Abu Ghraib...it echoes still

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Bullypulpit, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    <blockquote>"...the fact is that we violated the laws of land warfare in Abu Ghraib. We violated the tenets of the Geneva Convention. We violated our own principles and we violated the core of our military values. The stress of combat is not an excuse, and I believe, even today, that those civilian and military leaders responsible should be held accountable.” - <a href=http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh?printable=true>Maj. Gen.(Ret.) Antonio Taguba</a></blockquote>

    So concludes General Taguba in <i>The New Yorker</i>. An honorable man thrust by circumstance into an investigation that continues to come back and bite the Bush administration in the ass long after they thought it dead. And to this date, none of those responsible for the crimes and abuses at Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere, have answered for their actions. Actions which, like a purlent infection, spread from GITMO to Iraq.

    The sad fact of the matter is that the only one officer stands to be tried for the events at Abu Ghraib in August, and the only others that have been convicted were the enlisted folks that were thrown under the bus to keep those higher up the chain of command clear of any blame.

    Further investigations by C.I.D. officers have been deemed a dead end because they are denied security clearances needed to access the records and personnel, many of whom operated under false names, needed to successfully conduct an investigation. But it wouldn't be the first time the Bush administration has used the excuse of "national security" to obstruct an investigation into investigations into its activities. Remember Chimpy's little domestic spying operation that got blown open last year? <a href=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12727867/from/RSS/>The NSA denied investigators from the OPR the security clearances</a> they needed to conduct their investigation into that, compared to the horrors of Abu Ghraib, minor bit of skull-duggery.

    General Taguba was thrown under the bus because he refused to remain silent in the face of gross abuses of human rights under US law, treaty and international law. As we know by this point, the rule of law means little more to this administration than an impediment to its pursuit of unrestricted power.
     
  2. Truthmatters
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    Make him head of an investigation and then throw him under the bus for doing an honest investigation.

    This admin hates it when people are honest and efficient.
     
  3. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    Sure it echoes still. It's got parrots like you and TM that just keep bringing it up, over and over, to no REAL purpose other than to point your grimey little meatbeaters at the administration.
     
  4. Truthmatters
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    Karpinski and Tuguba ring a bell?

    its in the current news.

    I know you would perfer the news not report things that hurt your president but hey its America.
     
  5. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    I didn't bring it up, Antonio Taguba did. He served his country honorably and had is career destroyed for it. Come to think of it, so did Eric Shinseki, and just about anyone else who disagreed with, or contradicted the Bush administration.

    Just because you can't accept the utter criminality of the Bush administration with out suffering a cognitive and existential melt-down is your problem, not mine. While you're at it, why don't you follow the link and actually READ the article.
     
  6. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    You just aren't very bright, are you? For one thing, the President of the US is YOUR President too. About time you got over it.

    Second, Abu Ghraib doesn't really hurt the President. It hurts the US military, and the US, because of the propaganda it provides. What's even worse, it's YOU leftwingnuts providing the enemy with the propaganda.

    The fact is, Abu Ghraib was an isolated incident, carried out by a few individuals, that you lefties and your ever-willing conspirators have turned into something way beyond anything it's worth.
     
  7. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    I think we already had this debate last week. Guess you weren't around. Tagabu's statements are unsubstantiated OPINIONS. That of course, makes them no more or less credible than the former SecDef's.

    The SOLE reason you give them credence at all is because he's pointing a finger at the administration, and you'll hop each and every time someone does.

    When Tagabu can provide more than his uncorroborated word as evidence this oped has no basis in fact. Just one disgruntled employee's attempt to lash out at his former employer.
     
  8. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    Tch...Tch...Tch...Getting a bit testy, aren't we. If Bush and his administration had a shred of integrity or credibility, I would give them the benefit of the doubt. But they don't, so I won't. I'll take Taguba's word, and that of the other retired generals who served in Iraq and have raised their voice in condemnation of the administration and it's disasterous policies over that of this administration any day.
     
  9. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    In other words, you have nothing to back your stance but your opinion?

    I'm not touchy about Bush-bashing. It's all we've suffered through for 6+ years from you leftwing soundboxes.

    I'm DISGUSTED that you lefties put being a partisan hack ahead of being an American and providing OUR enemy with propaganda by blowing this shit so far out of proprotion it isn't funny.

    You're in the military (or were) ... so you KNOW there are criminals in the military same as the civilian world and they commit crimes every day. You also know that 6 National Guardsmen are HARDLY representative of the military as whole.

    Were YOU ever taught it was okay to violate the Law of War and/or UCMJ? I seriously doubt it. These criminals violated the law and were punished. It's over. DO try and get over it, or get some new talking points.
     
  10. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    What facts are you attempting to dispute?

    That Maj Gen Geoffrey Miller's, formerly commander at GITMO, approach to the interrogation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib "was not consistent with Army doctrine"?

    Lt. Col. Steven Jordan is the only officer charged with crimes in this matter?

    That few of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib during this period had ANY affiliation with ANY terrorist organization?

    That Maj Gen Taguba was prevented from investigating further up the chain of command?

    That Maj Gen Taguba was discouraged every step of the way in his investigation?

    That the response from those in, and up, the chain of command was "They're just Iraqis..."?

    You're the one who needs to rely on something other than opinion, old son. The Administration talking points are more than a little threadbare at this point. If anyone has provided our enemies with propaganda, it is the Bush administration in its intransigent assertion that it stands above the law and is a law unto itself.
     

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