$249,999.00 Is the Goal

[Care4all]

it's not class warfare...

taxes also went up on the middle and the poor with the added cigarette taxes he's adding to them ....but nooooooooo, that doesn't count because it is not income tax? Bulloney!

How many of the poor will be able to take advantage of the new car credit they are offering? near none, because even with the credit, they can't afford the new car....but the middle and the upper classes can take advantage of this credit....

All I am trying to say is that these bills are filled with all kinds of things that help or advantage those that earn more, along with advantages to those who earn less...

If everything is taken on the whole, this plan is not as lopsided and focussed on "taxing" the rich and stealing from them as you claim....thus the mantra on the right, for soley POLITICAL PURPOSES....

ALL of our workers SS Surplus moneys are being used to pay for what income taxes are suppose to pay....that is nearly 300 billion a year now of the lower and middle classes money being STOLEN to pay for what these income tax payers are suppose to pay.....

to say that the poor do not support or pay taxes to support this country is nothing but a lie....

Care

because they can easily avoid those taxes
STOP SMOKING

who can easily avoid it....it is an ADDICTION isn't it? OR have you conveniently forgotten that part?

and if they all quit or all die, then WHAT? who gets taxed next for your spending?

these tax tricks are nothing but scams to hide their spending and putting it all on to the few, addicted.....it is inhumane!!!!

 

[DiveCon]

it's not class warfare...

taxes also went up on the middle and the poor with the added cigarette taxes he's adding to them ....but nooooooooo, that doesn't count because it is not income tax? Bulloney!

How many of the poor will be able to take advantage of the new car credit they are offering? near none, because even with the credit, they can't afford the new car....but the middle and the upper classes can take advantage of this credit....

All I am trying to say is that these bills are filled with all kinds of things that help or advantage those that earn more, along with advantages to those who earn less...

If everything is taken on the whole, this plan is not as lopsided and focussed on "taxing" the rich and stealing from them as you claim....thus the mantra on the right, for soley POLITICAL PURPOSES....

ALL of our workers SS Surplus moneys are being used to pay for what income taxes are suppose to pay....that is nearly 300 billion a year now of the lower and middle classes money being STOLEN to pay for what these income tax payers are suppose to pay.....

to say that the poor do not support or pay taxes to support this country is nothing but a lie....

Care

because they can easily avoid those taxes
STOP SMOKING

who can easily avoid it....it is an ADDICTION isn't it? OR have you conveniently forgotten that part?

and if they all quit or all die, then WHAT? who gets taxed next for your spending?

these tax tricks are nothing but scams to hide their spending and putting it all on to the few, addicted.....it is inhumane!!!!

you confuse me with someone that supports those taxes in the first place

but, the reason for those increases in taxes are a direct result of smoking in the sense that its supposed to pay for the healthcare those smokers will need
however, i dont support doing those things
i dont support government price subsidies on tobacco either

 

[Care4all]

because they can easily avoid those taxes
STOP SMOKING

who can easily avoid it....it is an ADDICTION isn't it? OR have you conveniently forgotten that part?

and if they all quit or all die, then WHAT? who gets taxed next for your spending?

these tax tricks are nothing but scams to hide their spending and putting it all on to the few, addicted.....it is inhumane!!!!

you confuse me with someone that supports those taxes in the first place

but, the reason for those increases in taxes are a direct result of smoking in the sense that its supposed to pay for the healthcare those smokers will need
however, i dont support doing those things
i dont support government price subsidies on tobacco either

no, i disagree with any sin taxes...gvt trying to control people's own freedom and none of the smokers get any kind of healthcare paid with their taxes for themselves, nothing....alcoholics don't get any of the extra taxes they collect off them either....

placing ridicuously high taxes on what is deemed ''sins'' is just wrong, and seems uncontitutional....if these things are sooooo wromg that gvt can punish you for it thru high taxes then why don't they just ban it....if it is not bad enough to ban, why should those doing it have to pay more taxes for doing such?

it's principle

 

[DiveCon]

who can easily avoid it....it is an ADDICTION isn't it? OR have you conveniently forgotten that part?

and if they all quit or all die, then WHAT? who gets taxed next for your spending?

these tax tricks are nothing but scams to hide their spending and putting it all on to the few, addicted.....it is inhumane!!!!

you confuse me with someone that supports those taxes in the first place

but, the reason for those increases in taxes are a direct result of smoking in the sense that its supposed to pay for the healthcare those smokers will need
however, i dont support doing those things
i dont support government price subsidies on tobacco either

no, i disagree with any sin taxes...gvt trying to control people's own freedom and none of the smokers get any kind of healthcare paid with their taxes for themselves, nothing....alcoholics don't get any of the extra taxes they collect off them either....

placing ridicuously high taxes on what is deemed ''sins'' is just wrong, and seems uncontitutional....if these things are sooooo wromg that gvt can punish you for it thru high taxes then why don't they just ban it....if it is not bad enough to ban, why should those doing it have to pay more taxes for doing such?

it's principle

do you also reject the things those taxes are supposed to pay for?
if not, who do you suppose should pay for those things?
surely you would not ask non-smnokers to pay for smokers healthcare

 

[Care4all]

you confuse me with someone that supports those taxes in the first place

but, the reason for those increases in taxes are a direct result of smoking in the sense that its supposed to pay for the healthcare those smokers will need
however, i dont support doing those things
i dont support government price subsidies on tobacco either

no, i disagree with any sin taxes...gvt trying to control people's own freedom and none of the smokers get any kind of healthcare paid with their taxes for themselves, nothing....alcoholics don't get any of the extra taxes they collect off them either....

placing ridicuously high taxes on what is deemed ''sins'' is just wrong, and seems uncontitutional....if these things are sooooo wromg that gvt can punish you for it thru high taxes then why don't they just ban it....if it is not bad enough to ban, why should those doing it have to pay more taxes for doing such?

it's principle

do you also reject the things those taxes are supposed to pay for?
if not, who do you suppose should pay for those things?
surely you would not ask non-smnokers to pay for smokers healthcare

everyone, or no one....that's why the flat tax with a standard deduction that everyone gets is how i would love to see reform...this would be for all spending, including ss, so killing ss taxes as well, maybe even killing the gas tax as well....

then everyone has a stake in what their representatives do...and maybe even watch them closer to restrict their spending.

