450 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of "Man-Made" Global Warming

[Oddball]

What CAFE standards failed to foresee, like every other authoritarian know-it-all gubmint program does, is that nobody can beat the free marketplace.

 

[Toronado3800]

Beat the free marketplace? I don't get it. Are you saying there was a winner and a loser? Like the Iranians win if we use less fuel efficient cars and our environment loses?

Or do you mean the ppl in the marketplace will always find a way around laws and regulation? A rather pessimistic view of society. Of course I'd be a socialist if I thought folks would work for the joy of accomplishing anything.

 

[Oddball]

It's neither optimistic nor pessimistic to note that mere politicians and bureaucrats cannot keep consumers from getting the products they really want. It is merely a fact.

 

[Old Rocks]

What CAFE standards failed to foresee, like every other authoritarian know-it-all gubmint program does, is that nobody can beat the free marketplace.

You have that right. Proven with the First Great Republican Depression, and, except for last minute intervention, would have been proven with the Second Great Republican Depression.

 

[Old Rocks]

It's neither optimistic nor pessimistic to note that mere politicians and bureaucrats cannot keep consumers from getting the products they really want. It is merely a fact.

Well you have a point there. Like Cocaine, Crack, Meth, and Pot. I am sure I can assume that you are doing your share to keep this free market going

 

[Oddball]

OK Old Rocks,

You always ask for peer reviewed papers..

Now I am giving you your heart's desire. What I want from you is a scientific rebuttal to each.

Is an old millwright up to it?

Popular Technology.net: 450 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of "Man-Made" Global Warming

Here's another source for that one: Peer-Reviewed Study Rocks Climate Debate! 'Nature not man responsible for recent global warming...little or none of late 20th century warming and cooling can be attributed to humans' | Climate Depot

 

[mdn2000]

I have worked in two steel mills. Both were fired with electricity. In fact, most melting of the primary source, ore or scrap, or any combination of those, are done in electric furnaces today.

http://www.stahlwerk-thueringen.de/files/File/2704_besu_engl.pdf

You know old crock, fuck off, its over and over with you, you post a source and do not read your own source, you worked in two all electric steel mills, bullshit. I was not going to look at this source but I knew you were nothing but a moron. Here I go again, I will qoute Old Crock's source, Old Crock's source describes the most modern steel plant in the world. Of course the first plant using this technology was built in the USA in Indiana by Nucor steel. No one else thought the "continous roll" process would work. Check out the book "American Steel".

Now to quote Old Crock's source, showing once again that Old Crock never reads his own sources which shows Old Crock has knows nothing about energy and even less about the fairy tale "green energy".

The smelting shop
The electric arc furnace is charged with two containers of recycled steel per cycle; the
furnace needs approx. 50 minutes to convert this material into 120 metric tons of
molten steel. The furnace works on the direct current electric arc furnace principle. An
electric arc is generated between a graphite electrode with a diameter of 750 mm and
the bottom of the furnace which functions as the anode. This energy, supplemented by
natural gas/oxygen burners, is used to smelt the scrap

Before rolling, the beam blanks - both our own as well as those from external suppliers
- are placed in a natural gas fired pusher furnace where they are heated to a temperature
of approximately 1,200 °C.

So there you have it, no iron smelting plant exists that uses only electricity, hence the fairy tale of green energy being sustainable in the future is pure fantasy.

Stupid ass, the steel is smelted with electricy, Doooodeeee....... said nothing at all about the reheat process that is done before the rolling.

The slabs are created using electricity, the slabs are later put into a reheat furnace to be heated to the correct rolling temperature for the rolling process.

Nothing Old Crock says is truthful, Old Crock cannot see the truth when its Old Crock's own source.

Stupid ass, the steel is smelted with electricy, Doooodeeee.......

An
electric arc is generated between a graphite electrode with a diameter of 750 mm and
the bottom of the furnace which functions as the anode. This energy, supplemented by
natural gas/oxygen burners, is used to smelt the scrap

Notice the last part of the sentence that Old Crock highlighted in bold print, "This energy, supplemented by natural gas/oxygen burners, is used to smelt the scrap"

Again, Old Crock shows the USMB users that Old Crcok is as dumb as they get.

What is the relevance in this thread, simple, old crock is wrong, old crocks sources are never read by old crock, if old crock reads his own source old crock does not understand what he reads.

Old Crock was born a dumb fool hence he will always be a dumb fool, you cannot educate a fool much less a dumb fool.

