A sin of ommission?

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by Bullypulpit, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    First is was the the failure of the Obama administration to begin investigations of war crimes under the Bush administration. You remember...water-boarding, stress positions, torture. Then it was the request for dismissal of Jewel v. NSA. Then it's this...Obama to Appeal Detainee Ruling

    Now we have...


    While it's all well and good that the Obama administration released the memos which provided the Bush administration's legal framework for torture, neither he nor anyone else in his administration can make the decision. Under the UN conventions Against Torture, the US is committed to making torture a crime and prosecuting those who engage in it. It is not an option under US law or treaty obligation. The obama administration must follow the evidence wherever , and to whomever, it may lead. Failure to do so is nothing less than complicity in the crime of torture.
     
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  2. garyd
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    garyd Senior Member

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    First you have to decide if it was or was not torture ... I didn't see anything I thought rose to the level of torture.
     
  3. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    US and international law have already settled the matter...Water-boarding is torture. You'll get nowhere dredging up that right-wing talking point.
     
  4. garyd
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    garyd Senior Member

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    Depends on how you do it. The version that was in play when the decision was made is not how we do it.
     
  5. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    Cool ... for once when a Democrat voted into office screws up by opposing Democrat ideals I can say ...

    ... At least I didn't vote for the moron.

    You know, that actually feels good.

    What I don't get is that he isn't really making a mistake with this one. You can't prosecute someone for a crime after the fact. It was permitted by the previous administration and there were no laws in effect that they actually broke. While I don't agree it should have been permitted on moral issues, by the laws there was nothing to stop them. It fell within the limits of interrogation at the time, so persecuting them by law is just impossible and wrong. Again I contend, what they should do is look at the current laws and make changes to prevent it if they don't want it happening again, put it to a vote, if the new law passes then go after anyone at that point on.
     
  6. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    The Nuremberg defense, " I was just following orders..." was thoroughly discredited at the Nuremberg trials. US law was not changed to comport with the decisions in these documents nor did the US withdraw from the treaty obligations which require prosecution of those who authorize, and engage in, torture. It was just as illegal during the Bush administration as it was before and after. No amount of shoddy legal reasoning can trump the law in this matter.
     
  7. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    The New United States' Policies and Procedures
    Manual on Interrogation and Intelligence Gathering



    All policies and procedures in this memo must be followed to the letter. Violators of any of the following procedures will result in incarceration and summary judgment and conviction.

    All persons of foreign citizenship to be questioned by any agent of the United States of America must first be presented with a written invitation to participate in the investigatory process.

    If the invitation is accepted, the participant shall be visited by a hospitality party comprised of one representative of a United State's agency, for example the CIA or FBI, and one human rights official from every other country on the planet.

    All members of the hospitality party and our invitee will be conveyed by limousine, not military or otherwise identifiably government vehicles so as not to be stigmatized by being perceived as a criminal.

    If conveyance out of the invitee's home country is necessary, transportation will be by private jet and all efforts will be made to ensure the comfort of the invitee. A personal staff, including, 25 attorneys, a personal secretary, chef, physician, masseuse, and personal trainer will be provided and will be on call 24 hours a day.

    The invitee will be held in suite at a 5 star resort with no less than 5 rooms and a hot tub. The remainder of the hospitality party will be provided similar but slightly lesser accommodations in the same hotel or another not more than 5 miles away.

    The interrogation schedule will be coordinated with the invitee's personal secretary and all possible efforts will be made to accommodate the invitee's needs and wants.

    All questions asked by an agent of the United States must begin with "Please, Esteemed and Honorable, Sir" And the invitee must be thanked at least 5 times for any response to a question.

    The invitee can at any time call a temporary halt or an indefinite delay to all interrogation. Until such time as the invitee wishes to resume interrogation, every effort humanly possible will be made to ensure his comfort and feeling of safety and well being.

    Any variation from this procedure by an agent of the United States will result in an immediate conviction sans trial on charges of violation of the civil rights of and hate crimes toward the invitee and the agent will be summarily executed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009
  8. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    So, what's yer point? I mean besides showing just how much of a right wing tool you are with a really bad attempt at ironic juxtaposition...
     
  9. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    My point is, fuck stick, that the government will do whatever it deems necessary to get the information it wants. Just because a fucking politician says something does not make it true.

    And I don't believe you've had sufficient discourse with me to label me as a right winger.

    FYI you're wrong in making that assumption.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009
  10. alan1
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    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

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    He certainly can, and he did.
    Call it a "Presidential Pardon".
     

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