A Matter in Bad Need of Attention

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Adam's Apple, Jun 26, 2006.

  1. Adam's Apple
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    Adam's Apple Senior Member

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    Mosque Matters
    By Michael A. Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute
    June 22, 2006

    Maybe We'd Tackle the Tough Issues If We Got that We're at War

    Some day we will be forced to deal fully with the war we are in, and when that happens we’re going to discover a lot of very nasty problems about the future of America. One of them has to do with, of all things, the First Amendment. Consider this story from Wednesday’s London Times:

    for full article
    http://aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.24586/pub_detail.asp
     
  2. PsuedoGhost
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    PsuedoGhost Member

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    The argument that we are losing lives and therefore must curtail freedoms does not hold water. We have given lives in order to protect these freedoms. We hold these freedoms to be quintessential for our existance. Why the sudden change of pace? No one ever said living in an open society would be easy. Our founding fathers understood this. Why have we lost this mentality?
     
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  3. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    Exactly right. We have laws that are on the books currently that can tackle this problem. We dont need new ones created to infringe upon more freedoms.

    The FBI, CIA and numerous other government agencies can investigate mosques, churches, synagogues, temples, etc at anytime if they have suspicion of wrong doing. Wiretapping mosque telephone lines is being done already if they are suspected of giving aide to known terror suspects. We dont need to create new sweeping laws to infringe upon the rest of American society for a problem that only encompasses less than 1% of the population. Not to mention we dont need a precedent set for future leaders of this country to abuse.

    Let the FBI, CIA, etc do their jobs under the current laws. Don't create worse problems.
     
  4. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    Just about the same time we decided that it is more important to capture the moral high ground, be PC, etc. than it is to preserve the nation and do what is right for ALL the citizens of this nation....when we decided that special interests, minorities, illegal immigrants and animals had more rights than the majority of citizens.....that's when and why.
     
  5. PsuedoGhost
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    PsuedoGhost Member

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    Another partisan snipe without addressing the points that I made in my post. Come on man, if all you can do is cry about liberals, then go cry about them. When you want to have a rational discussion come back.
     
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  6. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    Which partisan snipe? His or yours? At least CSM's is logical. Yours is not. You place your individual convenience and ideals above the collective right of the people of this Nation to continue to exist.

    Yet was it not the liberals who cried the loudest post-9/11 for Bush to "protect us?"

    You demand protection; yet, you refuse to be invonvenienced of have any of your perceived rights so much as altered in order to do so. I've heard that most called "wanting your cake and eating it too."
     
  7. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    CSM and gunny,

    We have laws that can take care of these problems. Don't let them fool you into making new ones that will take away OUR rights as well. All the time we are faced with decisions of Freedom or security. I for one choose Freedom because security is NOT guaranteed by anyone.
     
  8. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    I doubt anyone is fooling us into anything. Rather than one extreme or the other, I believe in a happy medium based on logic and common sense.

    And maybe it's just the military in us, but I for one, don't feel that my personal inconvenience at times is that big a sacrifice for soem common sense security.

    No, we are not guaranteed security, but when you have knuckleheads calling us "the Great Satan," calling for our destruction, and flying our own planes into our buildings full of noncombatants, I don't need an acorn to fall on my head to tell me I might want to watch them.

    I also would like to point out a significant point here: You cannot have ultimate individual liberty AND security. One will always be at the expense of the other. The liberals want both, and that was the point of my statement.
     
  9. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I have to agree with you Gunny. If the government wishes to watch for weird patterns with phones or computers, I just don't find that so crushing on my privacy, if it will help them perhaps find a cell in the country.

    The banking deal, well I don't have money in Belgium or anywhere but down a couple blocks from my home. Yeah, so it's now Chase, but if they are watching my account, hopefully they'll take pity and add to it.

    All kidding aside, I haven't found the government oppressive in what is literally wartime. I think that is the problem many are having, it doesn't seem like wartime, perhaps the government should shoulder some of that blame?

    I know that during WWII calls were literally monitored. Gasoline was rationed, today we'd hear people say, "The government is trying to control our movements." Seriously.
     
  10. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    If the government has nothing better to do than look at my bank account and phone calls, someone is in serious need of job validation.:rotflmao:

    And you are correct. Yje US faced far more restrictions on personal liberties during WWII, and during the Civil War, Lincoln suspended habeus corpus altogether.

    As I've said before, seems to me the only people who should really be worried are the ones calling terrorists and/or moving large, unaccounted for sums of money through their accounts.

    Besides all that, I have always gone under the assumption that someone was always listening, and the IRS can comandeer your home and sift through every penny you ever made.

    SO there really isn't anything new going on, IMO. Just something more for the left to sensationalize.
     

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