legal aliens and illegal aliens. Learn to know the difference.

You want all parents of newborns to go to court to prove their immigration status...how would that even work?

That is the ridiculousness in not thinking things through. There would have to be a law forcing parents to go court the prove their citizenship...BRILLIANT.

Keep on thinking of those gems.

 

[Oldglory1]

There is no "their citizenship" as you call it, and they are not "citizen children". They are illegal aliens, just like their parents. And their parents simmigratin status of illegal can and is determined within hours of their capture, illegally crossing the Mexican border. It is also the status of criminal of having committed a crime, ranging from misdemeanor to felony, depending on the number of offenses.

How is a child born in the US an Illegal alien. An alien mean he came from some other country...How the hell is a child born on US soil be from some where else? That is laughable.

They aren't. If their parents are illegal aliens they just entitled to our citizenship by birth. They are citizens of their parent's country. Many countries require that at least one parent be a citizen of their country in order for their newborn to qualify. There are legal aliens and illegal aliens. Learn to know the difference.

You want all parents of newborns to go to court to prove their immigration status...how would that even work?

That is the ridiculousness in not thinking things through. There would have to be a law forcing parents to go court the prove their citizenship...BRILLIANT.

Keep on thinking of those gems.

No, upon the birth of a newborn the parents should be prepared to prove their status in this country in order for the hospital to issue a birth certificate that either makes them U.S. citizens or a birth certificate that merely states they were born in their state and are non-citizens. The parents would have 9 months notification of this to prepare to bring in either a birth certificate that denotes they are citizens of this country or a legal residency card. If the parents can't /won't produce either than the above should apply. You are making a mountain out of a molehill and for the obvious reasons.

 

[Oldglory1]

oldglory1, your interp is not that of the law.

Go do something meaningful, please.

It's not "my" interpretation it is the writer's intent. I am doing something meaningful. I am fighting for legislation to change this travesty. What are you doing other than promoting making a mockery out of our citizenship and turning a blind eye to what it is costing this country?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oldglory1, the law already proves that if a baby is born in the US except in already constitutionally created exceptions, that said baby is a citizen.

There is no dispute.

 

[Oldglory1]

Oldglory1, the law already proves that if a baby is born in the US except in already constitutionally created exceptions, that said baby is a citizen.

There is no dispute.

Where did it prove that? They were a part of the exceptions. Right, there is

Oldglory1, the law already proves that if a baby is born in the US except in already constitutionally created exceptions, that said baby is a citizen.

There is no dispute.

Where did it prove that? They were a part of the exceptions. Right, there is no dispute. The writer's of 14th didn't intend for children of illegal aliens to gain birthright citizenship. It excluded foreigners and aliens that are not subject to our full jurisdiction. Everyone on our soil is subject to obeying our laws but that isn't full jurisdiction. Therefore the qualifying word of "and" subject to our jurisdiction. If everyone were automatically subject to our jurisdiction (sans our laws) there would have been no need for that qualifying word.

Ok, I'll ask again. Since we disagree on the meaning of the 14th let's set that aside. Are you prepared to join the movement to end this travesty which is costing us billions of tax dollars and making a mockery out of citizenship via illegal immigration? After all, there already has been several Amendments to our original Constitution (even though that isn't what is needed in this case). If not, what are your reasons then? If you can't give a viable reason then off to the dust bin you go with the rest of the anti-Americans in here.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

====

Oldglory1, your dissent means nothing.

 

[Flopper]

There is no "their citizenship" as you call it, and they are not "citizen children". They are illegal aliens, just like their parents. And their parents simmigratin status of illegal can and is determined within hours of their capture, illegally crossing the Mexican border. It is also the status of criminal of having committed a crime, ranging from misdemeanor to felony, depending on the number of offenses.

How is a child born in the US an Illegal alien. An alien mean he came from some other country...How the hell is a child born on US soil be from some where else? That is laughable.

They aren't. If their parents are illegal aliens they just entitled to our citizenship by birth. They are citizens of their parent's country. Many countries require that at least one parent be a citizen of their country in order for their newborn to qualify. There are legal aliens and illegal aliens. Learn to know the difference.

You want all parents of newborns to go to court to prove their immigration status...how would that even work?

That is the ridiculousness in not thinking things through. There would have to be a law forcing parents to go court the prove their citizenship...BRILLIANT.

