48 people killed in less than a month

[KittenKoder]

For those that trot out the tired argument about cars killing people.

Cars – to get a driver’s licence people are tested, right? If they transgress the laws they lose the privilege to drive, right?

Just be thankful there isn’t an amendment about the right to drive.

Oh, would that people regulated guns the way they regulate cars. You don't need any sort of license or background check to own a car. Anyone can do it if they have the money. A license doesn't give you the right to drive a car; it gives you the right to operate one ON PUBLIC STREETS. Otherwise, you can drive your car as much as you want on private property. Underage kids who live on farms drive their parents' vehicles perfectly legally all the time, so long as they stay off of public streets. And let's face it, the exam to gain the privilege of taking your car onto public streets is so pathetically easy, anyone could pass it.

I've never driven in my life, have no reason or desire to, but I bet I could walk in with just the knowledge (I do know HOW to drive and even obey those laws) with a small fee I would be able to get a license. Guns I have experience with, not as much as someone who actually enjoys them but I have wicked aim with all ranged weapons (I prefer archery, more fun), know all the safety precautions, know not to point it at anything unless you intend to kill it, and smart enough to keep it from kids. But I doubt they would let me get a gun permit right away, they'd still require classes and such just to get approved, then I'd have to wait for it and hope I have the money still by the time I'm approved.

 

[Otter_Creek]

Sure have been a lot of shootings since acorn's manchurian candidate got inserted into our whitehouse.

 

[Diuretic]

For those that trot out the tired argument about cars killing people.

Cars – to get a driver’s licence people are tested, right? If they transgress the laws they lose the privilege to drive, right?

Just be thankful there isn’t an amendment about the right to drive.

Oh, would that people regulated guns the way they regulate cars. You don't need any sort of license or background check to own a car. Anyone can do it if they have the money. A license doesn't give you the right to drive a car; it gives you the right to operate one ON PUBLIC STREETS. Otherwise, you can drive your car as much as you want on private property. Underage kids who live on farms drive their parents' vehicles perfectly legally all the time, so long as they stay off of public streets. And let's face it, the exam to gain the privilege of taking your car onto public streets is so pathetically easy, anyone could pass it.

I wrote - "to get a driver's licence people are tested..."

and

"If they transgress the rules they lose the privilege to drive.."

See what I was getting at? It wasn't about driving a car anywhere, it was about being licensed to drive a car in the public domain. If you want a discussion about how easy it is to get a licence fine, we can do that, but it's sort of off the point here.

I hope that clears it up.

 

[Diuretic]

For those that trot out the tired argument about cars killing people.

Cars – to get a driver’s licence people are tested, right? If they transgress the laws they lose the privilege to drive, right?

Just be thankful there isn’t an amendment about the right to drive.

Oh, would that people regulated guns the way they regulate cars. You don't need any sort of license or background check to own a car. Anyone can do it if they have the money. A license doesn't give you the right to drive a car; it gives you the right to operate one ON PUBLIC STREETS. Otherwise, you can drive your car as much as you want on private property. Underage kids who live on farms drive their parents' vehicles perfectly legally all the time, so long as they stay off of public streets. And let's face it, the exam to gain the privilege of taking your car onto public streets is so pathetically easy, anyone could pass it.

I've never driven in my life, have no reason or desire to, but I bet I could walk in with just the knowledge (I do know HOW to drive and even obey those laws) with a small fee I would be able to get a license. Guns I have experience with, not as much as someone who actually enjoys them but I have wicked aim with all ranged weapons (I prefer archery, more fun), know all the safety precautions, know not to point it at anything unless you intend to kill it, and smart enough to keep it from kids. But I doubt they would let me get a gun permit right away, they'd still require classes and such just to get approved, then I'd have to wait for it and hope I have the money still by the time I'm approved.

The regulation of driving on public roads and the use/ownership/possession of firearms should (note the normative nature here) be regulated to ensure a minimum of harm to people. But while driving (on public roads) in the US (sorry, it has to be specific now) is considered a privilege which can be taken away for transgressions the use/ownership/possession of firearms is considered a constitutional right.

