A few questions so I will know who I'm dealing with...

[HistoryBefore67]

My bad. Have an OJ on me!

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

A bit off-topic.

Rocco...Iran did not create Hamas:

(COMMENT)

If you say so.

But your assertion that Israel (Blowback or otherwise) created Hamas is erroneous.

"In fact, Israel for many years tolerated and at times encouraged Islamic activists and groups as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the PLO and its dominant faction, Fatah.

(COMMENT)

Hamas was an independent development via Sheikh Ahmad Yassin. However, the IRACG-QF (Quds Force) has had an ongoing relationship with Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) since before the 1967 War, and has (with few interruptions) been supplying weapons to HoAP during this continuous association.

In fact, one of the classic examples used as the reasoning for the Naval Blocked of the Gaza Strip is the seizure of the Palestinian freighter MV Karina A, with its 50 Tons of QF weapons bound for Hamas.

"Among the activists benefited was Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza, who had also formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya in 1973, a charity recognized by Israel in 1979. Israel allowed the organization to build mosques, clubs, schools, and a library in Gaza.[8][10]"

(COMMENT)

I would not use the term "blowback." Blowback implies a consequence as a result of an active covert or clandestine program. There has never been an "active" operation conducted by the Israelis in the start-up of Hamas. Originally the Israelis did not oppose Hamas with any significant effort because it was not considered an HoAP involved in violence and terrorism. Prior to the Intifada, Israel may have passively ignored Hamas activities by not hampering its funding and logistics efforts; but that is not "blowback" --- that is the Palestinian (HoAP) biting the hand that was attempting to do right by them. This "passive" approach was neither covert or clandestine; but allowed to proceed in the open (overt). This is a case of a layman misusing technical terminology.

Have you noticed how US funding for al-Qa'ida in the 1980s and Israel's creation of Hamas serve the interests of those who get rich from war and debt today?

(COMMENT)

The US never provided any support or funding for al-Qaeda (foreign Arab combatants and Jihadist). The US supported the Mujahideen (indigenous Afghan). It may have been possible that the Mujahideen (Afghan) provided some support to al-Qaeda that originally came by way of the US; but the US never intended any direct support to go beyond the indigenous Afghan.

There are any number of people, with an anti-American agenda, or self centered intention to sensationalize (aggrandizing themselves in the process - for personal benefit).

The Israelis didn't create Hamas. It just didn't hamper its initial start-up. At the time, it wasn't considered a threat.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

Rocco...al-Qa'ida translates as "the base", shorthand for CIA database.

Any "support" for indigenous Afghan resistance to the Soviet invasion was another response to what President Eisenhower and his staff called the "campaign of hatred against us in the Arab world." Not that Arab governments hated their rich western benefactors, but rather the Arab people hated us for imposing and sustaining those rich, corrupt elites who chose to inflict an extremist version of Islam upon their population.

Israel allowed Hamas to build mosques, clubs, schools, and libraries in Gaza for the exact same reason, as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the PLO who saw clearly the role Israel played in the western corporate domination of Near East oil.

There are any number of Americans who reject elementary moral standards: specifically, if an action is right for us, it is right for others; if it is wrong for others it is wrong for us.

They believe their acts are justified by power.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The idea that there is some international law or consensus that extends the indigenous Palestinian greater rights and freedoms over the legitimate immigrant is clearly erroneous; both as a mental exercise and as humanitarian ideal.

POINT #2: The Jewish people in the former Mandate of Palestine were not foreigners in the sense that they spontaneously arrived or invaded the Mandate.

This is the US definition but it is a basic that should apply anywhere.

These related terms are often used in deliberately confusing and conflicting ways. Here is a set of definitions that will help you sort out the difference.

IMMIGRANT: In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant

There were Jews in Palestine who had different status.

• Those who had lived there forever.

• Those who moved to Palestine (immigrants as defined above) to live in the holy land.

These are the Jews who are considered by the Palestinians to be legitimate Palestinian citizens. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Then there were Jews who were literally imported by the foreign Zionists, by the boatload, for the purpose of overthrowing Palestine and replacing it with a Jewish state. They fit the description of alien as defined above. They were considered foreigners. And since they were there to overthrow Palestine, invaders would not be an inaccurate term.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The idea that there is some international law or consensus that extends the indigenous Palestinian greater rights and freedoms over the legitimate immigrant is clearly erroneous; both as a mental exercise and as humanitarian ideal.

POINT #2: The Jewish people in the former Mandate of Palestine were not foreigners in the sense that they spontaneously arrived or invaded the Mandate.

This is the US definition but it is a basic that should apply anywhere.

