american healthcare vs british healthcare and socialism

[hunter10]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

 

[hboats]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Do you know the difference between communism and socialism? What most conservatives find socialistic about this health care bill is the fact that every American will be required to now have health insurance, weather or not they want it, or face a fine. That is socialistic.

There was not a system in America that allowed people to die for lack of health insurance. There are any number of options for someone without insurance to take advantage of in this country. The problem is, people either don't know what they're talking about when they say that, or people are too proud to admit that they need to use these programs.

You might want to fix some of the flaws in your argument in order to get any kind of reasonable response.

Rick

 

[California Girl]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Yes, we are aware of the service in Canada. Yes, we are aware of yours. No, you are not our closest alley. You were - but Obama doesn't rate the Brits much.

No, it doesn't make you 'communist', nor do we claim that your NHS is communist, we call it what it is.... socialist.

We are not you. Kindly mind your own fucking business. Don't like the way we run our country.... fine, don't come here. Stay in your own fucking country.

 

[RDD_1210]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Yes, we are aware of the service in Canada. Yes, we are aware of yours. No, you are not our closest alley. You were - but Obama doesn't rate the Brits much.

No, it doesn't make you 'communist', nor do we claim that your NHS is communist, we call it what it is.... socialist.

We are not you. Kindly mind your own fucking business. Don't like the way we run our country.... fine, don't come here. Stay in your own fucking country.

You might be, the angriest most hateful person on this forum. What are you so angry about? Get outside and enjoy the world a bit, it might do you some good.

 

[California Girl]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Yes, we are aware of the service in Canada. Yes, we are aware of yours. No, you are not our closest alley. You were - but Obama doesn't rate the Brits much.

No, it doesn't make you 'communist', nor do we claim that your NHS is communist, we call it what it is.... socialist.

We are not you. Kindly mind your own fucking business. Don't like the way we run our country.... fine, don't come here. Stay in your own fucking country.

You might be, the angriest most hateful person on this forum. What are you so angry about? Get outside and enjoy the world a bit, it might do you some good.

Here's an idea.... mind your own fucking business.

 

[RDD_1210]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Conservatives here are too worried that somehow providing healthcare to all citizens somehow robs them of their personal freedoms. Their new favorite complaint is that they are being "forced" to buy insurance which violates some sort of right. Yet, that requirement to have to buy insurance, is being insisted upon by the insurance companies themselves.....the same insurance companies the conservatives are so concerned about protecting. It really doesn't make sense when you step back and take a look at it.

 

[RDD_1210]

Yes, we are aware of the service in Canada. Yes, we are aware of yours. No, you are not our closest alley. You were - but Obama doesn't rate the Brits much.

No, it doesn't make you 'communist', nor do we claim that your NHS is communist, we call it what it is.... socialist.

We are not you. Kindly mind your own fucking business. Don't like the way we run our country.... fine, don't come here. Stay in your own fucking country.

You might be, the angriest most hateful person on this forum. What are you so angry about? Get outside and enjoy the world a bit, it might do you some good.

Here's an idea.... mind your own fucking business.

This is a public message board and I am allowed my freedom of speech...it's my god given right.

I'm not use to throwing around the whole I'm allowed my freedom of speech thing that repubs love to do....how did I do?

 

[hboats]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Conservatives here are too worried that somehow providing healthcare to all citizens somehow robs them of their personal freedoms. Their new favorite complaint is that they are being "forced" to buy insurance which violates some sort of right. Yet, that requirement to have to buy insurance, is being insisted upon by the insurance companies themselves.....the same insurance companies the conservatives are so concerned about protecting. It really doesn't make sense when you step back and take a look at it.

Wait? You're telling me the insurance companies crammed this B.S. bill down our throats, and not the Democrats? Great, then it's null and void. Thanks for enlightening me.

Sarcasm off.

Give me a break, you're saying that making every citizen have health insurance is not taking away personal freedom? Sorry, but you're wrong.

Maybe you should look at my response to the OP and try to debate in an honest fashion instead of making things up that suit your false conceptions of what conservatives are worried about.

Rick

 

[California Girl]

You might be, the angriest most hateful person on this forum. What are you so angry about? Get outside and enjoy the world a bit, it might do you some good.

Here's an idea.... mind your own fucking business.

This is a public message board and I am allowed my freedom of speech...it's my god given right.

I'm not use to throwing around the whole I'm allowed my freedom of speech thing that repubs love to do....how did I do?

