A serious question for atheists.

[rightwinger]

Why does God demand worship?

Is he that insecure?

 

[guno]

 

[Two Thumbs]

mass murder of babies b/c their parents are assholes is pure evil

if not, then any religious stance against abortion is wrong

if there is a god, he's a scientist using lower life forms in some kooky experiment.

 

[rightwinger]

mass murder of babies b/c their parents are assholes is pure evil

if not, then any religious stance against abortion is wrong

if there is a god, he's a scientist using lower life forms in some kooky experiment.

God killed the first born of Egypt

Isn't that the mass murder of babies?

 

[Two Thumbs]

mass murder of babies b/c their parents are assholes is pure evil

if not, then any religious stance against abortion is wrong

if there is a god, he's a scientist using lower life forms in some kooky experiment.

God killed the first born of Egypt

Isn't that the mass murder of babies?

only the ones that were babies


if you were a 50 y/o grandfather, you were dead if you were the fist born.


jewish god is a ruthless prick that plays favorites

really, if there was a god, why would anyone not want to be a jew?

 

[Meriweather]

For me the question is why pick and choose various parts of the bibles? Is that just for conveniences sake.

Isn't that what you are doing? You choose a scripture passage that you believe portrays God in the light in which you see Him, add your interpretation of the information presented, and then present it as the "real" truth.

For those of us who study not only the Bible, but also the history, culture, context, language--and additional scientific facts that may have emerged since the original accounts--a different picture emerges.

Many today are convinced that they have been lied to about God, or have reached conclusions that Scripture itself describes an evil God. They proof-text passage after passage they believe can be interpreted to show God in an evil light. Why? Because everyone (both you and me included) are interested in the truth.

Scripture states that God loves, that God is love. If we start from that premise, that foundation, then we begin with a different context from those who start with the premise there is no God, or that God is uncaring or evil.

My main criticism of religion and of people who believe and even practice a religion is that we do not focus nearly enough on the love of God. We seem to bounce off that concept into concepts of punishment or banishment. People--even those who love God--seem more attentive/fascinated by what if love fails than the reality that God's love will not fail.

People try to scare people into religion/pursuit of God, rather than invite them and draw them into the love of God. Our greatest obstacle is not those who have no belief in God. The greatest obstacle are those who either fear God's love will fail, or those who try to install a fear that we/some are beyond reach of God's love.

 

[Meriweather]

Why does God demand worship?

Is he that insecure?

Once again, the wording in the Commandment is to love God who loves us.

 

[orogenicman]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

A belligerent, arrogant mass murderer like that? No. But since most of the Bible is mythology, your question is meaningless. If I could prove to you that most of the Bible is fiction, would you still worship your god?

 

[Meriweather]

God killed the first born of Egypt

Isn't that the mass murder of babies?

Not necessarily. It has been hypothesized that this plague was an infestation in the grain/cereal. As the first born (adult head of the house) was served first/most, it follows that they would be most adversely affected.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

Have reasoned why there's no evidence or proof of God's existence.

(takes big deep breath)

If we had irrefutable proof of God, we'd only be worshipping him out of fear and self-interest. We'd obey and submit to God's authority because not doing so would be BAD for us. Plus, the Exodus Jews had this proof, and it didn't help them very much. They bitched and complained to Moses crossing the desert with incessant, "Are we there yet? It's hot out here. I'm hungry. I'm bored."

I've considered the surest proof God exists is there is no proof. If there were we wouldn't love GOd, we'd simply be terrified of God. That's not what a good parent-figure wants of their children. Might help with certain problems, but not overall since eventually children grow up and assume the role of parent themselves. If they remain children their whole lives and never take up the role of parent, they remain childish and don't do the things God wants us to do. Like evolve, develop, build massive communities that get along (reaosnably) with each other and all that stuff.

 

[SpinDr79]

For me the question is why pick and choose various parts of the bibles? Is that just for conveniences sake.

Isn't that what you are doing? You choose a scripture passage that you believe portrays God in the light in which you see Him, add your interpretation of the information presented, and then present it as the "real" truth.

For those of us who study not only the Bible, but also the history, culture, context, language--and additional scientific facts that may have emerged since the original accounts--a different picture emerges.

Many today are convinced that they have been lied to about God, or have reached conclusions that Scripture itself describes an evil God. They proof-text passage after passage they believe can be interpreted to show God in an evil light. Why? Because everyone (both you and me included) are interested in the truth.