These related terms are often used in deliberately confusing and conflicting ways. Here is a set of definitions that will help you sort out the difference.

IMMIGRANT: In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant

There were Jews in Palestine who had different status.

• Those who had lived there forever.

• Those who moved to Palestine (immigrants as defined above) to live in the holy land.

These are the Jews who are considered by the Palestinians to be legitimate Palestinian citizens. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Then there were Jews who were literally imported by the foreign Zionists, by the boatload, for the purpose of overthrowing Palestine and replacing it with a Jewish state. They fit the description of alien as defined above. They were considered foreigners. And since they were there to overthrow Palestine, invaders would not be an inaccurate term.

No Jew is a foreigner to Israel. We pray for Israel 3x a day, and after every meal. From the age of 5, we learn about Israel in Hebrew school all of our lives. Our ancestors are buried there, and the coins, pottery and architecture tell of our history. Even during the centuries when the Turks ruled, our history there continued as Kabballah developed in the city of Sefad. Grooms remember Jerusalem during the wedding ceremony. There are 4 fast-days per year corresponding to Jerusalem's destruction. All your abstract philosophy about Palestine will never drive out us "foreigners".

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The idea that there is some international law or consensus that extends the indigenous Palestinian greater rights and freedoms over the legitimate immigrant is clearly erroneous; both as a mental exercise and as humanitarian ideal.

POINT #2: The Jewish people in the former Mandate of Palestine were not foreigners in the sense that they spontaneously arrived or invaded the Mandate.

This is the US definition but it is a basic that should apply anywhere.

These related terms are often used in deliberately confusing and conflicting ways. Here is a set of definitions that will help you sort out the difference.

IMMIGRANT: In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant

There were Jews in Palestine who had different status.

• Those who had lived there forever.

• Those who moved to Palestine (immigrants as defined above) to live in the holy land.

These are the Jews who are considered by the Palestinians to be legitimate Palestinian citizens. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Then there were Jews who were literally imported by the foreign Zionists, by the boatload, for the purpose of overthrowing Palestine and replacing it with a Jewish state. They fit the description of alien as defined above. They were considered foreigners. And since they were there to overthrow Palestine, invaders would not be an inaccurate term.

No Jew is a foreigner to Israel. We pray for Israel 3x a day, and after every meal. From the age of 5, we learn about Israel in Hebrew school all of our lives. Our ancestors are buried there, and the coins, pottery and architecture tell of our history. Even during the centuries when the Turks ruled, our history there continued as Kabballah developed in the city of Sefad. Grooms remember Jerusalem during the wedding ceremony. There are 4 fast-days per year corresponding to Jerusalem's destruction. All your abstract philosophy about Palestine will never drive out us "foreigners".[/QUOTE

In the words of your own people, Lipush,

אין לי ארץ אחרת !!

- Jeri

 

[P F Tinmore]

The idea that there is some international law or consensus that extends the indigenous Palestinian greater rights and freedoms over the legitimate immigrant is clearly erroneous; both as a mental exercise and as humanitarian ideal.

POINT #2: The Jewish people in the former Mandate of Palestine were not foreigners in the sense that they spontaneously arrived or invaded the Mandate.

This is the US definition but it is a basic that should apply anywhere.

These related terms are often used in deliberately confusing and conflicting ways. Here is a set of definitions that will help you sort out the difference.

IMMIGRANT: In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant

There were Jews in Palestine who had different status.

• Those who had lived there forever.

• Those who moved to Palestine (immigrants as defined above) to live in the holy land.

These are the Jews who are considered by the Palestinians to be legitimate Palestinian citizens. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Then there were Jews who were literally imported by the foreign Zionists, by the boatload, for the purpose of overthrowing Palestine and replacing it with a Jewish state. They fit the description of alien as defined above. They were considered foreigners. And since they were there to overthrow Palestine, invaders would not be an inaccurate term.

No Jew is a foreigner to Israel. We pray for Israel 3x a day, and after every meal. From the age of 5, we learn about Israel in Hebrew school all of our lives. Our ancestors are buried there, and the coins, pottery and architecture tell of our history. Even during the centuries when the Turks ruled, our history there continued as Kabballah developed in the city of Sefad. Grooms remember Jerusalem during the wedding ceremony. There are 4 fast-days per year corresponding to Jerusalem's destruction. All your abstract philosophy about Palestine will never drive out us "foreigners".

The Jews are only one of the many peoples who have the right to live in Palestine.

There is no historical precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.

Of course your post sidesteps my post.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This is the US definition but it is a basic that should apply anywhere.


