An alternative to water boarding

[Ringel05]

An alternative to water.... is what shows on the topic list.... I was going to suggest whiskey or wine........

 

[hortysir]

An alternative to water.... is what shows on the topic list.... I was going to suggest whiskey or wine........

Cheers!!

 

[Ringel05]

Find their greatest fear then present them with it.

For example . . . with me it wouldn't take much 'spider threatening' to get me to squeal.

Me too.
I'll wrestle a gator and tickle a snake before I get remotely close to a spider

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJNPcaIosA0]‪Snake Bites Woman's Breast‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[IndependntLogic]

Dump a quart of bacon grease on their heads and say " OK tell the truth since Allah can't have you now and we'll buy you a hooker.

But if they've never eaten bacon (pork), how would they know that's what it was? Nah, I'm sure shit like that was tried anyway. And they're even on to waterboarding by now, knowing they won't actually be allowed to die. I'm just trying to think of clever alternatives. Not that my intent is to bring up the entire debate ... again ... I just overheard the radiation technique described this morning as "...worse than waterboarding..." and I thought it's probably true.

Oh, I can give you plenty of "clever alternatives"; tested, effective, essentially physically harmless and absolutely non-lethal; the problem is, we can't use any of them anymore, because that might be "torturing" the poor terrorists, ah, I mean, "detainees", and that wouldn't be nice of us.

I would be very interested to hear your "clever alternatives"!

 

[California Girl]

But if they've never eaten bacon (pork), how would they know that's what it was? Nah, I'm sure shit like that was tried anyway. And they're even on to waterboarding by now, knowing they won't actually be allowed to die. I'm just trying to think of clever alternatives. Not that my intent is to bring up the entire debate ... again ... I just overheard the radiation technique described this morning as "...worse than waterboarding..." and I thought it's probably true.

Oh, I can give you plenty of "clever alternatives"; tested, effective, essentially physically harmless and absolutely non-lethal; the problem is, we can't use any of them anymore, because that might be "torturing" the poor terrorists, ah, I mean, "detainees", and that wouldn't be nice of us.

I would be very interested to hear your "clever alternatives"!

If we leave it to the left wingers, it'll be a latte at starbucks and a nice chat.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So you support waterboarding?

I do.

They are not prisoners of war and are not covered by the convention.

They are murderers and as non-citizens should not be afforded our rights.

For those that oppose it.

Ask yourself what you would do if some of them had your kids but you had someone that knew where she was, but wasn't talking.

I would wonder, if the person would say whatever he thought would stop the torture. We know now that's exactly what happened, even with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. How many wild goose chases did the CIA engage in because of his lies? Why did the CIA destroy all the videos of the waterboarding?

Waterboarding helped get Osama and many other terrorist.

A few dead ends were worth that to me.

And the idea of saying anything to stop it is false. Since they can come back and inform you that you lied and are upset that you lied.

 

[MaggieMae]

So you support waterboarding?

I think its barbaric. There are many other more useful methods.

No more barbaric than, say, faking radiation poisoning, or raping some innocent Muslim woman. No, definitely not more barbaric than those options.

The difference is there's no chance the radiation (at least from this particular machine, which is designed to target only cancer cells) will kill anyone, but there is a chance that the person being waterboarded will really drown. Showing pictures or videos of Muslim women getting raped isn't the same as actually dragging one into the interrogation room and going through it live.

Can I assume you don't go along with torture at all?

 

[MaggieMae]

Find their greatest fear then present them with it.

For example . . . with me it wouldn't take much 'spider threatening' to get me to squeal.

I agree. (Hate to scare you even more, but did you know that you're never more than six feet away from a spider?)

 

[MaggieMae]

Oh, I can give you plenty of "clever alternatives"; tested, effective, essentially physically harmless and absolutely non-lethal; the problem is, we can't use any of them anymore, because that might be "torturing" the poor terrorists, ah, I mean, "detainees", and that wouldn't be nice of us.

I would be very interested to hear your "clever alternatives"!

If we leave it to the left wingers, it'll be a latte at starbucks and a nice chat.

Ironically, books have been written that a "friendly" approach often is key to getting the information needed. (By professionals, of course.) As the old adage goes, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[MaggieMae]

I do.

They are not prisoners of war and are not covered by the convention.

They are murderers and as non-citizens should not be afforded our rights.

For those that oppose it.

Ask yourself what you would do if some of them had your kids but you had someone that knew where she was, but wasn't talking.

I would wonder, if the person would say whatever he thought would stop the torture. We know now that's exactly what happened, even with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. How many wild goose chases did the CIA engage in because of his lies? Why did the CIA destroy all the videos of the waterboarding?

Waterboarding helped get Osama and many other terrorist.

A few dead ends were worth that to me.

And the idea of saying anything to stop it is false. Since they can come back and inform you that you lied and are upset that you lied.

I don't think that courier the CIA followed for months was ever waterboarded. The suspicion was all along that after Tora Bora when bin Laden escaped through the mountains into Pakistan, he stayed there. It was simply a matter of closely observing the regular comings and goings to specific areas by specific people.

 

[hjmick]

Torture is torture.

There was a time when I, naively, believed we as a nation were above using torture, and perhaps there was a time when we were. Sadly, it is apparent that we are not...

 

[IndependntLogic]

I do.

They are not prisoners of war and are not covered by the convention.

They are murderers and as non-citizens should not be afforded our rights.

For those that oppose it.

Ask yourself what you would do if some of them had your kids but you had someone that knew where she was, but wasn't talking.

I would wonder, if the person would say whatever he thought would stop the torture. We know now that's exactly what happened, even with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. How many wild goose chases did the CIA engage in because of his lies? Why did the CIA destroy all the videos of the waterboarding?

Waterboarding helped get Osama and many other terrorist.

A few dead ends were worth that to me.

And the idea of saying anything to stop it is false. Since they can come back and inform you that you lied and are upset that you lied.

Water-boarding had nothing to do with OBL. Zero. I know that that was reported for a while and I remember laughing to myself when I first saw it on FOX. The other stations did a pretty good job of clarifying that well oops, no, that wasn't the case. FOX did clraify this - one time at 3am on a Sunday

BTW, I'm all for Advanced Interrogation Techniques but water-boarding doesn't fall under the category of "advanced". It falls under the category of "stupid".

 

[IndependntLogic]

Torture is torture.

There was a time when I, naively, believed we as a nation were above using torture, and perhaps there was a time when we were. Sadly, it is apparent that we are not...

Regardless of their public face, every major country in the world has always used torture. This includes the USA which used torture before it officially became the USA.

That being said, the countries whose government are considered "moral" or "good" - at least by their own citizens, does this clandestinely and only under the most extreme conditions. This equates to an average of 1:2,000 captives - although it can be slightly higher, depending on conditions.
There are two factors that are relatively new, as far as the USA goes.
1. We've known for almost a hundred years that physical methods are the least effective and if something is time-critical, actually COUNTER to gaining accurate intel.
2. The Geneva Convention was written under conditions that assumed there soldiers in uniform who fought for their countries and that the goal of spies was to impede the success of political wars. Terrorist are not in uniform, they represent no country and they intentionally and specifically target areas with civilians - preferably women and children. According to the Geneva Convention, captors cannot even show disrepect for them: They are to be treated as "honored guests". Not applicable.
So IF:
you have subject confirmation
you know the subject is in the cell or has direct knowledge
you have then confirmed time criticality

THEN:

Advanced Interrogation Techniqes should be used. That's not water-boarding.