$249,999.00 Is the Goal

[oreo]

because you can't do such in a recession, unless you want to throw us in to a worse one...even every republican in congress knows this, and those that voted against the stimulus spending/tax cuts voted against it because they didn't like the way the money was spent, not because they were not going to spend money themselves.

And yes, spending should have been cut the last 8 years and because it wasn't, it makes it harder for us to spend now, when it is needed to pull us out of this.....

but right now, pulling back on spending would only make things worse....this is not to say that spending wiser and more prudently is not in order.

and, you could cut spending $3 BILLION a day at this point and it still would not bring us in line to what we bring in tax revenues.

Taxes will go up on us all at some point or bankruptcy, unless we have an economic boom three times the size of the boom in the 90's and i just don't see the opportunity for that to happen.

care

You can and you must. You're quoting Keynesian Economics here and it doesn't work. You can't spend money you don't have. That's just common sense.

We've been doing that for a century, spending money we do not have...and you should not spend money you don't have in good times, the only time you can spend money you don't have is in an emergency, and this certainly is one...

I was against the bail outs to the banks, i was against this particular stimulus, because it was not soley focused on to the Housing crisis and fixing that....

I am against this tax hike at the $250k mark...the threshhold should be higher imo.

You're right this is an economic emergency. I don't think too many Americans were against an economic stimulus bill--it was the unnecessary earmarks & pork barrel spending that outraged everyone. Our congress had absolutely no business spending that kind of money--"that is our money" on ridiculous B.S as that. Especially during a time of emergency.

The other factor in all of this is history. And history can be very scary--especially when you look at the 90's & what happened to Japan. Almost same identical circumstances--banks lending to people who could not repay the loans. All the money was thrown at these institutions & it did not get any better, in fact it got worse. The only time the ship corrected was when government stopped throwing money at the problem.

With all this spending we have basically mortgaged our grandchildrens future. Why because our big momma federal government has decided to take over issues that really belong to the individual states. And I would love to see that change after all this.

There is absolutely no reason for our elected representatives to go to Washington D.C. to secure money for their states. They should only be there to represent the people of their states--regarding Federal government issues of military, foreign policy & homeland security-- period!

Everything else from A to Z belongs to the individual states & should be handeled by those states. That's why we have state legislatures & a govenor. We would be so much more effective in this country if Americans demanded that.

 

[manu1959]

issue the money directly to the citizens ... they will stimulate the economy.....but the man of the people doesn't trust the people......

 

[Old Rocks]

Well I have been preaching Obama's ignorant evil crap for 4 years now...

Of course the die hard partisan libs will continually love him no matter what he does..

We are talking about a man who actually expects to spend 3 trillion dollars on social programs...

I dont think anyone could actually spend 3 trillion on social programs, you could gold plate the projects and still not spend all of that money.

OK, dingbat, you would prefer to spend another three trillion in some stinkhole like Iraq? This money is going to our own people, not to the very rich making money off of the blood of our sons and daughters like Haliburton.

 

[elvis]

Well I have been preaching Obama's ignorant evil crap for 4 years now...

Of course the die hard partisan libs will continually love him no matter what he does..

We are talking about a man who actually expects to spend 3 trillion dollars on social programs...

I dont think anyone could actually spend 3 trillion on social programs, you could gold plate the projects and still not spend all of that money.

OK, dingbat, you would prefer to spend another three trillion in some stinkhole like Iraq? This money is going to our own people, not to the very rich making money off of the blood of our sons and daughters like Haliburton.

Uh, Obama is going to spend another trillion on Iraq, you stupid fuck.

 

[manu1959]

Well I have been preaching Obama's ignorant evil crap for 4 years now...

Of course the die hard partisan libs will continually love him no matter what he does..

We are talking about a man who actually expects to spend 3 trillion dollars on social programs...

I dont think anyone could actually spend 3 trillion on social programs, you could gold plate the projects and still not spend all of that money.