There were Jews in Palestine who had different status.

• Those who had lived there forever.

• Those who moved to Palestine (immigrants as defined above) to live in the holy land.

These are the Jews who are considered by the Palestinians to be legitimate Palestinian citizens. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Then there were Jews who were literally imported by the foreign Zionists, by the boatload, for the purpose of overthrowing Palestine and replacing it with a Jewish state. They fit the description of alien as defined above. They were considered foreigners. And since they were there to overthrow Palestine, invaders would not be an inaccurate term.

No Jew is a foreigner to Israel. We pray for Israel 3x a day, and after every meal. From the age of 5, we learn about Israel in Hebrew school all of our lives. Our ancestors are buried there, and the coins, pottery and architecture tell of our history. Even during the centuries when the Turks ruled, our history there continued as Kabballah developed in the city of Sefad. Grooms remember Jerusalem during the wedding ceremony. There are 4 fast-days per year corresponding to Jerusalem's destruction. All your abstract philosophy about Palestine will never drive out us "foreigners".[/QUOTE

In the words of your own people, Lipush,

אין לי ארץ אחרת !!

- Jeri

Note* That is the Hebrew spelling. English spelling is "Ayn lee eretz acheret."

Shalom!

-Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

p.s. I will leave it to you, Lipush, to interpret that one for "George" in case he is "Curious"...


Smiling while typing........

J.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip; et al,

George! Where do you get this stuff?

Rocco...al-Qa'ida translates as "the base", shorthand for CIA database.

(COMMENT)

The name, "al-Qaeda" (The Base), refers to the foundation upon which the belief is built.

Honestly, it has no association to a post, camp or station of the CIA; or any facility whatsoever.

Any "support" for indigenous Afghan resistance to the Soviet invasion was another response to what President Eisenhower and his staff called the "campaign of hatred against us in the Arab world." Not that Arab governments hated their rich western benefactors, but rather the Arab people hated us for imposing and sustaining those rich, corrupt elites who chose to inflict an extremist version of Islam upon their population.

(COMMENT)

The Afghan are not Arab. They are a mix heritage of Irano-Afghan and Eurasian (mixed Caucasian/Asian). Not (repeat) not Arab. (I've been there.)

The US support was rendered to halt Soviet Aggression, and not a campaign of any sort directed towards the Arab.

I would not presume to speak on behalf of General Eisenhower, but I doubt very much that he even had Afghanistan on his radar as either the Supreme Allied Commander, or as POTUS. I do know that General Einsenhower knew the difference between Arabs and Afghanis.

Israel allowed Hamas to build mosques, clubs, schools, and libraries in Gaza for the exact same reason, as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the PLO who saw clearly the role Israel played in the western corporate domination of Near East oil.

(COMMENT)

The discovery of the Leviathan Gas & Oil Field, Mediterranean Sea (vicinity of Lebanon, Israel, Gaza Strip) was made in 2010, base on the region survey pursued by a number of exploration teams during the period 2002-2006. The center of the 32,000 sq mi discovery is located approximately 80 miles west of Haifa, at a depth of 5,400 feet of water in the Levantine Basin.

The Hamas al-Qassam Brigades formed in 1992, making Hamas an very well organized terrorist activity a decade before the surveys even began, and nearly two decades before the discovery.

There is no relationship between the start-up period for Hamas, and the initial security assessment of Hamas as a threat -- with the -- gas and oil discoveries in the basin. Nor was there then, or now, a relationship between corporate exploration and exploitation of the find, relative to Hamas or its activities.

There are any number of Americans who reject elementary moral standards: specifically, if an action is right for us, it is right for others; if it is wrong for others it is wrong for us.

They believe their acts are justified by power.

(COMMENT)

I don't know about that. There is an argument to be made.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

Rocco...Iran did not create Hamas:

"With its takeover of Gaza after the 1967 war with Egypt, Israel hunted down secular Palestinian Liberation Organization factions but dropped the previous Egyptian rulers' harsh restrictions against Islamic activists.[8]

"In fact, Israel for many years tolerated and at times encouraged Islamic activists and groups as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the PLO and its dominant faction, Fatah.[8][9]

"Among the activists benefited was Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza, who had also formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya in 1973, a charity recognized by Israel in 1979. Israel allowed the organization to build mosques, clubs, schools, and a library in Gaza.[8][10]"

Blowback (intelligence) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you noticed how US funding for al-Qa'ida in the 1980s and Israel's creation of Hamas serve the interests of those who get rich from war and debt today?

Oh... so now Israel created Hamas?

Okay.....