The point I was making is this. If there was a constitutional right to drive a motor vehicle on public roads it would be very difficult for legislatures to remove the right of anyone to do so. If firearms use/ownership/possession was considered a privilege in the US then it would be easier for legislatures to enact more effective firearms control laws which would enhance public safety for the legitimate use/ownership/possession of firearms.

 

[Diuretic]

Sure have been a lot of shootings since acorn's manchurian candidate got inserted into our whitehouse.

And your point is?

No point, I see.

 

[driveby]

48 people ? That's a little over a month in the small city of Baltimore. Funny, Baltimore has supposedly "tough" gun laws. Seems to be working well for the criminals .......

 

[KittenKoder]

For those that trot out the tired argument about cars killing people.

Cars – to get a driver’s licence people are tested, right? If they transgress the laws they lose the privilege to drive, right?

Just be thankful there isn’t an amendment about the right to drive.

Oh, would that people regulated guns the way they regulate cars. You don't need any sort of license or background check to own a car. Anyone can do it if they have the money. A license doesn't give you the right to drive a car; it gives you the right to operate one ON PUBLIC STREETS. Otherwise, you can drive your car as much as you want on private property. Underage kids who live on farms drive their parents' vehicles perfectly legally all the time, so long as they stay off of public streets. And let's face it, the exam to gain the privilege of taking your car onto public streets is so pathetically easy, anyone could pass it.

I wrote - "to get a driver's licence people are tested..."

and

"If they transgress the rules they lose the privilege to drive.."

See what I was getting at? It wasn't about driving a car anywhere, it was about being licensed to drive a car in the public domain. If you want a discussion about how easy it is to get a licence fine, we can do that, but it's sort of off the point here.

I hope that clears it up.

There are laws just like that for guns though, which I was hoping you would know and gave you the benefit of the doubt. Committing a crime with a gun in most states awards a stronger penalty than anything, including a car which has a record of being more dangerous than guns. Also, having a criminal background prevents most people from getting the permits while even vehicular homicide convicts can still get a drivers license.

 

[Diuretic]

48 people ? That's a little over a month in the small city of Baltimore. Funny, Baltimore has supposedly "tough" gun laws. Seems to be working well for the criminals .......

Once again the confusion sets in.

Criminals don't give a fuck about "gun laws" - have you noticed that? I have. And they don't give a fuck because.....wait for it....they're criminals!

But firearms control laws aren't about crime control, they're about harm minimisation from the private ownership/use/possession of firearms.

 

[driveby]

48 people ? That's a little over a month in the small city of Baltimore. Funny, Baltimore has supposedly "tough" gun laws. Seems to be working well for the criminals .......

Once again the confusion sets in.

Criminals don't give a fuck about "gun laws" - have you noticed that? I have. And they don't give a fuck because.....wait for it....they're criminals!

But firearms control laws aren't about crime control, they're about harm minimisation from the private ownership/use/possession of firearms.

No confusion here mate, if enough criminals get blasted by gun toting, law abiding citizens, i'm thinking crime goes down.......

 

[PoliticalChic]

48 people ? That's a little over a month in the small city of Baltimore. Funny, Baltimore has supposedly "tough" gun laws. Seems to be working well for the criminals .......

Let's add Queen Ann and watch 'em go crazy:

In a comprehensive study of all public multiple shooting incidents in America between 1977 and 1999, economists John Lott and Bill Landes found that the only public policy that reduced both the incidence and casualties of such shootings were concealed-carry laws. Not only are there 60 percent fewer gun massacres after states adopt concealed-carry laws, but the death and injury rate of such rampages are reduced by 80 percent.
From an Ann Coulter column, January 29, 2009

 

[driveby]

Doh ! , those facts are a bitch .......

 

[PoliticalChic]

48 people ? That's a little over a month in the small city of Baltimore. Funny, Baltimore has supposedly "tough" gun laws. Seems to be working well for the criminals .......