Scripture states that God loves, that God is love. If we start from that premise, that foundation, then we begin with a different context from those who start with the premise there is no God, or that God is uncaring or evil.

My main criticism of religion and of people who believe and even practice a religion is that we do not focus nearly enough on the love of God. We seem to bounce off that concept into concepts of punishment or banishment. People--even those who love God--seem more attentive/fascinated by what if love fails than the reality that God's love will not fail.

People try to scare people into religion/pursuit of God, rather than invite them and draw them into the love of God. Our greatest obstacle is not those who have no belief in God. The greatest obstacle are those who either fear God's love will fail, or those who try to install a fear that we/some are beyond reach of God's love.

Ok so the fear tactic has proven to be the most effective in growing one's religion. Jews do not believe in an eternal Hell of fire and brimstone. As Christianity grew off of Judaism like a cancer it was because of the focus on telling people they will go to hell forever and burn if they do not believe. The ignorant masses abided out of self-preservation. This approach has always appealed to people more than "god loves you so please love him back and believe in him." We can see in contemporary times with the Islamic scripture fanatic literalists how easy humans can be to control by using fear. Their scripture literally says men are superior to women, you must cut off one's arms for stealing, etc. Every major religion and political group for that matter has used fear, the most powerful tool in controlling the masses, as it has proven time and time again to be the most effective. It's hilarious but scary that an agnostic can simply doubt based on the laws of nature and biblical contradiction to objective reality and he's the one being prosecuted because others are afraid to hop on the science bandwagon that is moving with the times while religion is left in the past.

 

[Mr.Right]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

A belligerent, arrogant mass murderer like that? No. But since most of the Bible is mythology, your question is meaningless. If I could prove to you that most of the Bible is fiction, would you still worship your god?

Better men than you have tried to discredit the Bible...and failed. So your question is meaningless.

 

[alan1]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

No.

If it was proven that god doesn't exist would you worship him? (I expect a one word answer to the question)

 

[orogenicman]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

A belligerent, arrogant mass murderer like that? No. But since most of the Bible is mythology, your question is meaningless. If I could prove to you that most of the Bible is fiction, would you still worship your god?

Better men than you have tried to discredit the Bible...and failed. So your question is meaningless.

Indicating that it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

 

[Mr.Right]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

No.

If it was proven that god doesn't exist would you worship him? (I expect a one word answer to the question)

Read your question again. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[rightwinger]

Why does God demand worship?

Is he that insecure?

Once again, the wording in the Commandment is to love God who loves us.

Of the Ten Commandments, the first four were reserved for threatening you how to worship

But what do you expect from a ."jealous" God?

 

[Meriweather]

Ok so the fear tactic has proven to be the most effective in growing one's religion. Jews do not believe in an eternal Hell of fire and brimstone. As Christianity grew off of Judaism like a cancer it was because of the focus on telling people they will go to hell forever and burn if they do not believe. The ignorant masses abided out of self-preservation. This approach has always appealed to people more than "god loves you so please love him back and believe in him." We can see in contemporary times with the Islamic scripture fanatic literalists how easy humans can be to control by using fear. Their scripture literally says men are superior to women, you must cut off one's arms for stealing, etc. Every major religion and political group for that matter has used fear, the most powerful tool in controlling the masses, as it has proven time and time again to be the most effective. It's hilarious but scary that an agnostic can simply doubt based on the laws of nature and biblical contradiction to objective reality and he's the one being prosecuted because others are afraid to hop on the science bandwagon that is moving with the times while religion is left in the past.

First, I don't see early Christians using fear to bring in new members. In the beginning, they had no power. Rather, the message was, "Your sins are forgiven" and God came to save the world. Judaism was more or less a closed membership, whereas Christianity was catholic--open and welcoming to all. Later, did the greedy and powerful use the Christian religion for their own selfish purpose? Many did. Others did not.

Second, I don't think fear of hell in the afterlife is the fear that pulls anyone into religion. Fear of poverty in this life may be the drawing point. While I am not all that familiar with Islam, the major religions seem to have tenets and policies to care for the poor. It can be shown that as poverty decreases and economic conditions thrive, numbers of those practicing a religion decrease as well. Or, if government takes over and provides entitlements and safety nets for the population, the number observing a religion decrease. It appears that religion may be used as a safety net to survival in this world--only to be kicked away when people find another means of safety (i.e. government or a thriving economy).