[backing away slowly so as not to startle the crazy person]

Why aren't you backing away from the "enormous, stupid, mistake..." of creeping annexation?

"Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor's bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile's trajectory back to an 'enormous, stupid mistake' made 30 years ago.

"'Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation,' says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades.

"Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.

"Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah.

"Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with 'Yassins,' primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric."

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ.com

 

[georgephillip]

"The name comes from the Arabic noun qā'idah, which means foundation or basis, and can also refer to a military base. The initial al- is the Arabic definite article the, hence the base.[65]

"Bin Laden explained the origin of the term in a videotaped interview with Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Alouni in October 2001:

"The name 'al-Qaeda' was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al-Qaeda. The name stayed.[66]

"It has been argued that two documents seized from the Sarajevo office of the Benevolence International Foundation prove that the name was not simply adopted by the mujahid movement and that a group called al-Qaeda was established in August 1988.

"Both of these documents contain minutes of meetings held to establish a new military group, and contain the term 'al-Qaeda'".[67]

Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook wrote that the word al-Qaeda should be translated as 'the database', and originally referred to the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen militants who were recruited and trained with CIA help to defeat the Russians.[68]

"In April 2002, the group assumed the name Qa'idat al-Jihad, which means 'the base of Jihad'".

"According to Diaa Rashwan, this was 'apparently as a result of the merger of the overseas branch of Egypt's al-Jihad (Egyptian Islamist Jihad, or EIJ) group, led by Ayman al-Zawahiri, with the groups Bin Laden brought under his control after his return to Afghanistan in the mid-1990s.'"[69]

Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

Yes, yes.

"The name comes from the Arabic noun qā'idah, which means foundation or basis, and can also refer to a military base. The initial al- is the Arabic definite article the, hence the base.[65]

"Bin Laden explained the origin of the term in a videotaped interview with Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Alouni in October 2001:

Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

Yes, the name is very old. If you watch the interview of Osama bin Laden (ObL), you will see him mention the name "Abu Ubaidah Al Panshiri (AaP) (Egyptian: 1950 - 1996 Lake Victoria Incident);" from which the original name of al-Qaeda is derivative. In watching the interview, advance to 3:40 and you will see the reference .

[ame="http://youtu.be/WJImrztINp0"]Interview of Osama bin Laden by Tayseer Allouni with English Subtitles Part 4/6[/ame]

AaP was to become the second most powerful man in al-Qaeda. But in the beginning of the anti-Russian Resistance, AaP fought on the side of the United Islamic Front (UIF) (AKA: The Northern Alliance) and was probably responsible for the assassination of Ahmad Shah Massoud (AKA: UIF Leader Lion of Panjshir), killed by al-Qaeda. No one really knows what the term meant when AaP coined the name "al-Qaeda" in August 1988 at the very first meeting of al-Qaeda. At that time, what we do know is how Mamdouh Mahmud Salim (MMS)(Co-founder of al-Qaeda) established a Majlis al-Shura component with al-Qaeda (religious body for the caliphate) which he used to purchase training camps, guesthouses, and warehouses in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The name al-Qaeda was not a single base name, but a name that MMS used to articulate the entire network of his managed assets. It is believed that the original Majlis al-Shura (as a group) approved the working name "al-Qaeda" proposed by AaP.

But for sure, it had nothing to do with the US or the CIA.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

Yes, yes.

"The name comes from the Arabic noun qā'idah, which means foundation or basis, and can also refer to a military base. The initial al- is the Arabic definite article the, hence the base.[65]

"Bin Laden explained the origin of the term in a videotaped interview with Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Alouni in October 2001:

Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

Yes, the name is very old. If you watch the interview of Osama bin Laden (ObL), you will see him mention the name "Abu Ubaidah Al Panshiri (AaP) (Egyptian: 1950 - 1996 Lake Victoria Incident);" from which the original name of al-Qaeda is derivative. In watching the interview, advance to 3:40 and you will see the reference .

[ame="http://youtu.be/WJImrztINp0"]Interview of Osama bin Laden by Tayseer Allouni with English Subtitles Part 4/6[/ame]

AaP was to become the second most powerful man in al-Qaeda. But in the beginning of the anti-Russian Resistance, AaP fought on the side of the United Islamic Front (UIF) (AKA: The Northern Alliance) and was probably responsible for the assassination of Ahmad Shah Massoud (AKA: UIF Leader Lion of Panjshir), killed by al-Qaeda. No one really knows what the term meant when AaP coined the name "al-Qaeda" in August 1988 at the very first meeting of al-Qaeda. At that time, what we do know is how Mamdouh Mahmud Salim (MMS)(Co-founder of al-Qaeda) established a Majlis al-Shura component with al-Qaeda (religious body for the caliphate) which he used to purchase training camps, guesthouses, and warehouses in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The name al-Qaeda was not a single base name, but a name that MMS used to articulate the entire network of his managed assets. It is believed that the original Majlis al-Shura (as a group) approved the working name "al-Qaeda" proposed by AaP.

