"A balanced presentation is NOT possible"

[Humanity]

Unfortunately this is a rather long presentation by an Israeli Jew but it is, MOSTLY, a worthwhile watch.

There are some questionable statements made, I will let you find those yourself, but for an interesting presentation and then a Q&A after the presentation, for me, it was worth an hour of my time...

Starting out with the "right to return" and then going through the many topics that 'divide' thought between Pro Palestinian and Pro Israeli.

 

[Lipush]

Gees.

 

[Humanity]

Did you watch it Lipush?

 

[Lipush]

Yes. It was posted here multiple times.
By you. Repeatedly
Gah.

 

[Humanity]

1) Want to show me where I have posted it multiple times Lippy?
2) Got no comment on the video?

I found the video informative and enlightening....

It certainly throws a very different perspective on the whole issue. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Lipush]

Concerning the right of return, as long as the Palestinians are acting to openly destroy the state of Israel, that thing canno be discussed.

You know what, though? Sure, let's discuss this funny thing.

When you say "Palestinian right of return," what exactly are you saying?

Because remind you, the nations worlwide are so enthusiastic about "Palestinian state" they want to create, most of them say, in the 67' borders, right? So, let's say this happens. They expel 400,000 Jews out of their home in Judeah and Samaria, and declare East Jerusalem ans Judeah And Samaria the new 'Palestine'.

Cool? Cool.

But hey, that's not what they say! They say, "but wait a minute! my home was in Jaffa, in Sheikh Monis! that's where I want my right of return to be!".... so what happens, we let the Palestinians into their "homes" inside the borders, in Tel Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa etc.

So what right of return? If there is a Palestine in Gaza, Palestine in the West Bank, but wait, now we let them into Tel Aviv, lets make it all one big "PALESTINE", so what gives? where is Israel?

It creates 3 Palestine and 0 state for the Jews. So again, which "right of return" are you speaking of, and, accepting that, how can you ensure the safety of the Jews?

 

[Lipush]

There was no "Palestine" to erease in previously to 1967. There was no Palestine at all, Palestine was never a state. It was a territory ruled by the british occupier. When you say "Palestine" you mean the same territorial strip that the Philisitines took over, in their exile from Europe, and named it after themselves in an attempt to mock the original native people of that land. Arab clans arriving there adopted the identity of "Palestinians", but that was far from the case.

People say "Palestinians" refering the Arabs who were "ethnic cleansed". That's inaccurate. My grandmother's ID says "Palestinian" and she was a Jew. By all standards, I AM a palestinian myself. There are thousands of Israelis who are infact "palestinians" by definition, but since there was no accurate Palestinian "identity" since Palestinians of that time were Arabs, Jews, Christians, and all other ethnic groups, the definition of a "Palestinian" nowdays is a total hoax.

 

[Kondor3]

The world holds a great many Chamberlains and Lavals and Petains and Quislings and Benedict Arnolds and Tokyo Roses...

Weaklings, fifth-columnists, useful idiots and even traitors.

The world holds a great many people who lose heart and who lose courage in the face of the Enemy and his numbers.

Each of us must reach down deep inside, to determine whether we will Stand or whether we will Lie Down and be Overrun.

A nation whose majority decides the former (Stand) will survive and thrive.

A nation whose majority decides the latter (Lie Down) will weaken and wither and die.

Like people, each Nation must decide this for itself.

This pampered scion of Israeli General has apparently turned sour, and decided otherwise.

Unfortunate, but not indicative of any sort of broad trend.

 

[Challenger]

Concerning the right of return, as long as the Palestinians are acting to openly destroy the state of Israel, that thing canno be discussed.

You know what, though? Sure, let's discuss this funny thing.

When you say "Palestinian right of return," what exactly are you saying?

Because remind you, the nations worlwide are so enthusiastic about "Palestinian state" they want to create, most of them say, in the 67' borders, right? So, let's say this happens. They expel 400,000 Jews out of their home in Judeah and Samaria, and declare East Jerusalem ans Judeah And Samaria the new 'Palestine'.

Cool? Cool.

But hey, that's not what they say! They say, "but wait a minute! my home was in Jaffa, in Sheikh Monis! that's where I want my right of return to be!".... so what happens, we let the Palestinians into their "homes" inside the borders, in Tel Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa etc.

So what right of return? If there is a Palestine in Gaza, Palestine in the West Bank, but wait, now we let them into Tel Aviv, lets make it all one big "PALESTINE", so what gives? where is Israel?

It creates 3 Palestine and 0 state for the Jews. So again, which "right of return" are you speaking of, and, accepting that, how can you ensure the safety of the Jews?

