"A lot of people are going to lose homes,cars...

[LoneLaugher]

.

I have an individual policy - most people are covered by their employer group policies.

Group policies are less expensive -


Single payer eliminates group policies and everyone chooses their own individual policy.

.

Hmmmmm.

Think Medicare. Medicare is single payer. See?

Not everyone is on Medicare.

BTW, Medicare is one of the biggest contributors to the deficit.

What? Not everyone is on Medicare? Really!? I thought everyone was on Medicare! Everyone except people over the age of 65, that is. Damn! I learn something new every day here.

You make a great point. How can Medicare be single payer unless everyone is on it? Everyone knows that "single payer" means one payer for everyone! How silly of me!

BTW......no it isn't.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hmmmmm.

Think Medicare. Medicare is single payer. See?

Not everyone is on Medicare.

BTW, Medicare is one of the biggest contributors to the deficit.

What? Not everyone is on Medicare? Really!? I thought everyone was on Medicare! Everyone except people over the age of 65, that is. Damn! I learn something new every day here.

You make a great point. How can Medicare be single payer unless everyone is on it? Everyone knows that "single payer" means one payer for everyone! How silly of me!

BTW......no it isn't.

You realize you're getting your ass handed to you again, right?

 

[Barb]

I have to laugh when I see the hand wringing over jobs lost in the insurance industry. I'll say the same thing I did back when it was white collar jobs in general on the chopping block. Reagan's "legacy" started the year before I graduated high school, and I remember the changes in attitudes that took place towards the poor, and towards the rights of honest, hard working people to collectively bargain for decent pay, working conditions, and benefits. When General Electric first started shedding jobs by the thousands, I remember my parents talking about a friend of theirs who had to take a much lower paying job, about what a shame it was, but that many people would have to go back to school or training programs to update their skills and adjust their expectations.

When downsizing, rightsizing and outsourcing hit the white collared world, I’m sure everyone understood why blue collar workers weren’t handy for the pickets and protests. Oh, that’s right; there were precious few of either. The sleight of hand at play is understood; people were tricked! But if you cede worker protections and blame everything on the people who set the standard for them, you can’t be too shocked to be ass out when it’s your turn in the pickle barrel.

And here they are the protected class, mewling over...their EMPLOYEES?! AND you buy that shit? You have GOT to be kidding me! PBBBBBLLLLLLEASE tell me you're just kidding, and you're not actually that, um, okay...trusting, yeah, trusting.

 

[The Rabbi]

I have to laugh when I see the hand wringing over jobs lost in the insurance industry. I'll say the same thing I did back when it was white collar jobs in general on the chopping block. Reagan's "legacy" started the year before I graduated high school, and I remember the changes in attitudes that took place towards the poor, and towards the rights of honest, hard working people to collectively bargain for decent pay, working conditions, and benefits. When General Electric first started shedding jobs by the thousands, I remember my parents talking about a friend of theirs who had to take a much lower paying job, about what a shame it was, but that many people would have to go back to school or training programs to update their skills and adjust their expectations.

When downsizing, rightsizing and outsourcing hit the white collared world, I’m sure everyone understood why blue collar workers weren’t handy for the pickets and protests. Oh, that’s right; there were precious few of either. The sleight of hand at play is understood; people were tricked! But if you cede worker protections and blame everything on the people who set the standard for them, you can’t be too shocked to be ass out when it’s your turn in the pickle barrel.

And here they are the protected class, mewling over...their EMPLOYEES?! AND you buy that shit? You have GOT to be kidding me! PBBBBBLLLLLLEASE tell me you're just kidding, and you're not actually that, um, okay...trusting, yeah, trusting.

Can I get an English translation of that? I mean other than "Wahh, I'm getting kept down by da Man!"

 

[JakeStarkey]

Really? Prove it.

 

[Papageorgio]

OUR HEALTH CARE COSTS AT LEAST 50 PER CENT MORE THAN ANY OTHER MODERN COUNTRY, with worse results. IN 2007 OURS HAD 34 PER CENT APPROVAL, WHILE EVERYONE ELSE WAS OVER 80.

This insurer based thing can work fine if well regulated, like in SWITZ and Holland, two other bastions of capitalism.

What in the health care bill is designed to cut or slow rising health care costs?

 

[healthmyths]

.