 

[Oddball]

What CAFE standards failed to foresee, like every other authoritarian know-it-all gubmint program does, is that nobody can beat the free marketplace.

You have that right. Proven with the First Great Republican Depression, and, except for last minute intervention, would have been proven with the Second Great Republican Depression.

I get it now...You're stupid on purpose.

 

[Toronado3800]

I'll admit crooks on the street corner selling crack and crooks in corner offices inventing new ways to change money or INsecurities will always find ways around regulations. Folks in office will even try selling time off from purgatory if you don't watch them close enough.

Still it seems the only way to get folks to buy more efficient cars is to regulate fuel economy by manufacturers or with a ridiculously high tax on any vehicle that gets less than maybe 30mpg. Seems like a case of picking your poison. Big Government vs funding the Iraqi military.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK Old Rocks,

You always ask for peer reviewed papers..

Now I am giving you your heart's desire. What I want from you is a scientific rebuttal to each.

Is an old millwright up to it?

Popular Technology.net: 450 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of "Man-Made" Global Warming

Here's another source for that one: Peer-Reviewed Study Rocks Climate Debate! 'Nature not man responsible for recent global warming...little or none of late 20th century warming and cooling can be attributed to humans' | Climate Depot

Peer-Reviewed Study Rocks Climate Debate! 'Nature not man responsible for recent global warming...little or none of late 20th century warming and cooling can be attributed to humans' | Climate Depot

It is evident in this paper that ENSO (ocean-atmosphere heat exchange) is the primary driver of MGT (i.e. El Niños cause global warming and La Niñas cause global cooling). All other mechanisms are small in comparison. The reason may be due to Hadley circulation which is itself linked to changes in sea surface temperature (ocean heat supply) and the Walker Circulation, that is, ENSO. Hadley circulation is the main mechanism for moving the surplus of energy at near the equator to high latitudes and plays a key role in the general circulation of the atmosphere. Changes in Hadley circulation affects convection and thus atmospheric moisture content and cloud cover which may in turn affect net solar heating as well as the transfer of heat from Earth to space.


All well and good. So in 1998, we had an exceptionally strong El Nino. And we had the hottest year on record. But then in 2005, we had a year that was with a hair of as hot as 1998? Watt's up with that, boys?

But we had a strong and persistant La Nina in 2007 and 2008. Of course, we had some of the coldest years in the last 150 years, correct? Well no, in fact, 2008 tied with 2001 as the eighth warmest on record. If ENSO is the primary driver of the heat, how could this have happened?

ENSO, like the sunspot cycle, is a short term cycle that is superimposed on top of the heat created by the increasing GHGs that we have put into the atmosphere. Were this not the case, then 2008 would have been the eighth coldest year in the last 150, not the eighth warmest.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'll admit crooks on the street corner selling crack and crooks in corner offices inventing new ways to change money or INsecurities will always find ways around regulations. Folks in office will even try selling time off from purgatory if you don't watch them close enough.

Still it seems the only way to get folks to buy more efficient cars is to regulate fuel economy by manufacturers or with a ridiculously high tax on any vehicle that gets less than maybe 30mpg. Seems like a case of picking your poison. Big Government vs funding the Iraqi military.

Well, if we had a few more cars like this out there tearing the socks off of the ICE muscle cars, we might be able to sell the idea of a real electric car;

Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels : TreeHugger

British engineering firm has put together a high-performance hybrid version of BMW's Mini Cooper. The PML Mini QED has a top speed of 150 mph, a 0-60 mph time of 4.5 seconds. The car uses a small gasoline engine with four 160 horsepower electric motors — one on each wheel. The car has been designed to run for four hours of combined urban/extra urban driving, powered only by a battery and bank of ultra capacitors. The QED supports an all-electric range of 200-250 miles and has a total range of about 932 miles (1,500 km). For longer journeys at higher speeds, a small conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) is used to re-charge the battery. In this hybrid mode, fuel economies of up to 80mpg can be achieved.

 

[Old Rocks]

How about an eleven and half second quarter mile?

Electric Car Drag Racing | Oregon Field Guide | OPB | Cheaper UK Electric Bills

 

[Toronado3800]

Not bad! If I recall the Volt will run on more or less the same theory but not be anywhere near as exciting to drive.

Wonder if the "cool" or "fast" factor will be enough to push the electric car over the edge into common use. I turn some wrenches and have gotten into the habit of buying whatever car I wanted but couldn't afford 10 years ago so I think of the "my, do I want a used one" factor.