It is indeed your right.... but your right does not extend to telling me what to do. You will notice, I did NOT take away your right to speak - I didn't say 'shut the fuck up'. I told you to mind your own business. That is a conservative thing - I mind my business - and you mind yours. You don't get to tell me to 'get outside and enjoy the world' because my life is not your business. So, again, MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS and stop whining.

 

[RDD_1210]

i will say that here in britain we actually find it pretty amusing how the conservatives in america keep wailing about how obama is communist for wanting universal healthcare, dont u guys realize that ur neigbour canada and ur closest ally britain also have universal healthcare and does that make us communist. Not to mention new zealand and australia i find it amazing that in america people are okay with a system that allows peole to become bankrupt or die simply because they cannot afford to pay for insurance. after reading the article i would like to read peoples thoughts regarding which system is better

This American’s Experience of Britain’s Healthcare System Potential and Expectations

Conservatives here are too worried that somehow providing healthcare to all citizens somehow robs them of their personal freedoms. Their new favorite complaint is that they are being "forced" to buy insurance which violates some sort of right. Yet, that requirement to have to buy insurance, is being insisted upon by the insurance companies themselves.....the same insurance companies the conservatives are so concerned about protecting. It really doesn't make sense when you step back and take a look at it.

Wait? You're telling me the insurance companies crammed this B.S. bill down our throats, and not the Democrats? Great, then it's null and void. Thanks for enlightening me.

Sarcasm off.

Give me a break, you're saying that making every citizen have health insurance is not taking away personal freedom? Sorry, but you're wrong.

Maybe you should look at my response to the OP and try to debate in an honest fashion instead of making things up that suit your false conceptions of what conservatives are worried about.

Rick

No, I said the mandate that requires everyone to have insurance was put in by insurance companies, I never said anything beyond that. Don't change what I said.

Now, if you'd like me to address your first post, sure. Let's start with this.

There was not a system in America that allowed people to die for lack of health insurance. There are any number of options for someone without insurance to take advantage of in this country. The problem is, people either don't know what they're talking about when they say that, or people are too proud to admit that they need to use these programs.

Please explain to me the current options for people who do not have insurance. How do they get the proper medical care they need and how is it paid for?

 

[RDD_1210]

Here's an idea.... mind your own fucking business.

This is a public message board and I am allowed my freedom of speech...it's my god given right.

I'm not use to throwing around the whole I'm allowed my freedom of speech thing that repubs love to do....how did I do?

It is indeed your right.... but your right does not extend to telling me what to do. You will notice, I did NOT take away your right to speak - I didn't say 'shut the fuck up'. I told you to mind your own business. That is a conservative thing - I mind my business - and you mind yours. You don't get to tell me to 'get outside and enjoy the world' because my life is not your business. So, again, MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS and stop whining.

Ahh, well thanks for clearing that up for me. Well feel free to go back to hating the world. (Notice I gave you the option, it's totally your choice, certainly not mine).

 

[hboats]

Conservatives here are too worried that somehow providing healthcare to all citizens somehow robs them of their personal freedoms. Their new favorite complaint is that they are being "forced" to buy insurance which violates some sort of right. Yet, that requirement to have to buy insurance, is being insisted upon by the insurance companies themselves.....the same insurance companies the conservatives are so concerned about protecting. It really doesn't make sense when you step back and take a look at it.

Wait? You're telling me the insurance companies crammed this B.S. bill down our throats, and not the Democrats? Great, then it's null and void. Thanks for enlightening me.

Sarcasm off.

Give me a break, you're saying that making every citizen have health insurance is not taking away personal freedom? Sorry, but you're wrong.

Maybe you should look at my response to the OP and try to debate in an honest fashion instead of making things up that suit your false conceptions of what conservatives are worried about.

Rick

No, I said the mandate that requires everyone to have insurance was put in by insurance companies, I never said anything beyond that. Don't change what I said.

Now, if you'd like me to address your first post, sure. Let's start with this.

There was not a system in America that allowed people to die for lack of health insurance. There are any number of options for someone without insurance to take advantage of in this country. The problem is, people either don't know what they're talking about when they say that, or people are too proud to admit that they need to use these programs.

Please explain to me the current options for people who do not have insurance. How do they get the proper medical care they need and how is it paid for?

Believe me, I can easily see how you wouldn't know about it by the media and Democrats, but you're trying to tell me that outside of those two sources you don't know how someone without health insurance can receive medical care?

Do you know what County Hospitals are? Do you know that they CAN NOT turn anyone away? Do you know that if you can't afford to pay a County Hospital bill then you don't have to pay it? Have you ever heard of a free clinic? There are also other programs for major illnesses that people can take advantage of. Did you know that you can petition your state for access to medical care if you can't afford it?