I have an individual policy - most people are covered by their employer group policies.

Group policies are less expensive -


Single payer eliminates group policies and everyone chooses their own individual policy.

.

OK.. YOU have an individual policy right?
Do the claims your doctor files AFTER HE SEES YOU For an Office call go to you to be paid?
NO you dumb FU>>K!
The insurance company PAYS the claims... HENCE they are the PAYER!
YOU pay a premium that is FAR less then the claims The insurance company HOPES that don't have to pay BUT because the state you live in requires the company YOU pay your premium to must PAY claims that makes the company the PAYER!
There are 1,300 health insurance companies THAT PAY THE CLAIMS filed by the people that pay the premiums be that the individual LIKE dumb shits like YOU or the company that the employee works for that PAYS the premiums so that the insurance company can pay the CLAIMS!

DO YOU NOW understand the distinction???
Here let me make it simpler!
You write a check for your insurance premium!
You go to the hospital and the bill is $10,000. Do you pay the bill? NO! Dummy that what you paid your premiums to the
insurance company so THEY PAYER i.e. PAYER!!! Pay the claims!

Geez/... you people are so f...king dense!

What we have here is a prime example of the nutter inferiority complex.

HM knows the meaning of "single payer". It is not a particularly difficult concept. Upon realizing that someone else has misunderstood the meaning of the term, he found it necessary to lay into tht person with an insult-filled lesson. Carrying on too long and with overdone emphasis.

FAQ2, who is not a nutter with an inferiority complex, also made note of the error....but did so with class. A simple explaination is all tht ws needed.

Why did HM do this? Because that fucking idiot is so caught off guard when he is better informed than someone else.....he must put on a show about it. He completely disregarded the fact that Breezewood is his intellectual superior many times over. His impulse took over. The loser impulse.

Let's break down the term like we do for 1st graders!

Single-payer health insurance
collects all medical fees, then pays for all services,
through a "single" government (or government-related) source.
Single payer - encyclopedia article about Single payer.

DO YOU understand? COLLECTS ALL FEES and PAYS for ALL SERVICES???

 

[The Rabbi]

OK.. YOU have an individual policy right?
Do the claims your doctor files AFTER HE SEES YOU For an Office call go to you to be paid?
NO you dumb FU>>K!
The insurance company PAYS the claims... HENCE they are the PAYER!
YOU pay a premium that is FAR less then the claims The insurance company HOPES that don't have to pay BUT because the state you live in requires the company YOU pay your premium to must PAY claims that makes the company the PAYER!
There are 1,300 health insurance companies THAT PAY THE CLAIMS filed by the people that pay the premiums be that the individual LIKE dumb shits like YOU or the company that the employee works for that PAYS the premiums so that the insurance company can pay the CLAIMS!

DO YOU NOW understand the distinction???
Here let me make it simpler!
You write a check for your insurance premium!
You go to the hospital and the bill is $10,000. Do you pay the bill? NO! Dummy that what you paid your premiums to the
insurance company so THEY PAYER i.e. PAYER!!! Pay the claims!

Geez/... you people are so f...king dense!

What we have here is a prime example of the nutter inferiority complex.

HM knows the meaning of "single payer". It is not a particularly difficult concept. Upon realizing that someone else has misunderstood the meaning of the term, he found it necessary to lay into tht person with an insult-filled lesson. Carrying on too long and with overdone emphasis.

FAQ2, who is not a nutter with an inferiority complex, also made note of the error....but did so with class. A simple explaination is all tht ws needed.

Why did HM do this? Because that fucking idiot is so caught off guard when he is better informed than someone else.....he must put on a show about it. He completely disregarded the fact that Breezewood is his intellectual superior many times over. His impulse took over. The loser impulse.

Let's break down the term like we do for 1st graders!

Single-payer health insurance
collects all medical fees, then pays for all services,
through a "single" government (or government-related) source.
Single payer - encyclopedia article about Single payer.

DO YOU understand? COLLECTS ALL FEES and PAYS for ALL SERVICES???

LoneAssclown is so stupid he doesn't even know that he's been pwned.