This tells us that religion probably never grew through instilling a fear of the after life in people; rather it attracted people who could use a hand in this life. Give people another hand to hold onto (government) and many seem willing to give up formal religion--although not necessarily individual prayer/speaking with God.

 

[SpinDr79]

Ok so the fear tactic has proven to be the most effective in growing one's religion. Jews do not believe in an eternal Hell of fire and brimstone. As Christianity grew off of Judaism like a cancer it was because of the focus on telling people they will go to hell forever and burn if they do not believe. The ignorant masses abided out of self-preservation. This approach has always appealed to people more than "god loves you so please love him back and believe in him." We can see in contemporary times with the Islamic scripture fanatic literalists how easy humans can be to control by using fear. Their scripture literally says men are superior to women, you must cut off one's arms for stealing, etc. Every major religion and political group for that matter has used fear, the most powerful tool in controlling the masses, as it has proven time and time again to be the most effective. It's hilarious but scary that an agnostic can simply doubt based on the laws of nature and biblical contradiction to objective reality and he's the one being prosecuted because others are afraid to hop on the science bandwagon that is moving with the times while religion is left in the past.

First, I don't see early Christians using fear to bring in new members. In the beginning, they had no power. Rather, the message was, "Your sins are forgiven" and God came to save the world. Judaism was more or less a closed membership, whereas Christianity was catholic--open and welcoming to all. Later, did the greedy and powerful use the Christian religion for their own selfish purpose? Many did. Others did not.

Second, I don't think fear of hell in the afterlife is the fear that pulls anyone into religion. Fear of poverty in this life may be the drawing point. While I am not all that familiar with Islam, the major religions seem to have tenets and policies to care for the poor. It can be shown that as poverty decreases and economic conditions thrive, numbers of those practicing a religion decrease as well. Or, if government takes over and provides entitlements and safety nets for the population, the number observing a religion decrease. It appears that religion may be used as a safety net to survival in this world--only to be kicked away when people find another means of safety (i.e. government or a thriving economy).

This tells us that religion probably never grew through instilling a fear of the after life in people; rather it attracted people who could use a hand in this life. Give people another hand to hold onto (government) and many seem willing to give up formal religion--although not necessarily individual prayer/speaking with God.

Read "in search of a loving God," by Mark Mason. Might enlighten you to the origins of the concept of hell and its function within the early christians. You are right to assume a correlation with poverty and religion. No doubt about it but (don't take this personally) are very wrong about your "instincts" regarding fear tactics in the business of growing religion. Love doesn't sell, ask any businessman. Fear does. End of story, fact and not debatable. And don't come back with the religions aren't a business crap. In order for religions to grow they need $ and followers fast, and yes they are businesses that pitch fear of a non-existent Hell to instill fear and thus leave the consumer feeling no choice but to conform.

 

[Meriweather]

Read "in search of a loving God," by Mark Mason. Might enlighten you to the origins of the concept of hell and its function within the early christians. You are right to assume a correlation with poverty and religion. No doubt about it but (don't take this personally) are very wrong about your "instincts" regarding fear tactics in the business of growing religion. Love doesn't sell, ask any businessman. Fear does. End of story, fact and not debatable. And don't come back with the religions aren't a business crap. In order for religions to grow they need $ and followers fast, and yes they are businesses that pitch fear of a non-existent Hell to instill fear and thus leave the consumer feeling no choice but to conform.

1. Any Catholic will tell you we almost never hear a sermon on hell. Further, the Catholic catechism teaches us non-believers are entrusted to the mercy of God who can reach those a Church cannot. In other words, there is no Catholic teaching that non-believers are condemned to hell.
2. Some non-Catholic denominations hold a belief the moment they confess belief in Christ, they are assured of heaven--no matter how great their sins. (Their belief is that Jesus paid for them.)
3. As you have mentioned, Jews do not profess hell.

Further, I never implied, let alone said, that business was not a reality of formal religions.

All I am noting is that fear of the after life may not be the driving force some opine. The support for this not being the case is that economic conditions should show no fluctuation in people practicing a religion--yet the better the economy the fewer who practice religion.

 

[bodecea]

If it was proven that God exists, and that every word in the Bible was true, would you worship Him?

A belligerent, arrogant mass murderer like that? No. But since most of the Bible is mythology, your question is meaningless. If I could prove to you that most of the Bible is fiction, would you still worship your god?

Better men than you have tried to discredit the Bible...and failed. So your question is meaningless.

Why would anyone take the bible seriously enough to "discredit it"...people don't bother to discredit fiction.