The whole premise by Democrats and the media that people without health insurance are dying for lack of medical care is pure nonsense.

Rick

 

[RDD_1210]

Wait? You're telling me the insurance companies crammed this B.S. bill down our throats, and not the Democrats? Great, then it's null and void. Thanks for enlightening me.

Sarcasm off.

Give me a break, you're saying that making every citizen have health insurance is not taking away personal freedom? Sorry, but you're wrong.

Maybe you should look at my response to the OP and try to debate in an honest fashion instead of making things up that suit your false conceptions of what conservatives are worried about.

Rick

No, I said the mandate that requires everyone to have insurance was put in by insurance companies, I never said anything beyond that. Don't change what I said.

Now, if you'd like me to address your first post, sure. Let's start with this.

There was not a system in America that allowed people to die for lack of health insurance. There are any number of options for someone without insurance to take advantage of in this country. The problem is, people either don't know what they're talking about when they say that, or people are too proud to admit that they need to use these programs.

Please explain to me the current options for people who do not have insurance. How do they get the proper medical care they need and how is it paid for?

Believe me, I can easily see how you wouldn't know about it by the media and Democrats, but you're trying to tell me that outside of those two sources you don't know how someone without health insurance can receive medical care?

Do you know what County Hospitals are? Do you know that they CAN NOT turn anyone away? Do you know that if you can't afford to pay a County Hospital bill then you don't have to pay it? Have you ever heard of a free clinic? There are also other programs for major illnesses that people can take advantage of. Did you know that you can petition your state for access to medical care if you can't afford it?


Rick

You are absolutely right. Hospitals cannot turn people away who don't have insurance. You will not get any arguments from me on that. Now tell me this.....when someone gets this "free" treatment at a hospital or clinic, who is actually paying for it? Does the hospital absorb the cost, does the insurance companies just write it off out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[hboats]

No, I said the mandate that requires everyone to have insurance was put in by insurance companies, I never said anything beyond that. Don't change what I said.

Now, if you'd like me to address your first post, sure. Let's start with this.


Please explain to me the current options for people who do not have insurance. How do they get the proper medical care they need and how is it paid for?

Believe me, I can easily see how you wouldn't know about it by the media and Democrats, but you're trying to tell me that outside of those two sources you don't know how someone without health insurance can receive medical care?

Do you know what County Hospitals are? Do you know that they CAN NOT turn anyone away? Do you know that if you can't afford to pay a County Hospital bill then you don't have to pay it? Have you ever heard of a free clinic? There are also other programs for major illnesses that people can take advantage of. Did you know that you can petition your state for access to medical care if you can't afford it?


Rick

You are absolutely right. Hospitals cannot turn people away who don't have insurance. You will not get any arguments from me on that. Now tell me this.....when someone gets this "free" treatment at a hospital or clinic, who is actually paying for it? Does the hospital absorb the cost, does the insurance companies just write it off out of the goodness of their hearts?

It's right there in the title of the hospital. County Hospitals are supported by local/county taxes. And at a far cheaper rate that what this health care cluster f*** is going to cost us.

Rick

 

[RDD_1210]

Believe me, I can easily see how you wouldn't know about it by the media and Democrats, but you're trying to tell me that outside of those two sources you don't know how someone without health insurance can receive medical care?

Do you know what County Hospitals are? Do you know that they CAN NOT turn anyone away? Do you know that if you can't afford to pay a County Hospital bill then you don't have to pay it? Have you ever heard of a free clinic? There are also other programs for major illnesses that people can take advantage of. Did you know that you can petition your state for access to medical care if you can't afford it?


Rick

You are absolutely right. Hospitals cannot turn people away who don't have insurance. You will not get any arguments from me on that. Now tell me this.....when someone gets this "free" treatment at a hospital or clinic, who is actually paying for it? Does the hospital absorb the cost, does the insurance companies just write it off out of the goodness of their hearts?

It's right there in the title of the hospital. County Hospitals are supported by local/county taxes. And at a far cheaper rate that what this health care cluster f*** is going to cost us.

Rick

So you're saying that the government funded hospitals that you are paying for with your taxes provides far cheaper health care?

Thanks for proving my point. That was actually easier then I thought it would be.

Does that mean you're pro "socialism" now?

 

[hboats]

You are absolutely right. Hospitals cannot turn people away who don't have insurance. You will not get any arguments from me on that. Now tell me this.....when someone gets this "free" treatment at a hospital or clinic, who is actually paying for it? Does the hospital absorb the cost, does the insurance companies just write it off out of the goodness of their hearts?