Really electric motors aren't very complicated though. Just buy an old enough low production car and eventually you can't find new headlights or lord forbid a drivetrain piece.

 

[Oddball]

How about gallons upon gallons of caustic electrolytes and scads of heavy metals?

Nope....There's no free lunch.

 

[mdn2000]

I have not thrown out enough batteries in my life, how about a car that uses the equivalent of a lifetimes worth of batteries just to run to the store to buy batteries for my radio.

I see Old Crock posted a link, what a joke, every link I follow of Old Crock's ends up showing old crock does not know how to read, Old Crock has cried wolf way too much for me.

 

[Old Rocks]

How about gallons upon gallons of caustic electrolytes and scads of heavy metals?

Nope....There's no free lunch.

Dumb, dumb, Dooodeee....... We are talking Lithium batteries. Lithium is far to valuable to throw away, it will be recycled. By the way, Lithium is #3 on the periodic chart, just after Hydrogen and Helium.Heavy metal, indeed

Even better than the Lithium batteries, are the ultra capacitors that are being developed right now, three time the power in less weight, and a very quick recharge rate, minutes, not hours.

 

[Old Rocks]

I have not thrown out enough batteries in my life, how about a car that uses the equivalent of a lifetimes worth of batteries just to run to the store to buy batteries for my radio.

I see Old Crock posted a link, what a joke, every link I follow of Old Crock's ends up showing old crock does not know how to read, Old Crock has cried wolf way too much for me.

How about the fact that you are a total doofus.

 

[Old Rocks]

Not bad! If I recall the Volt will run on more or less the same theory but not be anywhere near as exciting to drive.

Wonder if the "cool" or "fast" factor will be enough to push the electric car over the edge into common use. I turn some wrenches and have gotten into the habit of buying whatever car I wanted but couldn't afford 10 years ago so I think of the "my, do I want a used one" factor.

Really electric motors aren't very complicated though. Just buy an old enough low production car and eventually you can't find new headlights or lord forbid a drivetrain piece.

The hub motors on the BMW are readily availabe commercially. In fact, the only thing holding back the development of really affordable electric cars is the present price of the electrical storage systems, be they capacitors or batteries.

The RAV4 Toyota electrics that were imported into the US over ten years ago are still going strong, many of them with over 150,000 miles on their original NiMH batteries. The only reason there were not far more of them is that GM and Chevron put in some small print into the patent licenses that cost Toyota $30,000,000. Nobody with the patent licenses is allowed to build auto size NiMH batteries.

 

[Oddball]

How about gallons upon gallons of caustic electrolytes and scads of heavy metals?

Nope....There's no free lunch.

Dumb, dumb, Dooodeee....... We are talking Lithium batteries. Lithium is far to valuable to throw away, it will be recycled. By the way, Lithium is #3 on the periodic chart, just after Hydrogen and Helium.Heavy metal, indeed

Even better than the Lithium batteries, are the ultra capacitors that are being developed right now, three time the power in less weight, and a very quick recharge rate, minutes, not hours.

Is lithium metal that requires mining and refining or not?

Are the electrolytes in lithium batteries petroleum based and/or dangerously caustic or are they not?

Are lithium batteries industry standard or are lead-acid, Ni-Cad and NiMh batteries more prevalent?

You ready to accept the increase in traffic fatalities that will be brought about, because you'll need a HazMat team to show up at wrecks before the EMS personnel can go to work?

Ever heard of the concept of trade-offs?

 

[Old Rocks]

How about gallons upon gallons of caustic electrolytes and scads of heavy metals?

Nope....There's no free lunch.

Dumb, dumb, Dooodeee....... We are talking Lithium batteries. Lithium is far to valuable to throw away, it will be recycled. By the way, Lithium is #3 on the periodic chart, just after Hydrogen and Helium.Heavy metal, indeed

Even better than the Lithium batteries, are the ultra capacitors that are being developed right now, three time the power in less weight, and a very quick recharge rate, minutes, not hours.

Is lithium metal that requires mining and refining or not?

Are the electrolytes in lithium batteries petroleum based and/or dangerously caustic or are they not?

Are lithium batteries industry standard or are lead-acid, Ni-Cad and NiMh batteries more prevalent?

You ready to accept the increase in traffic fatalities that will be brought about, because you'll need a HazMat team to show up at wrecks before the EMS personnel can go to work?

Ever heard of the concept of trade-offs?

I sure recognize out right lying to cover massive ignorance.