625K People Give Up Looking For A Job

[B. Kidd]

Ironically, because 'discouraged workers' are dropped from the count of the unemployed, the fact that an ADDITIONAL 600,000 Americans have given up hope of finding work, was actually used to REDUCE the administration's official reported June unemployment rate, from 9.7 percent to 9.5 percent.
If this doesn't clear it up for 'fuzzymath-meisters', nothing will, and they'll continue to lay wet-farts.

 

[B. Kidd]

yup thats the real deal also in 94 I believe the bls changed the way( with a little prompting form you know who) they advertise post the figures....the real unemployment rate is much higher absent this fanciful people gave up dodge.

The uniformed sheep are like wow the unemployment rate went down and we lost jobs...what? duh...no, they just make it appear that way by creating their own benchmark purely for their own ( the party at the time) aggrandizement.

You believe wrongly. The only changes to the definition of Unemployment in 1994 was that people waiting to start a job are no longer counted as unemployed unless they looked for work in the previous 4 weeks, and military were removed from the Population (that had the effect of raising the UE rate). Discouraged workers have NEVER been systematically included. Before 1967 it was included in the definition, but only for areas of particular economic hardship and it was up to the interviewer's discretion.

Now, if you want to claim political hijinxs in the rate, go ahead and present your evidence. You won't find any because it doesn't happen. I doubt you even realize what would be involved to try to manipulate the figures.

what defines a 'discouraged worker'?

DW-those who no longer seek work.

 

[topspin]

Those are the facts republiklans.

 

[Trajan]

You believe wrongly. The only changes to the definition of Unemployment in 1994 was that people waiting to start a job are no longer counted as unemployed unless they looked for work in the previous 4 weeks, and military were removed from the Population (that had the effect of raising the UE rate). Discouraged workers have NEVER been systematically included. Before 1967 it was included in the definition, but only for areas of particular economic hardship and it was up to the interviewer's discretion.

Now, if you want to claim political hijinxs in the rate, go ahead and present your evidence. You won't find any because it doesn't happen. I doubt you even realize what would be involved to try to manipulate the figures.

what defines a 'discouraged worker'?

DW-those who no longer seek work.

uhm yeah I got that...how is this determination derived?

 

[boedicca]

Via the household survey.

 

[B. Kidd]

what defines a 'discouraged worker'?

DW-those who no longer seek work.

uhm yeah I got that...how is this determination derived?

End of May job-stats were 2 million DW's.
End of June job-stats were 2.6 million DW's.
Now 2.6 mill (-) minus 2 mill (=) equals.......

 

[boedicca]

Scary Graph:

CHART OF THE DAY: The Scariest Job Chart Ever Gets Uglier

 

[Trajan]

Via the household survey.

roger that...ala;

Not in the labor force. Included in this group are all persons in the civilian noninstitutional population who are neither employed nor unemployed. Information is collected on their desire for and availability to take a job at the time of the CPS interview, jobsearch activity in the prior year, and reason for not looking for work in the 4-week period ending with the reference week. Persons not in the labor force who want and are available for a job and who have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months (or since the end of their last job if they held one within the past 12 months), but who are not currently looking, are designated as "marginally attached to the labor force."

The marginally attached are divided into those not currently looking because they believe their search would be futile — so-called discouraged workers — and those not currently looking for other reasons such as family responsibilities, ill health, or lack of transportation.


For discouraged workers, the reasons for not currently looking for work are that the individual believes that: No work is available in his or her line of work or area; he or she could not find any work; he or she lacks necessary schooling, training, skills, or experience; employers would think he or she is too young or too old; or he or she would encounter hiring discrimination.

BLS Handbook of Methods: Ch. 1: Labor Force Data Derived from the Current Population Survey

my question was provoked by my own experience in this area, I got laid off last year, and found a job 6 months later. I did not think my chances were great or even very good, but the internet and networking got me there...but at the end of the day what point does this delineation serve? Other than to blow the number back up when folks THINK they have a better shot as they perhaps have or have made themselves more appealing ala more education or skillcraft?

 

[B. Kidd]

Via the household survey.

my question was provoked by my own experience in this area, I got laid off last year, and found a job 6 months later. I did not think my chances were great or even very good, but the internet and networking got me there...but at the end of the day what point does this delineation serve? Other than to blow the number back up when folks THINK they have a better shot as they perhaps have or have made themselves more appealing ala more education or skillcraft?