So would you object to all these "returnees" if they all agreed to become Israeli citizens?

 

[Kondor3]

...So would you object to all these "returnees" if they all agreed to become Israeli citizens?

Can't answer for our colleague(s), but, in their shoes, I certainly would object, and bar the way.

Why?

Too much blood has been spilled - and Muslims perceive that they are following religious precepts sometimes when they lie to Infidels - and they are not to be trusted, long-term, under any circumstances.

That window of opportunity closed - a couple of decades ago, or more.

Right of Return is off the table - and has been - for a long time, now.

Despite what some of these flaky light-in-the-loafers types think.

 

[Humanity]

Concerning the right of return, as long as the Palestinians are acting to openly destroy the state of Israel, that thing canno be discussed.

You know what, though? Sure, let's discuss this funny thing.

When you say "Palestinian right of return," what exactly are you saying?

Because remind you, the nations worlwide are so enthusiastic about "Palestinian state" they want to create, most of them say, in the 67' borders, right? So, let's say this happens. They expel 400,000 Jews out of their home in Judeah and Samaria, and declare East Jerusalem ans Judeah And Samaria the new 'Palestine'.

Cool? Cool.

But hey, that's not what they say! They say, "but wait a minute! my home was in Jaffa, in Sheikh Monis! that's where I want my right of return to be!".... so what happens, we let the Palestinians into their "homes" inside the borders, in Tel Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa etc.

So what right of return? If there is a Palestine in Gaza, Palestine in the West Bank, but wait, now we let them into Tel Aviv, lets make it all one big "PALESTINE", so what gives? where is Israel?

It creates 3 Palestine and 0 state for the Jews. So again, which "right of return" are you speaking of, and, accepting that, how can you ensure the safety of the Jews?

To deal with the first thing Lipush... Obviously you didn't find my "multiple posts" of this video did you... Because there aren't any!

Second, don't put words into my mouth... I did not say "Palestinian right of return"... That matter does indeed require a lot of thought and consideration on BOTH sides!

The rest of your post is full of the same 'excuses' and 'smoke screens' that is thrown up time and again. If you have watched the video then you know I don't need to repeat them here and in the usual manner, it seems that Israel is the only party who has ANY rights in this issue...

If you watched the video you would find it incredibly difficult to argue the "right or return" and the creation of the state of Israel.

So, it's ok to expel Palestinians from their land, their homes?

I see on this forum many comments comparing Israel to South Africa... I find it difficult not to disagree with many, however, there are some that I cannot consider correct.

However, the "positive discrimination" that has been taking place in South Africa over these past years could easily come to Israel and there would be hell to pay!

 

[Challenger]

Unfortunately this is a rather long presentation by an Israeli Jew but it is, MOSTLY, a worthwhile watch.

There are some questionable statements made, I will let you find those yourself, but for an interesting presentation and then a Q&A after the presentation, for me, it was worth an hour of my time...

Starting out with the "right to return" and then going through the many topics that 'divide' thought between Pro Palestinian and Pro Israeli.

Thanks for this, must get his book.

 

[Humanity]

There was no "Palestine" to erease in previously to 1967. There was no Palestine at all, Palestine was never a state. It was a territory ruled by the british occupier. When you say "Palestine" you mean the same territorial strip that the Philisitines took over, in their exile from Europe, and named it after themselves in an attempt to mock the original native people of that land. Arab clans arriving there adopted the identity of "Palestinians", but that was far from the case.

People say "Palestinians" refering the Arabs who were "ethnic cleansed". That's inaccurate. My grandmother's ID says "Palestinian" and she was a Jew. By all standards, I AM a palestinian myself. There are thousands of Israelis who are infact "palestinians" by definition, but since there was no accurate Palestinian "identity" since Palestinians of that time were Arabs, Jews, Christians, and all other ethnic groups, the definition of a "Palestinian" nowdays is a total hoax.

No well, I think that this bleating statement of "no Palestine" is actually quite boring and another of the Israeli smoke screens...

And you clearly reinforce my comment by your grandmothers ID saying "Palestinian"...

I think that pro Israel supporters need to try and find another drum to beat because the "no Palestine" excuses are dead in the water!

 

[RoccoR]

Humanity, et al,

What is called "Palestine" and what is meant by "Palestinian" depends on the time frame in which it is applied.

There was no "Palestine" to erease in previously to 1967. There was no Palestine at all, Palestine was never a state. It was a territory ruled by the british occupier. When you say "Palestine" you mean the same territorial strip that the Philisitines took over, in their exile from Europe, and named it after themselves in an attempt to mock the original native people of that land. Arab clans arriving there adopted the identity of "Palestinians", but that was far from the case.

