Debate Now A discussion about the efficacy of Trump's merit based criteria for immigration eligibility

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by usmbguest5318, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    3 million H1-Bs replaced Americans in good paying IT & software development positions.
     
  2. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Most Indian H1-Bs do not speak English.
     
  3. Scott1952
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    Scott1952 Rookie

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    When I was in graduate school we had visiting students from Iran, Sudan, Argentina and Mexico, usually for about a year. They had trouble speaking English but they were excellent in reading and writingEnglish. Plus, If they are at a graduate school level, most scholarly articles are not translated to Sundanese. The are usually in English French, German, Spanish sometimes and Russian, Chineseis big now.
     
  4. Scott1952
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    Scott1952 Rookie

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    That is because most H1B visas from India was bringing in workers to work in their family business. Sometime bad Businesses see attached: Lakireddy Bali Reddy - Importer of Sex Slaves
     
  5. Unkotare
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    Unkotare Diamond Member

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    Proof?
     
  6. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    He's not going to have any. The simple fact is that the Indians who come to the U.S. to work on H1B visas are among the so-called elite of India -- anyone who's got a college degree -- and they all speak fluent English. (They have to. What U.S. business would sponsor them for an H1B visa if they didn't speak English?) They may speak it with an accent and at a pace that makes it sometimes hard for our American-English-accustomed ears to readily understand until we get used to it, but it's fluent English that they speak.
     
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  7. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I have worked with many of them.
    Their English is horrendous and their code sucks.
    Ever notice how often you have to update their Apps due to bugs?
    They are cheap labor.
     
  8. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    Actually, no. Have you considered that your development lifecycle methodology, and your colleagues/bosses execution of it is less than first rate?

    The people who staff my projects write excellent functional program specification and test plan documents and the Indian developers and non-Indian developers use those documents to write code that does exactly what the program specs instruct and that performs as expected when the code is tested prior to being implemented.

    I'm sure there are subpar Indian developers, but those developers are not among the thousands employed in my firms off-shore development unit and the hundreds of Indian developers whom I've staffed on myriad projects I've managed over the past 20+ years.
     
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  9. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Bullshit.
    Don't even try going there.
    Or perhaps the people who write the specs are mediocre.
    Too bad there's way too much bad code out there for you to hide the truth.
    I have too many business people in my neighborhood who say otherwise and many of them are high up in financial firms.
    Indians are cheap as all hell and that's why the Board of Directors caters to their investors,
     
  10. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    I've no interest in getting into a "pissing match" with you about the quality of Indian developers.

    There are plenty of legitimate reasons for the differences in yours and my observations.

    One of the more likely ones is that my firm is a consulting firm and as such our development subsidiary in India competes with firms like TCS, Google and Infosys for newly minted computer science graduates. In the parent firm we hire no junior-level developers (programmers having fewer than six years of programming experience with a given set of languages).

    The parent firm's career path is "up or out," which means that even if one's career is primarily technical, within a predefined period, one must make partner/principal or leave, and upon making partner, the only way one is going to write code is if there's literally nobody else around and there is literally no other alternative. Another business-model-driven reason we don't in the parent firm hire entry level programmes is because we bill technical consultants at rates well over $100/hr, and our project timelines assume a level of expertise that, if the developers don't exhibit it as we principals expect/assume they will, it'd be impossible to deliver projects on time and within budget. Our clients would not appreciate that and firm revenue and our client base would suffer as a result.

    Since I've mentioned the above, in the interest of completeness and accuracy, I'll also note the overwhelming majority of Indians I've worked with in the U.S. are not H1B visa holders, but rather L1B visa ("specialized knowledge" employee transfer) holders. We do also have some H1B holders too, but far fewer than L1Bs. Be that as it may, the type of visa has nothing to do with the holders' skills and abilities.
     

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