Once again the confusion sets in.

Criminals don't give a fuck about "gun laws" - have you noticed that? I have. And they don't give a fuck because.....wait for it....they're criminals!

But firearms control laws aren't about crime control, they're about harm minimisation from the private ownership/use/possession of firearms.

"...firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly."

the munchkin wrangler.: why the gun is civilization.

 

[raceright]

Lots of the following has been known for a long time, but the update from Australia is interesting. The Switzerland info really nails things down and it has been that way there for decades.





A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century after gun control was established: 56 million.
------------------------------

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII , one reason the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.


The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
If you are too, please forward.

 

[Diuretic]

Lots of the following has been known for a long time, but the update from Australia is interesting. The Switzerland info really nails things down and it has been that way there for decades.





A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century after gun control was established: 56 million.
------------------------------

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII , one reason the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.


The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
If you are too, please forward.

The Australian statistics are crap. As I noted elsewhere this bullshit has been peddled around the net since about 1997. It should die.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

OK, fellows, we have a problem. Another couple of months like that, and you will see some pretty strict gun control laws. Laws approved of by the majority of the people of the nation.

So you really need to come up with some answers other than foaming at the mouth rants about your freedoms.

Well, I'm with you, boyo. But I NEVER bring up this crap, because, then THEY bring up stats like people killed in car accidents, should we ban cars? sh*t. Well, maybe we SHOULD. But, that is a different board, different topic. But, gee, have all these maniacs with guns going on rampages in old folks homes or in Immigrant Centers or,well you get it. I live near Columbine HS. And, I wonder about how good guns are. Or how some of you folks think the elderly or kids need guns to protect themselves from sickos that love guns? Sickos love guns. And they want their right to bare them preserved, they don't give a darn about anything else.

 

[raceright]

Lots of the following has been known for a long time, but the update from Australia is interesting. The Switzerland info really nails things down and it has been that way there for decades.





A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century after gun control was established: 56 million.
------------------------------

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII , one reason the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.


The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
If you are too, please forward.

The Australian statistics are crap. As I noted elsewhere this bullshit has been peddled around the net since about 1997. It should die.

Hey Roo where are you stats

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

What the hey? Australians don't like American crime or gun control. Somehow, who cares? It's touching, but I doubt your typical Aussie gives a care, either way.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

48 people ? That's a little over a month in the small city of Baltimore. Funny, Baltimore has supposedly "tough" gun laws. Seems to be working well for the criminals .......

Once again the confusion sets in.

Criminals don't give a fuck about "gun laws" - have you noticed that? I have. And they don't give a fuck because.....wait for it....they're criminals!

But firearms control laws aren't about crime control, they're about harm minimisation from the private ownership/use/possession of firearms.

Once again DUMB ASS. In America EVERY Gun Control law is SOLD as CRIME CONTROL. And YOUR current laws on guns were ALSO sold as CRIME CONTROL. Already linked you twice to the article that proves YOUR current law was billed as crime prevention after a shooting spree that left 35 dead.

 

[raceright]

What the hey? Australians don't like American crime or gun control. Somehow, who cares? It's touching, but I doubt your typical Aussie gives a care, either way.

Your right

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Australian statistics are crap. As I noted elsewhere this bullshit has been peddled around the net since about 1997. It should die.

"Since Australia banned private ownership of most guns in 1996, crime has risen dramatically on that continent, prompting critics of U.S. gun control efforts to issue new warnings of what life in America could be like if Congress ever bans firearms.
After Australian lawmakers passed widespread gun bans, owners were forced to surrender about 650,000 weapons, which were later slated for destruction, according to statistics from the Australian Sporting Shooters Association.

The bans were not limited to so-called "assault" weapons or military-type firearms, but also to .22 rifles and shotguns. The effort cost the Australian government about $500 million, said association representative Keith Tidswell.

Though lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story: "

Crime up Down Under