Congrat's on finding a job!!!

 

[Paulie]

There's plenty of work out there.

really Paulie?

i remain somewhat dubious of that claim

i just don't belive 3 million Americans (or whatever the #) are too lazy, gave up, said screw it , etc here

THAT canard needs to end

the truth is, our Congress sold out to the free traitors, and nothing gets made in America anymore

even the service industry is drying up now

question> how many of you posting here had to actually actively look for employment in the last year or so?

~S~

it depends on what kind of work you're looking for.

Like i said, manual labor jobs are out there. Those who make a living sitting in an office and crunching numbers and typing on a computer and such, are going to have trouble finding work.

Those who can perform manual labor and do it well, will find themselves in a much better position. You have to figure out the things that people need the most, regardless of the economy, and learn how to do those things.

If you have to take a drastic cut in pay to get hired at a job where you can learn those skills, so be it.

Or you can just sit around feeling sorry for yourself because you can't get a job that's related to the college degree you have.

I have no doubt in my mind that a large portion of the unemployed are ignoring potential opportunities because either A: they refuse to take a cut in pay or B: they refuse to do certain kinds of work. That's the difference between today, and back during the great depression. Pride was not an issue in the GD.

 

[boedicca]

That isn't the way it appears to me.

Construction work is not easily found for the many people who were employed during the real estate boom. Actual unemployment is far worse for unskilled workers and those with only high school educations. People with advanced degrees are more likely to be employed.

 

[B. Kidd]

That isn't the way it appears to me.

Construction work is not easily found for the many people who were employed during the real estate boom. Actual unemployment is far worse for unskilled workers and those with only high school educations. People with advanced degrees are more likely to be employed.

Correcto Mundo.

Paulie needs a partisan cracker .

 

[judyd]

There's plenty of work out there.

really Paulie?

i remain somewhat dubious of that claim

i just don't belive 3 million Americans (or whatever the #) are too lazy, gave up, said screw it , etc here

THAT canard needs to end

the truth is, our Congress sold out to the free traitors, and nothing gets made in America anymore

even the service industry is drying up now

question> how many of you posting here had to actually actively look for employment in the last year or so?

~S~

it depends on what kind of work you're looking for.

Like i said, manual labor jobs are out there. Those who make a living sitting in an office and crunching numbers and typing on a computer and such, are going to have trouble finding work.

Those who can perform manual labor and do it well, will find themselves in a much better position. You have to figure out the things that people need the most, regardless of the economy, and learn how to do those things.

If you have to take a drastic cut in pay to get hired at a job where you can learn those skills, so be it.

Or you can just sit around feeling sorry for yourself because you can't get a job that's related to the college degree you have.

I have no doubt in my mind that a large portion of the unemployed are ignoring potential opportunities because either A: they refuse to take a cut in pay or B: they refuse to do certain kinds of work. That's the difference between today, and back during the great depression. Pride was not an issue in the GD.

Have you been looking for work??? Where do you come up with the idea that there are lots of manual jobs to come by?? That is a ridiculous claim, because there just aren't. And if a person is 40 or more, his chances of getting a manual labor job are slim to none.

There are lots of us who have had to swallow our pride and look for lower level jobs--but don't receive consideration because we have too much experience, we made too much money previously--or we're too old.

Don't talk nonsense about something you obviously don't have a clue about. I had been talking back and forth with a woman on another message board who was in Syracuse NY. The last I heard from her, she was being evicted and her mother had just died in Florida, and she didn't have the money to go to her funeral. That's unemployment today! I can't reach this woman now, but I know she was taking every crap temp job she could, just to try to keep a roof over her head. She even tried having a daycare in her home, except the clients lost their jobs!

Start paying attention to what's really going on, before you make nonsensical statements.

 

[Trajan]

Have you been looking for work??? Where do you come up with the idea that there are lots of manual jobs to come by?? That is a ridiculous claim, because there just aren't. And if a person is 40 or more, his chances of getting a manual labor job are slim to none.

thats partially because of the unionized labor pool. By the time you're 40 if you are a manual laborer with any kind of skill you should be in or thinking about going it on your own if possible.

