A question about tax rates

[edthecynic]

No, Only Risk. Do you want to encourage investment which translates to growth, or deter it?

But that "risk" isn't so risky since you get to deduct your losses!

That would merely lower your taxable income,NOT reimburse your loss completely.....same thing a charitable contribution does.

But it does reduce your "risk," not all of it, but some of it. So the risk is still not so risky.

 

[thereisnospoon]

But that "risk" isn't so risky since you get to deduct your losses!

That would merely lower your taxable income,NOT reimburse your loss completely.....same thing a charitable contribution does.

But it does reduce your "risk," not all of it, but some of it. So the risk is still not so risky.

A trader can only write off a portion of their losses.
Not near what you people believe.
If what you state were true, commodities traders could simply throw caution to thew wind and pour all of their money into the markets worry free. "Oh I'll just get it back from the government". Really? That's the story you want to stick with? Fine. You know everything.
Oh....Business....A small business can show a loss for it's first five years. Then after that, the US Tax Code does not allow for losses to be written off.
You people on the Left are so paycheck focused, you forget that those paychecks come from a business that has to earn a profit in order to have the ability to issue those checks.
Do you people really think profit is so evil that a business should only exist to have just enough at the end of the week to make payroll?

 

[thereisnospoon]

if you call taxing investment income the same as the working man's earned income PUNISHMENT, then what are we all working our buns off for....? chopped liver? criminals that deserve punishment? WHY Horty would it be punishing an investor and NOT be truly, punishing us....the worker with a higher tax rate?

care

The money used to invest was already taxed when it was earned as income.
To raise the capital gains tax would punish, and thus stifle, investment.
What purpose would that serve?
The working class tax rate is already lower than capital gains and the rich man's rate, and no one has mentioned raising the working class' rate. (except maybe Obama)

Raising the cap gains tax would punish, and thus stifle, SPECULATION.
A high cap gains tax encourages long term investments and discourages get rich quick speculative investments which just create bubbles.
That's the purpose a high cap gains tax serves!

That's a fine rationalization.
That's like saying dangle the carrot of profit, let the person have the carrot. But the carrot will make them sick.
What is it about speculation that drives you people bat shit anyway?
Are you so green with envy that you cannot stand to see people make money?
I hop you realize that for every person that makes money speculating on business, commodities, stocks, etc. there are thousands that lose their shirts.
Those margin calls are not just for Randolph and Mortimer Duke, you know.
A capital gains taxes are collected on ALL intangibles. Not just speculative investments.
What purpose does high taxation serve?

 

[alan1]

Why is income taxed differently and why is this not seen as an unfair situation?

For instance, if you earn a pay check or are self employed you are taxed somewhere between 10% and 35%.

Yet if you earn your income through investments you are taxed a flat 15%.

Good question.

Why is some income taxed at 10% and some at 35%? That seems unfair to me.
What about the income that isn't taxed at all? You know, those 47% that file a return and pay nothing at all. That doesn't seem fair to me either.

Then why did you CON$ want to make the Bush tax cuts permanent???
Bush's tax cuts doubled the number of people paying no income taxes!!!

You can't have it both ways, if you want the Bush tax cuts, don't whine about people paying no income tax!

I never voted for nor supported the idea that 47% of income earners pay zero federal income tax.

 

[edthecynic]

That would merely lower your taxable income,NOT reimburse your loss completely.....same thing a charitable contribution does.

But it does reduce your "risk," not all of it, but some of it. So the risk is still not so risky.

A trader can only write off a portion of their losses.
Not near what you people believe.
If what you state were true, commodities traders could simply throw caution to thew wind and pour all of their money into the markets worry free. "Oh I'll just get it back from the government". Really? That's the story you want to stick with? Fine. You know everything.
Oh....Business....A small business can show a loss for it's first five years. Then after that, the US Tax Code does not allow for losses to be written off.
You people on the Left are so paycheck focused, you forget that those paychecks come from a business that has to earn a profit in order to have the ability to issue those checks.
Do you people really think profit is so evil that a business should only exist to have just enough at the end of the week to make payroll?

you can write off $3,000 each year over and above your capital gains. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

 

[edthecynic]

Good question.