 

[MaryL]

Is there an other alternative? Private care VS Socialized health care? Insurance companies helped create this train wreck...whacked out charges for petty stuff, outrageous bills for minor things....I am willing to give "Obamacare" a shot now, given the alternative. When I was a child, doctors literally came door to door. There were no outrageous charges for pulling out a needle and stabbing you with it....You paid up front. The current health system isn't about "health". It mutated into Corporate profit and bottom lines. I am not shilling for anyone, especially the current administration or their policies. By the bye, the American Government had enough sense to help build the Panama Canal, fight WWI and WWII and stuff like end the depression and do things that were for the good of the American people. Insurance companies look out for what is good for THEM. Who “they’ are is the question.

 

[The Rabbi]

Is there an other alternative? Private care VS Socialized health care? Insurance companies helped create this train wreck...wacked out charges for petty stuff, outrageous bills for minor things....I am willing to give "Obamacare" a shot now, given the alternative. When I was a child, doctors literally came door to door. There were no outrageous charges for pulling out a needle and stabbing you with it....You paid up front. The current health system isn't about "health". It mutated into profit and bottom lines.

Insurance companies do not charge for medical supplies or procedures.

 

[LoneLaugher]

What we have here is a prime example of the nutter inferiority complex.

HM knows the meaning of "single payer". It is not a particularly difficult concept. Upon realizing that someone else has misunderstood the meaning of the term, he found it necessary to lay into tht person with an insult-filled lesson. Carrying on too long and with overdone emphasis.

FAQ2, who is not a nutter with an inferiority complex, also made note of the error....but did so with class. A simple explaination is all tht ws needed.

Why did HM do this? Because that fucking idiot is so caught off guard when he is better informed than someone else.....he must put on a show about it. He completely disregarded the fact that Breezewood is his intellectual superior many times over. His impulse took over. The loser impulse.

Let's break down the term like we do for 1st graders!

Single-payer health insurance
collects all medical fees, then pays for all services,
through a "single" government (or government-related) source.
Single payer - encyclopedia article about Single payer.

DO YOU understand? COLLECTS ALL FEES and PAYS for ALL SERVICES???

LoneAssclown is so stupid he doesn't even know that he's been pwned.

Oh....look....LoneAssclown! How funny! You are a riot.

Never been owned by anyone who is stupid enough to think Rick Perry or Herman Cain could be POTUS or that Mitt Romney would be POTUS.

The only owning you ever do takes place in your hollow head.

Keep trying though. I might make a mistake someday.

 

[The Rabbi]

Let's break down the term like we do for 1st graders!

Single-payer health insurance
collects all medical fees, then pays for all services,
through a "single" government (or government-related) source.
Single payer - encyclopedia article about Single payer.

DO YOU understand? COLLECTS ALL FEES and PAYS for ALL SERVICES???

LoneAssclown is so stupid he doesn't even know that he's been pwned.

Oh....look....LoneAssclown! How funny! You are a riot.

Never been owned by anyone who is stupid enough to think Rick Perry or Herman Cain could be POTUS or that Mitt Romney would be POTUS.

The only owning you ever do takes place in your hollow head.

Keep trying though. I might make a mistake someday.

Ironic post is ironic.
You keep proving my point even as you post.

 

[LoneLaugher]

LoneAssclown is so stupid he doesn't even know that he's been pwned.

Oh....look....LoneAssclown! How funny! You are a riot.

Never been owned by anyone who is stupid enough to think Rick Perry or Herman Cain could be POTUS or that Mitt Romney would be POTUS.

The only owning you ever do takes place in your hollow head.

Keep trying though. I might make a mistake someday.

Ironic post is ironic.
You keep proving my point even as you post.

Proving it to who?

We need a poll.

 

[FA_Q2]

.

I have an individual policy - most people are covered by their employer group policies.

Group policies are less expensive -


Single payer eliminates group policies and everyone chooses their own individual policy.

.

Hmmmmm.

Think Medicare. Medicare is single payer. See?

Sou2q[nds good to me but single payer does not necessarily have to be administered by the gov't.

True but government is the absolute best way to administer a single payer system. This is from a guy that does not want government running a shrimp stall.

The core requirement of a single payer system is that, well, there is only ONE payer. That single payer has the entire industry subject to them as they are the sole source of funding in that group. Medicare acts much like a single payer because it pays for ALL healthcare that a certain age group receives though it is not truly a single payer as there are other sources of payment authorized (additional insurance and personal payments etc.).