OK, dingbat, you would prefer to spend another three trillion in some stinkhole like Iraq? This money is going to our own people, not to the very rich making money off of the blood of our sons and daughters like Haliburton.

Uh, Obama is going to spend another trillion on Iraq, you stupid fuck.

obama is going to spend the same money as bush did in iraq for the next 18 months....

he is going to spendmorein afganistan ......

he spent 1 trillion dollars in a week last week......

 

[elvis]

OK, dingbat, you would prefer to spend another three trillion in some stinkhole like Iraq? This money is going to our own people, not to the very rich making money off of the blood of our sons and daughters like Haliburton.

Uh, Obama is going to spend another trillion on Iraq, you stupid fuck.

obama is going to spend the same money as bush did in iraq for the next 18 months....

he is going to spendmorein afganistan ......

he spent 1 trillion dollars in a week last week......

yeah but it's ok with rock head because Obama is a liberal democrat. That makes it ok.

 

[Red Dawn]

OK, dingbat, you would prefer to spend another three trillion in some stinkhole like Iraq? This money is going to our own people, not to the very rich making money off of the blood of our sons and daughters like Haliburton.

Uh, Obama is going to spend another trillion on Iraq, you stupid fuck.

obama is going to spend the same money as bush did in iraq for the next 18 months....

he is going to spendmorein afganistan ......

he spent 1 trillion dollars in a week last week......

I'm pretty sure you defended bush with all your heart and soul for at least seven years.

so I assume you if you feel obama is just like bush, that you like will support and defend obama just like you did bush?

 

[Zoomie1980]

there would be no benefit to pair their business down....the op is utterly ridiculous and i have to wonder if these people mouthing this crap even do their own taxes or understand how the tax structures works?

Sounds to me like they are cluless, absolutely clueless...

let's say your taxable income is $280k instead of the 249.9k, the only extra taxes they would pay in income taxes is the difference between 35% in taxes and 28% in taxes ON THE 30K over the 250k only.

so in this case, for making $30,000 MORE, they will have to pay about $2100 more in taxes than they did under their previous tax structure.

So, for $30k more in taxable income they will pay $10,500 in taxes verses $8400 that they would be paying if the tax break of their bracket did not expire in 2011.

Bringing home almost $20k out of that $30k with the new tax structure....

are you saying that this woman in the article would really keep her own income down to avoid paying a 7% increase on her taxable income over and above the $250k....and she would turn down the $20k extra she could add NET to her yearly earnings?

Bulloneyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Care

No, the real idea is to move that $30,000 of income outside the US and out of the reach of the IRS, and get below the $250,000 mark. Most of my international investments today are run through Cayman Is and other offshore brokerages and stay there, nice and safe from anything the socialists in power now can do to take more of my income.....

 

[manu1959]

Uh, Obama is going to spend another trillion on Iraq, you stupid fuck.

obama is going to spend the same money as bush did in iraq for the next 18 months....

he is going to spendmorein afganistan ......

he spent 1 trillion dollars in a week last week......

I'm pretty sure you defended bush with all your heart and soul for at least seven years.

so I assume you if you feel obama is just like bush, that you like will support and defend obama just like you did bush?

nope i didn't and i will voice my displeasure with this president if i like....

 

[auditor0007]

yes and for those of us that have a salary sometimes lees than our employees and work our ass off all year to make a profit so that at the end of the year that risk and effort will results in a bonus......then to have that money taxed at a higher rate simply because my effort and risk paid off .... and that money given to those that couldn't is a real pisser......especially when i started from nothing with nothing......

if an employe looses their job they get unemployement and hand outs.....if a business owner does.....the bank takes their house and all their shit and guess what the self employed don't get unemployment.....

but hey ... who gives a shit there isn't that many of us......

Most states do not allow business owners or the self-employed to pay unemployment insurance for themselves. This is a problem that should be addressed. The self-employed should have the option of paying for this coverage.

 

[Red Dawn]

obama is going to spend the same money as bush did in iraq for the next 18 months....

he is going to spendmorein afganistan ......

he spent 1 trillion dollars in a week last week......