Keep on thinking of those gems.

No, upon the birth of a newborn the parents should be prepared to prove their status in this country in order for the hospital to issue a birth certificate that either makes them U.S. citizens or a birth certificate that merely states they were born in their state and are non-citizens. The parents would have 9 months notification of this to prepare to bring in either a birth certificate that denotes they are citizens of this country or a legal residency card. If the parents can't /won't produce either than the above should apply. You are making a mountain out of a molehill and for the obvious reasons.

Those molehills would soon become mountains.

If the court ruled that the children of illegal immigrants are not citizens, then congress would have to pass legislation laying down the rules for birthright citizenship, one parent a citizen, two parents, one parent a citizen and one legal resident, etc. The court can not make those decisions. In addition congress would have to revisit a number of immigration laws based based on the 14th amendment citizenship clause plus some civil rights legislation. States would have to revisit a number laws such as state citizenship laws and changes to birth certificate laws to include citizenship and there is no guarantee that all states would make those changes.

Children born of legal residents in the US would no longer be citizens so congress would have to decide on their status.

Then there's the problem of children of unknown parentage, parents who fail to produce proof of citizenship, and common law marriages.

However, the biggest mole hill would be the increase in the number of undocumented immigrants. A study by the Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research group, observes that an end to birthright citizenship would increase the illegal immigration population, not reduce it, leading to “the establishment of a permanent class of undocumented workers.” The study predicts that the number of unauthorized immigrants could swell from 11 million to between 16 and 24 million by 2050, depending on how restrictive new laws would be.

 

[Oldglory1]

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

====

Oldglory1, your dissent means nothing.

It' not about my dissent. You posted it right there. "AND" subject to the jurisdiction. Can't you read? I asked if you would join our movement to end this nonsense and you didn't even reply. I have no choice but to put you in the dust bin along with the others who don't care about pulling for a positive change to put respect back into our citizenship and to save us billions in tax dollars. Parents who had no respect for our immigration laws should not gain citizenship for their kids just because they managed to breach our borders. Bye, bye.

 

[JakeStarkey]

oldglory1, I accept the status quo, I speak decent Spanish (I grew up in a Mexican-Anglo community in San Diego County, CA) for an Anglo, and your cause is wrongfooted in law, culture, and politics.

 

[1751_Texan]

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

====

Oldglory1, your dissent means nothing.

It' not about my dissent. You posted it right there. "AND" subject to the jurisdiction. Can't you read? I asked if you would join our movement to end this nonsense and you didn't even reply. I have no choice but to put you in the dust bin along with the others who don't care about pulling for a positive change to put respect back into our citizenship and to save us billions in tax dollars. Parents who had no respect for our immigration laws should not gain citizenship for their kids just because they managed to breach our borders. Bye, bye.

All persons born on US soil are under the jurisdiction of the US. Every person in the US... other than a diplomat is under jurisdiction of the US and the US Constitution. Name one person in the US right now that is not under under its Jurisdiction?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thus, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States . . . are citizens." As Scalia says, he looks at the text, not the intent.

 

[Oldglory1]

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

====

Oldglory1, your dissent means nothing.

It' not about my dissent. You posted it right there. "AND" subject to the jurisdiction. Can't you read? I asked if you would join our movement to end this nonsense and you didn't even reply. I have no choice but to put you in the dust bin along with the others who don't care about pulling for a positive change to put respect back into our citizenship and to save us billions in tax dollars. Parents who had no respect for our immigration laws should not gain citizenship for their kids just because they managed to breach our borders. Bye, bye.

All persons born on US soil are under the jurisdiction of the US. Every person in the US... other than a diplomat is under jurisdiction of the US and the US Constitution. Name one person in the US right now that is not under under its Jurisdiction?

Nope, they only have to obey our laws while here. They are not under our jurisdiction in any other way. Illegal aliens are not under our jurisdiction they are subject to their own countries full jurisdiction.

So how about we move forward and agree to disagree and seek change to our birthright citizenship so that those who have violated our immigration laws and are tapping into our tax coffers because of giving birth on our soil can no longer do that? Let's put some respect into our citizenship. Are you up for? If not, why? Last chance before you go into the dust bin with the rest who put illegal aliens and their kids above the national interests.