People say "Palestinians" refering the Arabs who were "ethnic cleansed". That's inaccurate. My grandmother's ID says "Palestinian" and she was a Jew. By all standards, I AM a palestinian myself. There are thousands of Israelis who are infact "palestinians" by definition, but since there was no accurate Palestinian "identity" since Palestinians of that time were Arabs, Jews, Christians, and all other ethnic groups, the definition of a "Palestinian" nowdays is a total hoax.

No well, I think that this bleating statement of "no Palestine" is actually quite boring and another of the Israeli smoke screens...

And you clearly reinforce my comment by your grandmothers ID saying "Palestinian"...

I think that pro Israel supporters need to try and find another drum to beat because the "no Palestine" excuses are dead in the water!

(COMMENT)

When the British held the Mandate for Palestine, the term "Palestine" meant the territories to which the Mandate applied. This is stipulated in the Palestine Order in Council by definition. And when the Mandatory (the British Government) issued identity cards and Passports, the population (immigrant or indigenous) was identified as "Palestinian." This too, was stipulated in the Palestine Order in Council and the Citizenship Law of 1925.

But that is associated with the Territory to which the Mandate applied. It doesn't mean there was a nation or self-governing institution. And many people in this discussion get this very confused. Prior to 1988, there was no sovereignty called Palestine.

• Mandate of Palestine until 1948; "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
• "After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed."
• "State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988."

Today, the term Palestine and Palestinian refers to the State of Palestine ("Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.") created in 1988, which extends it citizenship to its constituents ... the contemporary "Palestinian." And one must also remember that between 1950 and 1988, the people of the West Bank were legally "Jordanians." Technically speaking, the term effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Lipush]

Concerning the right of return, as long as the Palestinians are acting to openly destroy the state of Israel, that thing canno be discussed.

You know what, though? Sure, let's discuss this funny thing.

When you say "Palestinian right of return," what exactly are you saying?

Because remind you, the nations worlwide are so enthusiastic about "Palestinian state" they want to create, most of them say, in the 67' borders, right? So, let's say this happens. They expel 400,000 Jews out of their home in Judeah and Samaria, and declare East Jerusalem ans Judeah And Samaria the new 'Palestine'.

Cool? Cool.

But hey, that's not what they say! They say, "but wait a minute! my home was in Jaffa, in Sheikh Monis! that's where I want my right of return to be!".... so what happens, we let the Palestinians into their "homes" inside the borders, in Tel Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa etc.

So what right of return? If there is a Palestine in Gaza, Palestine in the West Bank, but wait, now we let them into Tel Aviv, lets make it all one big "PALESTINE", so what gives? where is Israel?

It creates 3 Palestine and 0 state for the Jews. So again, which "right of return" are you speaking of, and, accepting that, how can you ensure the safety of the Jews?

So would you object to all these "returnees" if they all agreed to become Israeli citizens?

Theoretically, it can be a solution that will end the blood shed.

In field? It's never gonna happen.

 

[Lipush]

Concerning the right of return, as long as the Palestinians are acting to openly destroy the state of Israel, that thing canno be discussed.

You know what, though? Sure, let's discuss this funny thing.

When you say "Palestinian right of return," what exactly are you saying?

Because remind you, the nations worlwide are so enthusiastic about "Palestinian state" they want to create, most of them say, in the 67' borders, right? So, let's say this happens. They expel 400,000 Jews out of their home in Judeah and Samaria, and declare East Jerusalem ans Judeah And Samaria the new 'Palestine'.

Cool? Cool.

But hey, that's not what they say! They say, "but wait a minute! my home was in Jaffa, in Sheikh Monis! that's where I want my right of return to be!".... so what happens, we let the Palestinians into their "homes" inside the borders, in Tel Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa etc.

So what right of return? If there is a Palestine in Gaza, Palestine in the West Bank, but wait, now we let them into Tel Aviv, lets make it all one big "PALESTINE", so what gives? where is Israel?

It creates 3 Palestine and 0 state for the Jews. So again, which "right of return" are you speaking of, and, accepting that, how can you ensure the safety of the Jews?

To deal with the first thing Lipush... Obviously you didn't find my "multiple posts" of this video did you... Because there aren't any!

Second, don't put words into my mouth... I did not say "Palestinian right of return"... That matter does indeed require a lot of thought and consideration on BOTH sides!

The rest of your post is full of the same 'excuses' and 'smoke screens' that is thrown up time and again. If you have watched the video then you know I don't need to repeat them here and in the usual manner, it seems that Israel is the only party who has ANY rights in this issue...

