A Reagan Quote

Discussion in 'Politics' started by tpahl, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. tpahl
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    Someone has a Reagan quote in their sig.

    Then the closest the world has ever seen to a nation is East Germany, and even then it was not a nation according to this definition.

    Travis
     
  2. NewGuy
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    America did a pretty good job in its formation.
     
  3. tpahl
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    At controlling its borders? Initially it had very few restrictions whatsoever.

    http://www.lifeintheusa.com/immigration/history.htm

    The first line of this page says

     
  4. NewGuy
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    It was CONTROLLED quite well during the FORMATION of the nation as I have said.

    Welcoming others goes hand in hand with enforcing the law appropriately with them.

    We controlled our borders quite well. It is times like today we do a terrible job by letting in people who don't contribute but take away from our nation and its resources.
     
  5. tpahl
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    tpahl Member

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    Please give me a site that explains how the US CONTROLLED its immigration while it was being formed. Everything I have read shows that it had a nearly NO restrictions on immigration.

    Travis
     
  6. NewGuy
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    Dude,

    As I just posted, it isn't about merely CLOSING one's borders, it is about REGULATING the nation in ASSOCIATION with the open or closed state.

    I don't educate myself merely off the web.

    I also cannot force you to prove things correct instead of depending on others.
     
  7. NewGuy
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    If you really want to get all huffy about borders, take a look at what Jefferson did:

    In 1803 Napoleon decided to consolidate his resources for a new round of the conflict with England by selling the vast Louisiana region, which stretched from the Mississippi Valley to the Rocky Mountains. Although the asking price, $15 million, was a stupendous bargain, assuming the cost meant substantially increasing the national debt.

    More significantly, what became known as the Louisiana Purchase violated Jefferson's constitutional scruples. Indeed, many historians regard it as the boldest executive action in American history. But Jefferson never wavered, reasoning that the opportunity to double the national domain was too good to miss. The American West always triggered Jefferson's most visionary energies, seeing it, as he did, as America's future, the place where the simple republican principles could be constantly renewed.

    In one fell swoop he removed the threat of a major European power from America's borders and extended the life span of the uncluttered agrarian values he so cherished. Even before news that the purchase was approved reached the United States in July 1803, Jefferson dispatched his private secretary, Meriwether Lewis, to lead an expedition to explore the new acquisition and the lands beyond, all the way to the Pacific.



    It ain't all about guns and fences.
     
  8. tpahl
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    So your arguement is that the US was controlling its border because it was enforcing the all of its laws on immigration. Which totalled none. But now its border is not controlled because we are not completely enforcing the hundreds of immigration restrictions we have on the books?

    If that is the case, then the ONLY way we can 'control' the borders using the definition you are using for control, is to elliminate the laws we have on immigration because they are unenforceable.

    Also I never said you should educate yourself merely off the web. I just asked for a site from the web that backed up your idea. If you would rather send me a book or a video that is fine, I just thought you would like to back up your statement with a less costly method.

    And I will gladly provide you with links as I already have if I make an assertion that you doubt. It is common courtesy.

    Travis
     
  9. NewGuy
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    The Constitution and Bill of Rights do the job quite nicely when followed, thank you.

    You could say that. Eliminate them all, though and following the Constitution and Bill of Rights would be even better.

    No, they arent. -But a lot of those laws SHOULD be repealled for they are not Constitutional.

    Not all evolved thought and logic gathered from years of personal contact, books, and other sources can be put into a 30 second sound bite.

    Be as courteous as you want. It doesn't mean anything if it is wrong or useless.
     
  10. tpahl
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    I agree.

    I agree.


    name one country in history that has effectively implemented tight border restrictions? You can't because they are not enforceable. The consitution is great and it would be a great idea to follow it, but it is not the reason that we should do things. We should do things because it is the right thing to do and Hopefully the consitution agrees.

    Not asking for a 30 second soundbite. I beleived you were saying that the US had tight immigration restrictions ealry in its history. I asked for some proof. It could have been a 50 page essay or a 30 second sound bite. You responded by implying I got all my information from the web and that you owed nothing to me. You are right that you owe nothing to me, but if you are going to make assertions in a forum, it is generally considered respectful to also try to offer something to back it up.

    Since we are in agreement that the US should scrap its immigration controls and did not have strict border restrictions when it was originally formed, that is really not required anymore.

    I am curious where you feel I was wrong?

    Travis
     

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