Debate Now A discussion about the efficacy of Trump's merit based criteria for immigration eligibility

[Weatherman2020]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Well, now that the low skilled immigrants will no longer be here to pick oranges for us, the farmers can try to recruit Americans who are willing to do that. They will not find many. On the other hand, the Middle Class will have to start competing for jobs in skilled professions, like coding for Microsoft. It will be like the Vietnam refugees who came over and took jobs from Americans in almost every sector back in the 1970's. In fact, There are few fishermen fishing the Gulf of Mexico from Louisiana, who are not Vietnamese. This, of course, will lead to further antagonistic attitudes toward immigrants. I consider it to be yet another fail by Trump to think things through.

Legal and illegal immigrants= apples and oranges. Two entirely different subjects.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

 

[usmbguest5318]

While I agree with the president that immigrants to this country should bring something to the table, this seems like an expansion of the H1-B program, and the people will be competing with American technicians, engineers, and scientists for jobs.

It does seem that way. I don't see what good that will do most Americans as comparatively few Americans are "technicians, engineers, and scientists" or some other similarly highly skilled worker. Quite simply, for example, more or fewer immigrant engineers isn't going to make any difference to U.S. citizen workers/job applicants who don't qualify for an engineering position.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, insofar as you made the claim you did, I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)

If you cannot support your claim, you are welcome to retract it.​

 

[Weatherman2020]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, you made the claim you made. I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)​

You quoted past immigration policies of America. Not all of them, you left out the ones that used to ban non Europeans.

And if it is so easy for people to immigrate to Monaco, let them. I will not object.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, insofar as you made the claim you did, I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)

If you cannot support your claim, you are welcome to retract it.​

The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and Alien Contract Labor laws of 1885 and 1887 prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States. The general Immigration Act of 1882 levied a head tax of fifty cents on each immigrant and blocked (or excluded) the entry of "idiots, lunatics, convicts, and persons likely to become a public charge". In other words they blocked leftists.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, you made the claim you made. I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)​

You quoted past immigration policies of America. Not all of them, you left out the ones that used to ban non Europeans.

And if it is so easy for people to immigrate to Monaco, let them. I will not object.

Be that as it may, it doesn't corroborate your claim.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, insofar as you made the claim you did, I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)

If you cannot support your claim, you are welcome to retract it.​

The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and Alien Contract Labor laws of 1885 and 1887 prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States. The general Immigration Act of 1882 levied a head tax of fifty cents on each immigrant and blocked (or excluded) the entry of "idiots, lunatics, convicts, and persons likely to become a public charge". In other words they blocked leftists.

Be that as it may, it does not corroborate your claim.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, you made the claim you made. I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)​

You quoted past immigration policies of America. Not all of them, you left out the ones that used to ban non Europeans.

And if it is so easy for people to immigrate to Monaco, let them. I will not object.

Be that as it may, it doesn't corroborate your claim.

Not my problem to make you aware that just because a practice existed that it does not mean it should be maintained throughout eternity.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, you made the claim you made. I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)​

You quoted past immigration policies of America. Not all of them, you left out the ones that used to ban non Europeans.

And if it is so easy for people to immigrate to Monaco, let them. I will not object.

Be that as it may, it doesn't corroborate your claim.

Not my problem to make you aware that just because a practice existed that it does not mean it should be maintained throughout eternity.

I don't care whether you make me aware of anything. I care and am asking you to corroborate your claim, which you have yet to do, thus making it empty and unfounded, therefore irrelevant.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there.

Prior to Trump's edict, the U.S. used the following criteria for determining who qualified to immigrate to the U.S. and commence the process of obtaining permanent resident and/or citizen status.

• How the United States Immigration System Works

I'm not sure how the family status aspect has changed as a result of Trump's edict.

This is how the UK does it: Immigration points-based systems compared - BBC News.

I can't say what are the requirements for all other nations. Have you a document that details the criteria (as done in the linked article) for almost every other other nation? You made the assertion; I'm merely asking you to corroborate it with credible facts.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

We voted for change.

As a famous community organizer once said - elections have consequences.

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?

My moving to New Zealand requires me to either have a full time job there or $1.5M in the bank.

Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, you made the claim you made. I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)​

You quoted past immigration policies of America. Not all of them, you left out the ones that used to ban non Europeans.

And if it is so easy for people to immigrate to Monaco, let them. I will not object.

Be that as it may, it doesn't corroborate your claim.

Not my problem to make you aware that just because a practice existed that it does not mean it should be maintained throughout eternity.

I don't care whether you make me aware of anything. I care and am asking you to corroborate your claim, which you have yet to do, thus making it empty and unfounded, therefore irrelevant.

We voted for change. If you need corroboration of that you should be posting over at Nickelodeon.

 

[usmbguest5318]

??? What? How does that relate to the comments to which it is a response, i.e., my post quoted above?



Okay. So now we have information for three countries --the two I provided and the one you just did. That's a long way from "almost every nation [having] financial and job skill requirements" which is what you asserted. I realize that all countries have some sort of requirement(s). What I don't know is what and how many countries have "financial and job skill requirements" as contrasted with any other kind of requirement. I know, for example, Monaco has neither a skills nor job requirement, but it does have requirements.