Don't talk nonsense about something you obviously don't have a clue about. I had been talking back and forth with a woman on another message board who was in Syracuse NY. The last I heard from her, she was being evicted and her mother had just died in Florida, and she didn't have the money to go to her funeral. That's unemployment today! I can't reach this woman now, but I know she was taking every crap temp job she could, just to try to keep a roof over her head. She even tried having a daycare in her home, except the clients lost their jobs!

Start paying attention to what's really going on, before you make nonsensical statements.

that truly sux....did she call an airline and explain they allow bereavement airfares at like 10% I think...?

 

[B. Kidd]

Pay attention Paulie.

Judyd is telling it like it is.

A construction worker I know lost his job last year. He borrowed money to go to an HVAC-air conditioning trade school shortly thereafter.
Completed it in Feb.. His unemployment ran out June 2nd.
Can't find a job since Feb..
Temp. here in Vegas hit 108 first week in June.
Still not employed.
Is getting evicted and owes the AC trade school loan to boot.
Good, upstanding, fellow Americans are beginning to drop, like leaves from a tree, in the Autumn.
Happy 4th of July SUBJECTS, cause we are no longer CITIZENS!

 

[judyd]

Have you been looking for work??? Where do you come up with the idea that there are lots of manual jobs to come by?? That is a ridiculous claim, because there just aren't. And if a person is 40 or more, his chances of getting a manual labor job are slim to none.

thats partially because of the unionized labor pool. By the time you're 40 if you are a manual laborer with any kind of skill you should be in or thinking about going it on your own if possible.

Don't talk nonsense about something you obviously don't have a clue about. I had been talking back and forth with a woman on another message board who was in Syracuse NY. The last I heard from her, she was being evicted and her mother had just died in Florida, and she didn't have the money to go to her funeral. That's unemployment today! I can't reach this woman now, but I know she was taking every crap temp job she could, just to try to keep a roof over her head. She even tried having a daycare in her home, except the clients lost their jobs!

Start paying attention to what's really going on, before you make nonsensical statements.

that truly sux....did she call an airline and explain they allow bereavement airfares at like 10% I think...?

I meant that people who previously worked in office positions would be more than happy to take laborer's jobs--but they're just not out there.

I thought I had posted that this woman had also just received an eviction notice on her door on the same day that she heard that her mother died. Apparently since I haven't heard anything from her since, she has no access to the internet anymore.

I know about bereavement fares, and so did she, but when you don't even have any money left for food, it doesn't really matter, does it? People who do have jobs like to pretend that none of this is going on around them, but it is. There are very desperate and discouraged people out there--just get on some of the job forums. You'll be thankful that you're doing better.

 

[boedicca]

As bereavement fares are generally only a 10% discount, they are unfeasible for people who are living hand to mouth in a state of under or unemployment.

 

[Trajan]

You'll be thankful that you're doing better.

actually I'm not..I am currently posting from a cardboard box under an overpass, ripping power from a city lamp-post I wired....

was just suggesting thats all. I am very aware that the right or that is wrong kind of catastrophe could wipe me and my family out, I think and pray about it every-single-day.

 

[Neubarth]

Via the household survey.

Which nobody in the entire United States remembers being contacted for.

 

[editec]

yup thats the real deal also in 94 I believe the bls changed the way( with a little prompting form you know who) they advertise post the figures....the real unemployment rate is much higher absent this fanciful people gave up dodge.

The uniformed sheep are like wow the unemployment rate went down and we lost jobs...what? duh...no, they just make it appear that way by creating their own benchmark purely for their own ( the party at the time) aggrandizement.

You believe wrongly. The only changes to the definition of Unemployment in 1994 was that people waiting to start a job are no longer counted as unemployed unless they looked for work in the previous 4 weeks, and military were removed from the Population (that had the effect of raising the UE rate). Discouraged workers have NEVER been systematically included. Before 1967 it was included in the definition, but only for areas of particular economic hardship and it was up to the interviewer's discretion.

Now, if you want to claim political hijinxs in the rate, go ahead and present your evidence. You won't find any because it doesn't happen. I doubt you even realize what would be involved to try to manipulate the figures.

what defines a 'discouraged worker'?

Excellent question.