I'm pretty sure you defended bush with all your heart and soul for at least seven years.

so I assume you if you feel obama is just like bush, that you like will support and defend obama just like you did bush?

nope i didn't and i will voice my displeasure with this president if i like....

I think you're lying. I've been on message boards for years, and I barely ever remember a single republican saying that bush was fucking until the last 12 months.

I said bush was fucking up YEARS ago, and almost every single message board con violently disagreed with me.

 

[auditor0007]

The only thing that will 'stop him' or the Congress, is the people. Writing, emailing, posting, sending letters to editors. That WILL stop him, or at least Congress.

Millions of letters, e-mails & phone calls were sent to our representative over this 787 billion dollar stimulus bill. Prior to that millions of letters, e-mails & phone calls were done over all these bail-outs.

It is apparent to me that our elected representatives are NOT listening to the people who elected them.

They're smarter than us. That's why we elected them.

 

[Jon]

it certainly is not enough of a tax increase to cause a disincentive for a small business to pare down its business, which is the republican mantra and garbage that is continually touted.

Sorry, I didn't realize that the world voted you to be the spokesperson for everyone. I'd like to recast my ballot, at least.

The point is, care, that you can't say what is enough of a tax increase to discourage business owners. Everyone is different. What's valuable to you may not be valuable to others. Like I said, I'd be perfectly happy with my $249,999 (less taxes, of course) if I could spend more time at home. You don't feel the same way? Great. You work and make the extra cash. Oh, wait, this income increase doesn't affect you, so you don't have to worry about the tough decision.

 

[manu1959]

I'm pretty sure you defended bush with all your heart and soul for at least seven years.

so I assume you if you feel obama is just like bush, that you like will support and defend obama just like you did bush?

nope i didn't and i will voice my displeasure with this president if i like....

I think you're lying. I've been on message boards for years, and I barely ever remember a single republican saying that bush was fucking until the last 12 months.

I said bush was fucking up YEARS ago, and almost every single message board con violently disagreed with me.

well i guess that is your issue.......i wonder how long it is going to take you to figure out obama is fucking you as well......

 

[Zoomie1980]

it certainly is not enough of a tax increase to cause a disincentive for a small business to pare down its business, which is the republican mantra and garbage that is continually touted.

Sorry, I didn't realize that the world voted you to be the spokesperson for everyone. I'd like to recast my ballot, at least.

The point is, care, that you can't say what is enough of a tax increase to discourage business owners. Everyone is different. What's valuable to you may not be valuable to others. Like I said, I'd be perfectly happy with my $249,999 (less taxes, of course) if I could spend more time at home. You don't feel the same way? Great. You work and make the extra cash. Oh, wait, this income increase doesn't affect you, so you don't have to worry about the tough decision.

What it's going to do is force the wealthy to pull their capital out of the United States, and put it to work elsewhere. I know I will. That is capital that would otherwise be used to investing in growth in the US that will now be put to work in places like Singapore and India to fuel growth there.

I cannot fathom how idiots can believe that raising taxes on the wealthy EVER is a positive thing. They are the ONLY people on the planet with the ability to impact the economy in a big enough way for anyone to notice. We'll will simply choose to invest in parts of the world that allow us keep our returns. I like Malaysia and Singapore a LOT more, these days, than the United States. That's where people like me choose to "stimulate" economic activity, well beyond the reach of Saint Obama...

 

[necritan]

Daddy ??

"Yes son"

Where did all my coins go that I was saving?

"Well....did you do all your chores and do good in school this year??"

Yes sir I did....

"Well....see....there you go son...now you see the fruits of your labor"

I dont get it , where did all my coins go??

"I gave them to your friend next door"

But...it was my coins...not yours to give.

"Thats true son....but daddy is much bigger than you...and I can smash you like a bug"

 

[jreeves]

I bet she's lying.

Me too, I can't phathom why someone would try to keep their income under 250k?