It's right there in the title of the hospital. County Hospitals are supported by local/county taxes. And at a far cheaper rate that what this health care cluster f*** is going to cost us.

Rick

So you're saying that the government funded hospitals that you are paying for with your taxes provides far cheaper health care?

Thanks for proving my point. That was actually easier then I thought it would be.

Does that mean you're pro "socialism" now?

Did I say government funded? No, I said TAXPAYER FUNDED. There is a difference, do you not see that? The government doesn't run County Hospitals, the county does.

Once again, you're confused as to what socialism is. Socialism isn't having tax funded programs that benefit people, socialism is REQUIRING every citizen to purchase something that some of them may not want. There is a HUGE difference, and if you don't know that then there really is no hope for you to ever open your eyes.

Rick

 

[RDD_1210]

It's right there in the title of the hospital. County Hospitals are supported by local/county taxes. And at a far cheaper rate that what this health care cluster f*** is going to cost us.

Rick

So you're saying that the government funded hospitals that you are paying for with your taxes provides far cheaper health care?

Thanks for proving my point. That was actually easier then I thought it would be.

Does that mean you're pro "socialism" now?

Did I say government funded? No, I said TAXPAYER FUNDED. There is a difference, do you not see that? The government doesn't run County Hospitals, the county does.

Seriously? So lets go real slow with this so you don't get confused. Taxpayers, pay their taxes to who? ........The government. (whether its local or federal, thats still government). The government (in this case local) pays for the hospital. Uninsured person gets "free" treatment. Which is in reality not free, since we're all paying taxes to support it, just like our police department, fire department, schools, roads, etc...

So, since you seem to be already ok with "free" healthcare supported by your taxes, what is the problem with making this happen nationwide?

 

[hboats]

I can see that we're in need of a little civics lesson here, so I'll attempt to clear it up a little bit.

There is a difference between Government funded and Taxpayer funded.

Government funded programs are included in the government's budget. In other words, the government takes in taxes according to their budget and disperses those funds according to their budget. (At least that's the way it's supposed to work, but when has the government ever actually stuck to a budget.) In a government funded program the taxpayer has no say in how that money is received (in taxes) or dispersed. The government can raise and lower those taxes without taxpayers having a say by voting. That is the major difference.

Taxpayer funded programs are a completely different animal. You pay for these through county taxes and property taxes. These are voted on by the taxpayer as a referendum. They are proposed by the county elected officials or the group who would like to use the tax revenues, and then the taxpayer has the opportunity to vote on the referendum. The taxpayer has the say in taxpayer funded programs, they do not in government funded programs.

Rick

 

[hboats]

So you're saying that the government funded hospitals that you are paying for with your taxes provides far cheaper health care?

Thanks for proving my point. That was actually easier then I thought it would be.

Does that mean you're pro "socialism" now?

Did I say government funded? No, I said TAXPAYER FUNDED. There is a difference, do you not see that? The government doesn't run County Hospitals, the county does.

Seriously? So lets go real slow with this so you don't get confused. Taxpayers, pay their taxes to who? ........The government. (whether its local or federal, thats still government). The government (in this case local) pays for the hospital. Uninsured person gets "free" treatment. Which is in reality not free, since we're all paying taxes to support it, just like our police department, fire department, schools, roads, etc...

So, since you seem to be already ok with "free" healthcare supported by your taxes, what is the problem with making this happen nationwide?

Please see my previous post for the MAJOR difference between government funded and taxpayer funded. They are not even close to the same thing, and if you believe they are you are completely wrong.

Rick

 

[antagon]

free is about the only thing working in favor of the NHS. that factor is not working in favor of great britain, which is struggling to pay for the cost and further compromising service to compensate. having had brushes with both systems, there is no doubt that private or public care in the states is far superior in standard and delivery to those offered by the NHS. the NHS continues to narrow its offering to brits, while the US care model drives innovation in care and treatment... just like the private hospitals in england.

conservative and liberal politics, just like the UK, differ on the extents which the government involves itself in public life. republican conservatism has morphed into an argument of where and how, rather than how much the government will be involved, proving that they can spend and expand government in their own right. the socialist/communist bit are appeals to ignorance, just like the term 'fair' so appeals when it was flung around the latest UK election extravaganza.

our countries are different, but there's no reason to be aloof as to what is being implied with respect to healthcare or many other topics. that shit is playing itself out in england from what ive been able to see.