Here's the Bureau of Labor Statistics definition:

Discouraged workers are a subset of persons marginally attached to the labor force. The marginally attached are those persons not in the labor force who want and are available for work, and who have looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months, but were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. Among the marginally attached, discouraged workers were not currently looking for work specifically because they believed no jobs were available for them or there were none for which they would qualify. See also: Not in the labor force and Alternative measures of labor underutilization.

• News release: Employment Situation (Monthly)
  (HTML) (PDF) (Archives)
• Database: Retrieve historical data series
• Annual table: Persons not in the labor force by desire and availability for work, age, and sex (TXT) (PDF)
• Monthly table: Persons not in the labor force by desire and availability for work, age, and sex (TXT) (PDF)
• Articles:
  • Ranks of discouraged workers and others marginally attached to the labor force rise during recession (April 2009)
    (PDF)
  • Persons outside the labor force who want a job (July 1998)
    (Abstract) (Excerpt) (PDF)

And here's the current stats

A-38. Persons not in the labor force by desire and availability for work, age, and sex

(In thousands)



Total Age Sex


Category
16 to 24 25 to 54 55 years Men Women
years years and over
June June
2009 2010
June June June June June June June June June June
2009 2010 2009 2010 2009 2010 2009 2010 2009 2010



Total not in the labor force.................... 79,734 82,923 14,188 15,543 21,908 22,723 43,638 44,657 30,919 32,432 48,815 50,491
Do not want a job now (1)...................... 73,280 76,462 11,656 13,092 19,214 20,031 42,410 43,339 27,888 29,363 45,393 47,099
Want a job (1)................................. 6,454 6,461 2,531 2,451 2,694 2,692 1,229 1,318 3,031 3,069 3,422 3,392
Did not search for work in previous year...... 3,513 3,114 1,394 1,222 1,270 1,191 849 701 1,525 1,339 1,989 1,775
Searched for work in previous year (2)........ 2,940 3,347 1,137 1,229 1,424 1,501 379 617 1,507 1,730 1,433 1,617
Not available to work now.................... 765 756 412 393 281 311 72 52 356 325 409 432
Available to work now (3).................... 2,176 2,591 725 836 1,143 1,190 307 565 1,151 1,406 1,025 1,185

Reason not currently looking:
Discouragement over job prospects.......... 793 1,207 223 324 452 594 119 289 466 793 327 414
Reasons other than discouragement (4)...... 1,383 1,384 502 511 692 596 189 276 685 613 698 771
Family responsibilities................... 213 313 48 51 126 176 38 86 66 124 147 189
In school or training..................... 224 331 176 246 38 79 9 5 112 151 112 180
Ill health or disability.................. 120 41 21 4 64 9 35 28 60 20 60 21
Other (5)................................. 826 699 256 210 463 332 106 157 447 318 379 381

1 Includes some persons who are not asked if they want a job.
2 Persons who had a job in the prior 12 months must have searched since the end of that job.
3 Persons who have searched for work in the previous year and are available to work now also are referred to as "marginally
attached to the labor force."
4 Includes believes no work available, could not find work, lacks necessary schooling or training, employer thinks too young or
old, and other types of discrimination.
5 Includes those who did not actively look for work in the prior 4 weeks for such reasons as child-care and transportation
problems, as well as a small number for which reason for nonparticipation was not ascertained.
NOTE: Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data.

When one is "looking for a job" especially if one has a career, then it can be fairly easy to become discouraged.

AFter all, many professional people pretty much know what industries they're suited by training and education to work for.

When those industries are obviously not hiring, going out to find jobs that you're flat out unsuited for really is largely a waste of your time and money.

If you're pushing past 40 and have been working at some kind of non trades job for the last couple decades, applying for construction and blue collars jobs, maintanance and Mc Jobs is pretty pointless, given that master mechanics in those fields can't get hired.

And for those of you who aren't in the professional class? Even applying for professional jobs is an expensive and time consuming process.

Sp professional types have to target potential employers rather carefully, just so they don't waste money pointlessly in their job search.


This whole Horatio Alger myth that some of you youngsters are trying to give us sort of indicates to me just how difficult it is for you to imagine what other people's lives (and employability potential) are really like.

When tradesmen with years of experience are being laid off, expecting a 50 year old middle level manager to go after that kind job is preposterous.