Why is some income taxed at 10% and some at 35%? That seems unfair to me.
What about the income that isn't taxed at all? You know, those 47% that file a return and pay nothing at all. That doesn't seem fair to me either.

Then why did you CON$ want to make the Bush tax cuts permanent???
Bush's tax cuts doubled the number of people paying no income taxes!!!

You can't have it both ways, if you want the Bush tax cuts, don't whine about people paying no income tax!

I never voted for nor supported the idea that 47% of income earners pay zero federal income tax.

Funny how CON$ now pretend that they never voted twice for Bush or supported his tax cuts.

The GOP have been buying votes with tax cuts for decades. Every time they cut taxes for votes, more people pay no income taxes.

 

[asterism]

But it does reduce your "risk," not all of it, but some of it. So the risk is still not so risky.

A trader can only write off a portion of their losses.
Not near what you people believe.
If what you state were true, commodities traders could simply throw caution to thew wind and pour all of their money into the markets worry free. "Oh I'll just get it back from the government". Really? That's the story you want to stick with? Fine. You know everything.
Oh....Business....A small business can show a loss for it's first five years. Then after that, the US Tax Code does not allow for losses to be written off.
You people on the Left are so paycheck focused, you forget that those paychecks come from a business that has to earn a profit in order to have the ability to issue those checks.
Do you people really think profit is so evil that a business should only exist to have just enough at the end of the week to make payroll?

you can write off $3,000 each year. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

 

[alan1]

Then why did you CON$ want to make the Bush tax cuts permanent???
Bush's tax cuts doubled the number of people paying no income taxes!!!

You can't have it both ways, if you want the Bush tax cuts, don't whine about people paying no income tax!

I never voted for nor supported the idea that 47% of income earners pay zero federal income tax.

Funny how CON$ now pretend that they never voted twice for Bush or supported his tax cuts.

The GOP have been buying votes with tax cuts for decades. Every time they cut taxes for votes, more people pay no income taxes.

I voted for Mr Bush over Mr Gore. The second time around, I voted for Mr Badnarik over both the other lousy options. Care to predict my last presidential vote?

 

[edthecynic]

A trader can only write off a portion of their losses.
Not near what you people believe.
If what you state were true, commodities traders could simply throw caution to thew wind and pour all of their money into the markets worry free. "Oh I'll just get it back from the government". Really? That's the story you want to stick with? Fine. You know everything.
Oh....Business....A small business can show a loss for it's first five years. Then after that, the US Tax Code does not allow for losses to be written off.
You people on the Left are so paycheck focused, you forget that those paychecks come from a business that has to earn a profit in order to have the ability to issue those checks.
Do you people really think profit is so evil that a business should only exist to have just enough at the end of the week to make payroll?

you can write off $3,000 each year. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

Someone who takes care of their health.

Seriously, if you made $200,000 in capital gains the next year you could write off the whole $200,000 loss in one year. You can't write off more than $3,000 in losses over and above your gains, but in any given year there is no limit on the amount of capital losses that can offset capital gains.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why is income taxed differently and why is this not seen as an unfair situation?

For instance, if you earn a pay check or are self employed you are taxed somewhere between 10% and 35%.

Yet if you earn your income through investments you are taxed a flat 15%.

2 gold stars and a cookie for the mad hatter.

That's the question of the century... goes hand in hand with We, The People spending Billion$ every year on hired help to do the fucking paperwork required to work here.