 

[jreeves]

To think people will work hard, so others can benefit isn't the stimulus that is likely to work:

ABC News: Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan

Okay, I've got to be honest here; this woman is not real bright. That's her perogative though. I'm not thrilled with the tax increase on the wealthy. I'm not too upset though, but I do think that $250,000 is too low of a number. This starts the tax increase at a much lower level than it did under Clinton. I believe Clinton started the highest bracket at $280,000 to $290,000. When it was first put in place, the number was lower, but those levels were raised yearly to account for inflation. Based on that, the number should be closer to $350,000 now.

Here's the thing. The rate increase only effects income over $250,000. If this woman makes $350,000, she will be taxed an additional $4600. On the additional $100,000 of income over the $250,000, she'll pay $39,600 instead of the current $35,000. On the first $250,000, she'll pay what she paid before. So, in this example, she would be choosing to give up $60,400, less her state taxes, just so she doesn't have to pay the extra $4600 in taxes.

I know if I was in her shoes, I'd be upset about having to pay more. But I sure as hell wouldn't choose to reduce my income by such a large amount just because I had to pay an extra $4600.

I also suggested this yesterday and the day before, i also believe the threshold shold be a little higher...i was willing even to go up to a million bucks before kicking in because i felt many of these people earning these incomes were in metropolitan cities on the east and west coast, and I felt the cost of living was so high in these spots that the threshold needed to be higher to accomodate such....

But none the less, i still say the lawyer doesn't have a lightbulb on, at least when it comes to her own tax situation with a progressive tax structure.

Care

Lets figure this out together, Care. Obama is going to borrow 2 trillion dollars, $250k↑ income taxe rates are going up, your chartiable tax deductions are greatly reduced and you have been demonized by this President as “Rich”. Who will this President go after, in large part, to repay that 2 trillion or a 1 trillion dollar government ran healthcare, etc........
I can't understand either.....lol

 

[DiveCon]

I'm pretty sure you defended bush with all your heart and soul for at least seven years.

so I assume you if you feel obama is just like bush, that you like will support and defend obama just like you did bush?

nope i didn't and i will voice my displeasure with this president if i like....

I think you're lying. I've been on message boards for years, and I barely ever remember a single republican saying that bush was fucking until the last 12 months.

I said bush was fucking up YEARS ago, and almost every single message board con violently disagreed with me.

then you are fucking ignorant
there were TONS of conservatives complaining about the spending that was going on
you are just too fucking stupid to understand someone defending the truth vs defending bush

 

[Ravi]

there would be no benefit to pair their business down....the op is utterly ridiculous and i have to wonder if these people mouthing this crap even do their own taxes or understand how the tax structures works?

Sounds to me like they are cluless, absolutely clueless...

let's say your taxable income is $280k instead of the 249.9k, the only extra taxes they would pay in income taxes is the difference between 35% in taxes and 28% in taxes ON THE 30K over the 250k only.

so in this case, for making $30,000 MORE, they will have to pay about $2100 more in taxes than they did under their previous tax structure.

So, for $30k more in taxable income they will pay $10,500 in taxes verses $8400 that they would be paying if the tax break of their bracket did not expire in 2011.

Bringing home almost $20k out of that $30k with the new tax structure....

are you saying that this woman in the article would really keep her own income down to avoid paying a 7% increase on her taxable income over and above the $250k....and she would turn down the $20k extra she could add NET to her yearly earnings?

Bulloneyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Care

It's the principle, the disincentives. Guess what? One can be comfortable on 249,999 and by avoiding the crossover, have more leisure time. Why not? Europeans see it in just such a light, and they've been dealing with the disincentives since the 60's. Works well.

I don't believe that individuals who have taxable income exceeding $250k would necessarily have a disincentive to work, for reasons stated by Care, as well as the existence of other incentives intrinsic to these circumstances, such as finding ways to shelter that extra income by either employing more people or increasing existing employee salaries and benefits, or upgrading business equipment, etc.

That's what I plan on doing when my income exceeds what I want to earn...hire someone to replace me. Like I said, this women ain't too bright, but maybe that's why she's stuck in Lafayette.