The problem with any other pay system that is not government (essentially a company pays for the healthcare) is that such systems are based around the concept of competition. That competition is what makes companies efficient and better than government. Single payer is inherently, by definition, devoid of competition. Further, such a system gives enormous power to the controller of that payment. Such power does not belong in another entities grasp. The government is given rather expansive powers because it is supposed to be regulated by the people. A company has no such compunction being only beholden to profits; something that can be brutally maximized by monopolies.

 

[Greenbeard]

What in the health care bill is designed to cut or slow rising health care costs?

Insurance market competition, new health care delivery models, linking health care payment to value (the quality/cost ratio), prevention and public health provisions. Insurers, providers, and individuals all have new incentives aimed to lower costs and improve quality.

Interesting note: health care spending growth and health care price inflation have now reached record lows.

 

[FA_Q2]

HM.....

How many times have you posted that bullshit?

FAQ2,

Well phrased. I disagree....having seen single payer first hand in Japan..and knowing that the way Medicare is handled is efficient. The Japanese government is quite a bit "noisier" than ours, by the way. And they never once intruded into the discussion between me and medical professionals.

I appreciate your measured comments, though. It means we can have a discussion.

Medicare is not efficient by any means. It makes that claim because it the ‘overhead’ can be claimed as low but that ignores on the fact that they are incredibly bad at actually sending out payments, months behind actually paying what they owe, terrible at determining fraud and get to make their own payment schedule while requiring the doctors and institution to make up the losses elsewhere.

I also experienced this system quite intimately in Germany and I think that you are flat out incorrect. May I ask what you experienced this with?

For myself, I experienced a year in the German medical system dealing with childhood leukemia. To put it mildly, they nearly killed my child on several occasions, tied him to a bed because the nurses could not be bothered to get one of us out of the upstairs rooms (where we were required to be at) and completely failed to include up in the actual decisions in his care. There was a reason for the last though – there were ZERO decisions to make. The government had already decided to do what they were willing to pay for. I would challenge that you only think that they never got involved in your situations because you were not informed of what they were. We did not know until we got to the states and started to see real options. Those options that were NOT included in the previous schedule because the doctors did not include the patients in the process.

Further, the inefficiencies were ENORMOUS. Here, I had a home setup where I could administer almost anything short of chemotherapy through a home infusion pump setup. In Germany, it took a doctor to even flush the central line. That led to all sorts of negative fallout because the line could not be treated properly without daily flushing – something impossible if a doctor is required to do it. Essentially, I can say with certainty that the HC system here is a thousand times better and has more options than that of Germany. I am confident that those differences are due to the single payer system and cultural differences.

There is a reason that people all over the globe come HERE for medical treatments. It is because we have the widest and best options available. The problem with the fantastic care that we have is that it is fucking expensive and that makes it prohibitive to many that cannot afford it. A LOT of that can be directly ties to the way that we pay and the manner that we regulate the system and the fixes lie in other directions that the ACA which will NOT address cost. Costs are going to continue to outstrip growth and the ACA will end up doing nothing.

We need to change the way tort works, change the powers that nurses have expanding their role in the medical world, change emergency rooms, roll back the massive regulatory system that increases pricing, bring customers CLOSER to the costs of standard medical care, have grater protections for more expensive care and a host of other things. There was a few good things in the ACA like the exchanges (that should not be mandatory BTW) and the move to result based pay but the vast majority is garbage and nothing more than corporatist grab bags into a MASSIVE industry.

 

[The Rabbi]

What in the health care bill is designed to cut or slow rising health care costs?

Insurance market competition, new health care delivery models, linking health care payment to value (the quality/cost ratio), prevention and public health provisions. Insurers, providers, and individuals all have new incentives aimed to lower costs and improve quality.

Interesting note: health care spending growth and health care price inflation have now reached record lows.

So why are premiums going up everywhere?
Oops.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh....look....LoneAssclown! How funny! You are a riot.

Never been owned by anyone who is stupid enough to think Rick Perry or Herman Cain could be POTUS or that Mitt Romney would be POTUS.

The only owning you ever do takes place in your hollow head.

Keep trying though. I might make a mistake someday.

Ironic post is ironic.
You keep proving my point even as you post.

Proving it to who?

We need a poll.

Anyone with two brain cells.
Which excludes most of the leftists here.