Ggle Search: Annual Sales "AND" American Tax Preparation Industry.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A trader can only write off a portion of their losses.
Not near what you people believe.
If what you state were true, commodities traders could simply throw caution to thew wind and pour all of their money into the markets worry free. "Oh I'll just get it back from the government". Really? That's the story you want to stick with? Fine. You know everything.
Oh....Business....A small business can show a loss for it's first five years. Then after that, the US Tax Code does not allow for losses to be written off.
You people on the Left are so paycheck focused, you forget that those paychecks come from a business that has to earn a profit in order to have the ability to issue those checks.
Do you people really think profit is so evil that a business should only exist to have just enough at the end of the week to make payroll?

you can write off $3,000 each year. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

What the fuck difference does all that make? If you are of the opinion that adding to or somehow tweaking the current pile of corruption, favoritism and bullshit referred to as our tax code in an attempt to fix it is the answer, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Simple taxes = Fair taxes.

Fair taxes, a budget balanced by law and then build an economy your children can ride to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

9% general sales tax on everything purchased for consumption.
9% personal income tax.
9% business income tax - payroll is the only deduction.

If it makes us look stupid to tax the $17,000 that's the best someone can do and then turn around and give him cash help - let every citizen earn the first $25,000 tax free.

As long as a law is applied to everyone the same, it's fair.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I never voted for nor supported the idea that 47% of income earners pay zero federal income tax.

Funny how CON$ now pretend that they never voted twice for Bush or supported his tax cuts.

The GOP have been buying votes with tax cuts for decades. Every time they cut taxes for votes, more people pay no income taxes.

I voted for Mr Bush over Mr Gore. The second time around, I voted for Mr Badnarik over both the other lousy options. Care to predict my last presidential vote?

We can only guess your last presidential vote. We can only predict what you'll do in future elections.

The past is boring.....

I'm predicting that next go 'round you'll write-in AVG-JOE.

 

[asterism]

you can write off $3,000 each year. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

Someone who takes care of their health.

Seriously, if you made $200,000 in capital gains the next year you could write off the whole $200,000 loss in one year. You can't write off more than $3,000 in losses over and above your gains, but in any given year there is no limit on the amount of capital losses that can offset capital gains.

That is not true. You cannot carry forward more than $3000 per year. You can only use losses over $3000 to offset gains in the same year.

 

[asterism]

you can write off $3,000 each year. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

What the fuck difference does all that make? If you are of the opinion that adding to or somehow tweaking the current pile of corruption, favoritism and bullshit referred to as our tax code in an attempt to fix it is the answer, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Simple taxes = Fair taxes.

Fair taxes, a budget balanced by law and then build an economy your children can ride to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

9% general sales tax on everything purchased for consumption.
9% personal income tax.
9% business income tax - payroll is the only deduction.

If it makes us look stupid to tax the $17,000 that's the best someone can do and then turn around and give him cash help - let every citizen earn the first $25,000 tax free.

As long as a law is applied to everyone the same, it's fair.

I agree.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-romper-room/186036-999-too-simple-for-liberals-to-understand.html

 

[Old Rocks]

Why is income taxed differently and why is this not seen as an unfair situation?

For instance, if you earn a pay check or are self employed you are taxed somewhere between 10% and 35%.

Yet if you earn your income through investments you are taxed a flat 15%.

Because those that make the kind of money that the 15%er's make can hire lobbyists to bribe congressmen to keep their taxes low.

 

[Old Rocks]

you can write off $3,000 each year. If you lost more than $3,000 you can carryover the balance to future years until the balance reaches zero. So that "portion" is 100%!

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

What the fuck difference does all that make? If you are of the opinion that adding to or somehow tweaking the current pile of corruption, favoritism and bullshit referred to as our tax code in an attempt to fix it is the answer, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Simple taxes = Fair taxes.

Fair taxes, a budget balanced by law and then build an economy your children can ride to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

9% general sales tax on everything purchased for consumption.
9% personal income tax.
9% business income tax - payroll is the only deduction.