If you watched the video you would find it incredibly difficult to argue the "right or return" and the creation of the state of Israel.

So, it's ok to expel Palestinians from their land, their homes?

I see on this forum many comments comparing Israel to South Africa... I find it difficult not to disagree with many, however, there are some that I cannot consider correct.

However, the "positive discrimination" that has been taking place in South Africa over these past years could easily come to Israel and there would be hell to pay!

You didn't discuss the "Palestinian right of return" but in fact you did. The rest of my post is not only NOT boring, but purely cut to the chase, it means accepting a Palestine under their condition means the destruction of my state. and THAT is a no-no. So I ask, what right of return do you mean?

The Palestinian houses in Hebron, Judea and Samaria, great part of them were stolen property from the Jews, so when the Jews "expeled" the Palestinian (which is inaccurate, many of them escaped under the instructions of Arab states, but leave that for another argument), they "expeled" them from many places they never belonged, because those were taken from the Jews between 1920 and 1936.

The South Africa comparison is bullshit. South Africa discriminated people based on skin-color. The separation of two communities here is based on citizenship and security. Security and life is worth more than anything.

Complaining about security motives is like saying that when you forbid abusing men from entering women-shelters is discrimination. Total nonsense.

 

[Lipush]

There was no "Palestine" to erease in previously to 1967. There was no Palestine at all, Palestine was never a state. It was a territory ruled by the british occupier. When you say "Palestine" you mean the same territorial strip that the Philisitines took over, in their exile from Europe, and named it after themselves in an attempt to mock the original native people of that land. Arab clans arriving there adopted the identity of "Palestinians", but that was far from the case.

People say "Palestinians" refering the Arabs who were "ethnic cleansed". That's inaccurate. My grandmother's ID says "Palestinian" and she was a Jew. By all standards, I AM a palestinian myself. There are thousands of Israelis who are infact "palestinians" by definition, but since there was no accurate Palestinian "identity" since Palestinians of that time were Arabs, Jews, Christians, and all other ethnic groups, the definition of a "Palestinian" nowdays is a total hoax.

No well, I think that this bleating statement of "no Palestine" is actually quite boring and another of the Israeli smoke screens...

And you clearly reinforce my comment by your grandmothers ID saying "Palestinian"...

I think that pro Israel supporters need to try and find another drum to beat because the "no Palestine" excuses are dead in the water!

No, in fact, I made my own point. The Palestine they talk about now is a Muslim Arab Palestine.

Chances are, you'll discover bigfoot before finding such Palestine ever existed.

Because it handn't. EVER.

 

[Humanity]

Humanity, et al,

What is called "Palestine" and what is meant by "Palestinian" depends on the time frame in which it is applied.

/QUOTE]

What is called "Israel" and what is meant by "Israel" depends on the time frame in which it is applied.

Most respectfully
H

 

[Humanity]

Concerning the right of return, as long as the Palestinians are acting to openly destroy the state of Israel, that thing canno be discussed.

You know what, though? Sure, let's discuss this funny thing.

When you say "Palestinian right of return," what exactly are you saying?

Because remind you, the nations worlwide are so enthusiastic about "Palestinian state" they want to create, most of them say, in the 67' borders, right? So, let's say this happens. They expel 400,000 Jews out of their home in Judeah and Samaria, and declare East Jerusalem ans Judeah And Samaria the new 'Palestine'.

Cool? Cool.

But hey, that's not what they say! They say, "but wait a minute! my home was in Jaffa, in Sheikh Monis! that's where I want my right of return to be!".... so what happens, we let the Palestinians into their "homes" inside the borders, in Tel Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa etc.

So what right of return? If there is a Palestine in Gaza, Palestine in the West Bank, but wait, now we let them into Tel Aviv, lets make it all one big "PALESTINE", so what gives? where is Israel?

It creates 3 Palestine and 0 state for the Jews. So again, which "right of return" are you speaking of, and, accepting that, how can you ensure the safety of the Jews?

So would you object to all these "returnees" if they all agreed to become Israeli citizens?

Theoretically, it can be a solution that will end the blood shed.

In field? It's never gonna happen.

About the only thing that we seem to agree upon...

It's never gonna happen....

Not in Israel's interest to let it/make it happen!

 

[Kondor3]

...What is called "Israel" and what is meant by "Israel" depends on the time frame in which it is applied...

True.

And, at present, it's "Israel".

With little prospect in sight, of that changing in the foreseeable future.

All hyperbole from the under-performing lost-cause Palestinians notwithstanding.