But for sure, it had nothing to do with the US or the CIA.

Most Respectfully,
R

In the exact same way the CIA or the US had nothing to do with

"Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989..."?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

I already said, the US provided support to the Mujahideen.

In the exact same way the CIA or the US had nothing to do with

"Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989..."?

(COMMENT)

This is no revelation; and I didn't say the US didn't support the Mujahideen. When I retired in '89; this was on the nightly news.

But the Mujahideen and al-Qaeda are two different elements. The al-Qaeda was then and is now, still parasitic in many operations.

Now, back to the topic?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

I already said, the US provided support to the Mujahideen.

In the exact same way the CIA or the US had nothing to do with

"Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989..."?

(COMMENT)

This is no revelation; and I didn't say the US didn't support the Mujahideen. When I retired in '89; this was on the nightly news.

But the Mujahideen and al-Qaeda are two different elements. The al-Qaeda was then and is now, still parasitic in many operations.

Now, back to the topic?

Most Respectfully,
R

I've lost track, Rocco.
What topic was that?

 

[toastman]

georgephillip, et al,

I already said, the US provided support to the Mujahideen.

In the exact same way the CIA or the US had nothing to do with

"Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989..."?

(COMMENT)

This is no revelation; and I didn't say the US didn't support the Mujahideen. When I retired in '89; this was on the nightly news.

But the Mujahideen and al-Qaeda are two different elements. The al-Qaeda was then and is now, still parasitic in many operations.

Now, back to the topic?

Most Respectfully,
R

I've lost track, Rocco.
What topic was that?

Read the OP

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

No Jew is a foreigner to Israel. We pray for Israel 3x a day, and after every meal. From the age of 5, we learn about Israel in Hebrew school all of our lives. Our ancestors are buried there, and the coins, pottery and architecture tell of our history. Even during the centuries when the Turks ruled, our history there continued as Kabballah developed in the city of Sefad. Grooms remember Jerusalem during the wedding ceremony. There are 4 fast-days per year corresponding to Jerusalem's destruction. All your abstract philosophy about Palestine will never drive out us "foreigners".[/QUOTE

In the words of your own people, Lipush,

אין לי ארץ אחרת !!

- Jeri

Note* That is the Hebrew spelling. English spelling is "Ayn lee eretz acheret."

Shalom!

-Jeri

I adore the song, it always brings tears to my eyes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLsiFfv6K6E]I Have No Other Country ! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It is beautiful, SweetCaroline. I love the History of the Jews better than other history on earth. It is so rich and full! The battles, the love stories, the 4,000 yr old history of Israel and her people. It is just mind blowing, even your ancient language. Intact. Everything. Perfect. Such a beautiful story. G-d bless Israel and her people!

- Jeremiah

 

[Osomir]

This is directed primarily to the anti-Israel/pro-"Palestinian" posters...

1. Do you believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel?

I believe that Israel has a right to exist, and that Jewish peoples should have a right to live in it. I don't particularly care for the "Jewish" qualifier here though. I generally disagree with any country set-up that places one religion or ethnic groups above all others.

2. The Old City of Jerusalem should be under (a) Israeli control; (b) Jordanian control; (c) Palestinian control; or (d) International control?

I tend to feel that it should either be split (Israel west Jerusalem, Palestine east Jerusalem). Or administered as an international city.

3. Do you believe that a viable "2 state solution" can include a "Palestinian right of return" to Israel?

I treat the Right of Return as a separate issue from the two state solution. I know it is often intertwined in two state dialogue, but it really doesn't have much to do with larger item issues such as border discussions and settlement expansion.

overall, I'm in favor of a limited right of return for family reunification purposes with compensation for the property confiscated under the emergency land laws and absenty landowner laws.

4. Rocket fire from Gaza into Israel constitutes (a) terrorist activity, or (b) legitimate resistence.

Indiscriminate attacks against large population clusters and attacks on civilians are not justifiable and such actions by the Al Qassam Brigade constitute acts of terror.

5. Do you believe that the majority of those who consider themselves "Palestinians" support a "two-state solution" resulting in a peaceful coexistence with a Jewish State of Israel?

Absolutely, public polling data has supported this time and again, not only the desire for a two state solution, but the desire for reconciliation with Israel as well.