If it makes us look stupid to tax the $17,000 that's the best someone can do and then turn around and give him cash help - let every citizen earn the first $25,000 tax free.

As long as a law is applied to everyone the same, it's fair.

OK. You have me interested. Have you done any figures for what revenue that would bring in? The first $25 K being deductable sounds fair, indeed.

Lastly, what legislative loopholes left for emergencies? Neccessary, but how to manage them?

 

[asterism]

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

What the fuck difference does all that make? If you are of the opinion that adding to or somehow tweaking the current pile of corruption, favoritism and bullshit referred to as our tax code in an attempt to fix it is the answer, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Simple taxes = Fair taxes.

Fair taxes, a budget balanced by law and then build an economy your children can ride to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

9% general sales tax on everything purchased for consumption.
9% personal income tax.
9% business income tax - payroll is the only deduction.

If it makes us look stupid to tax the $17,000 that's the best someone can do and then turn around and give him cash help - let every citizen earn the first $25,000 tax free.

As long as a law is applied to everyone the same, it's fair.

OK. You have me interested. Have you done any figures for what revenue that would bring in? The first $25 K being deductable sounds fair, indeed.

Lastly, what legislative loopholes left for emergencies? Neccessary, but how to manage them?

Clutch your pearls, I'm about to disagree with every conservative I know.


We don't need legislative loopholes. The Office of the President has the power to deal with emergencies. If it's truly an emergency, the President can do it. He or she can do lots of things with a true emergency.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

What the fuck difference does all that make? If you are of the opinion that adding to or somehow tweaking the current pile of corruption, favoritism and bullshit referred to as our tax code in an attempt to fix it is the answer, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Simple taxes = Fair taxes.

Fair taxes, a budget balanced by law and then build an economy your children can ride to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

9% general sales tax on everything purchased for consumption.
9% personal income tax.
9% business income tax - payroll is the only deduction.

If it makes us look stupid to tax the $17,000 that's the best someone can do and then turn around and give him cash help - let every citizen earn the first $25,000 tax free.

As long as a law is applied to everyone the same, it's fair.

OK. You have me interested. Have you done any figures for what revenue that would bring in? The first $25 K being deductable sounds fair, indeed.

Lastly, what legislative loopholes left for emergencies? Neccessary, but how to manage them?

Having a budget balanced by law doesn't mean the government can't borrow money, it means the government has to borrow money responsibly.

Imagine.... A Stormy day hits that quickly drains whatever emergency fund you can envision us having if we had any surplus to call an 'Emergency Fund'.

What do We do?

In that kind of a situation, I have no problem with Us floating some sort of a bond, ass-U-me-ing it comes as a specified amount, with a specified maturity schedule and a dedicated stream of the national cash-flow hammering at it 'till it's paid off.

But the first step remains: Fair taxes and a budget balanced by law. It's time to scrap the tax code in favor of something that doesn't cost so much to do the fucking paperwork.

 

[edthecynic]

How do you figure? Who lives long enough to carry $200,000 in losses at $3000 per year?

Someone who takes care of their health.

Seriously, if you made $200,000 in capital gains the next year you could write off the whole $200,000 loss in one year. You can't write off more than $3,000 in losses over and above your gains, but in any given year there is no limit on the amount of capital losses that can offset capital gains.

That is not true. You cannot carry forward more than $3000 per year. You can only use losses over $3000 to offset gains in the same year.

There is no limit to the losses you can carry forward or how many years you carry them forward. They can be used to offset capital gains in future yeaes.

Capital Loss Carryover Definition
What Does Capital Loss Carryover Mean?
The net amount of capital losses that aren't deductible for the current tax year but can be carried over into future tax years. Net capital losses (total capital losses minus total capital gains) can only be deducted up to a maximum of $3,000 in a given tax year. Any amounts exceeding $3,000 can be put toward offsetting capital gains in the current year or simply deducted in the next year(s).