As I asked before, you made the claim you made. I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

​

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)​

You quoted past immigration policies of America. Not all of them, you left out the ones that used to ban non Europeans.

And if it is so easy for people to immigrate to Monaco, let them. I will not object.

Be that as it may, it doesn't corroborate your claim.

Not my problem to make you aware that just because a practice existed that it does not mean it should be maintained throughout eternity.

I don't care whether you make me aware of anything. I care and am asking you to corroborate your claim, which you have yet to do, thus making it empty and unfounded, therefore irrelevant.

We voted for change. If you need corroboration of that you should be posting over at Nickelodeon.

Your claim has nothing to do with whether anyone voted for change. Are you going to support it or not?

As I asked before, insofar as you made the claim you did, I just want, per the thread rules, that you support it with sound and credible content. What was your claim? This:

"Almost every nation on earth has financial and job skill requirements for you to immigrate there."

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying corroborate your claim. (If I knew whether you're correct or not, I wouldn't ask you to support your claim.)

If you cannot support your claim, you are welcome to retract it.

 

[longknife]

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

Sort of the whole point of the policy, isn't it? They don't function effectively, so some level of proficiency in the language is a requirement.

Okay. No argument it helps to speak English when you are living in a country that is de facto an English speaking country (although we will not, for political reason, call it our "official" language).
It seems the whole point of the policy is to eliminate as much as possible the unskilled workers who are stealing jobs from unskilled Americans. Trump wants to put African American drop outs to work in the lettuce fields, I guess. Stephen Miller seemed to feel this would be quite a boon to them and all the other unskilled Americans currently out of work and collecting welfare.

Trump said that to you or the nation, or is that just an emotional response. I don't recall Trump or anyone saying they wanted to put blacks in the lettuce fields. This is what I refer to as 'issue creep'.

Since the focus of the policy cannot be effectively argued against, the discussion moves to outlier and unrelated topics that have, at best, a tertiary connection to the topic.

Simply put, allowing immigrants into this country as permanent citizens (Please note that this entire policy is focused on ONLY green card policy) absolutely must benefit this country. That is achieved by having;

1. An immigrant that will not require any social aid. They have skills we don't have to provide, and they can very quickly (should be a requirement in My opinion) get a job that supports them and the family they bring with them.

2. They quickly or immediately begin to contribute to the tax base and community.

3. They have one of the largest barriers to assimilation removed by understanding the language.

Since the quota is being limited to 500,000k per year, they won't overwhelm the middle class but will promote a healthy competition for everyone. A good thing to have.

I don't see much to complain about in this aspect of immigration reform.

The biggest plus is that it is not 'comprehensive' reform, which is just D.C. speak for a slush fund.

Do you know what "green card" means? Is that temporary or permanent or do they both get them as workers? Is the H1-B visa program separate?

A Green Card's duration is 10 years and it's for Registered Aliens.

 

[longknife]

The main purpose of the program is to try to get aliens with skills lacking here in America to come here. Doctors are a good example, especially in rural areas. American MDs generally want to work in big cities with income in the mid- to high six figures.

 

[Vandalshandle]

This is just Trump doubling down on his base's xenophobia. First, demonize illegal immigrants, and build a wall across the Southern border. Then ban immigrants from "terrorists" nations (which, oddly enough, does not include Saudi Arabia, where almost all the 9/11 hijackers came from). Then, put the travel embargo back on Cuba. Then, ban poor immigrants from all nations. Yet, in spite of this, his base is starting to melt away. I guess that next, he will ban immigrants from all nations, except where he has business interests. If his poll numbers continue to slip, look for a preemptive was on North Korea.

 

[9thIDdoc]

This is just Trump doubling down on his base's xenophobia. First, demonize illegal immigrants, and build a wall across the Southern border. Then ban immigrants from "terrorists" nations (which, oddly enough, does not include Saudi Arabia, where almost all the 9/11 hijackers came from). Then, put the travel embargo back on Cuba. Then, ban poor immigrants from all nations. Yet, in spite of this, his base is starting to melt away. I guess that next, he will ban immigrants from all nations, except where he has business interests. If his poll numbers continue to slip, look for a preemptive was on North Korea.

You're right, we should include SA.

 

[Flash]

But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

How is it xenophobic to want to restrict the people that come to this country and have to go on welfare because they don't have the skills or language to get and keep a job?

Isn't that common sense?

 

[Scott1952]

And what is Stephen Miller doing taking a press briefing? Holy Toledo, another total hothead administration spokesman? Sarah Sanders should NOT be allowed to take any days off. Ever.

I kind of liked his outburst. Acosta ran away like a little puppy then tried to cover-up his error later with lame excuses. Does Acosta not know >60 countries have English as a first language and hundreds of others are bi lingual. Ever since the invention of the video Cassettes and satellite dish the most remove countries in the world have been watching and listening to English HOLLYWOOD movies.