 

[DiveCon]

no, i disagree with any sin taxes...gvt trying to control people's own freedom and none of the smokers get any kind of healthcare paid with their taxes for themselves, nothing....alcoholics don't get any of the extra taxes they collect off them either....

placing ridicuously high taxes on what is deemed ''sins'' is just wrong, and seems uncontitutional....if these things are sooooo wromg that gvt can punish you for it thru high taxes then why don't they just ban it....if it is not bad enough to ban, why should those doing it have to pay more taxes for doing such?

it's principle

do you also reject the things those taxes are supposed to pay for?
if not, who do you suppose should pay for those things?
surely you would not ask non-smnokers to pay for smokers healthcare

everyone, or no one....that's why the flat tax with a standard deduction that everyone gets is how i would love to see reform...this would be for all spending, including ss, so killing ss taxes as well, maybe even killing the gas tax as well....

then everyone has a stake in what their representatives do...and maybe even watch them closer to restrict their spending.

i support a flat tax
not so many liberals do

 

[Immanuel]

do you also reject the things those taxes are supposed to pay for?
if not, who do you suppose should pay for those things?
surely you would not ask non-smnokers to pay for smokers healthcare

everyone, or no one....that's why the flat tax with a standard deduction that everyone gets is how i would love to see reform...this would be for all spending, including ss, so killing ss taxes as well, maybe even killing the gas tax as well....

then everyone has a stake in what their representatives do...and maybe even watch them closer to restrict their spending.

i support a flat tax
not so many liberals do

I support the Fair Tax. The flat tax won't work. You think you have tax cheats now? Just wait until everyone can reduce taxes by hiding income. You think our GDP has fallen now? Just wait until everyone can save money by working under the table.

Immie

 

[DiveCon]

everyone, or no one....that's why the flat tax with a standard deduction that everyone gets is how i would love to see reform...this would be for all spending, including ss, so killing ss taxes as well, maybe even killing the gas tax as well....

then everyone has a stake in what their representatives do...and maybe even watch them closer to restrict their spending.

i support a flat tax
not so many liberals do

I support the Fair Tax. The flat tax won't work. You think you have tax cheats now? Just wait until everyone can reduce taxes by hiding income. You think our GDP has fallen now? Just wait until everyone can save money by working under the table.

Immie

they could do that now
with a flat tax, there are no deductions
so how will they hide money any less than they do now?

 

[Immanuel]

i support a flat tax
not so many liberals do

I support the Fair Tax. The flat tax won't work. You think you have tax cheats now? Just wait until everyone can reduce taxes by hiding income. You think our GDP has fallen now? Just wait until everyone can save money by working under the table.

Immie

they could do that now
with a flat tax, there are no deductions
so how will they hide money any less than they do now?

Easy, "you pay me cash here and now and I will cut the bill by X dollars." It does happen now, but not nearly as much as it would under a flat tax system.

Right now, as a business owner, I get my taxes reduced by paying you on payroll... I can write off your salary and other expenses (healthcare, my portion of your SS taxes etc) as a business expense if I report that I paid you X dollars. Under the Flat Tax, there would be no incentive for the employer to report your wages and thus everyone would be happy with a transaction taking place under the table.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

do you also reject the things those taxes are supposed to pay for?
if not, who do you suppose should pay for those things?
surely you would not ask non-smnokers to pay for smokers healthcare

everyone, or no one....that's why the flat tax with a standard deduction that everyone gets is how i would love to see reform...this would be for all spending, including ss, so killing ss taxes as well, maybe even killing the gas tax as well....

then everyone has a stake in what their representatives do...and maybe even watch them closer to restrict their spending.

i support a flat tax
not so many liberals do

I know it might sound weird, but back when the most of us were not taxed at all or very little on our income, while the very few at the top were taxed in a 90% bracket for their highest amounts earned, our congress actually spent less...or were better with their budget and did not expand the federal government's reach as much as they have, say the last 50 years....or so...

I've often wondered why this was the case?

Then i thought, ya know....if the top part of my income was taxed 90%, you would bet your bottom dollar that i expected the government to be good stewards of that money and not waste it.

And ever since the tax rates on the top have taken one reduction after another in their rates, putting more of the tax burden on to the middle class, (not the poor)than was previously, Congress's spending has increased....

so what does this mean? how can this help us figure out what kind of tax reforms are needed?

maybe a flat tax or a consumption tax really isn;t the answer?

maybe most all should be put on to the shoulders of the very few, the wealthiest only, like it was in the beginning because these very wealthiest are also the ones funding their campaigns, and if these congressmen understand something, and that is who funds their candidacies....

I tell ya, it sure would keep the government spending in line, like it did in the past, imo.

of course class warfare would be called and none of that would be heard of today for something such as that...i know this.

But what can we learn from it, if anything, to help us figure out a way to make our government more accountable, and maybe this is just a balance budget act or something...i dunno???

just kinda thinking out loud here....

 

[Care4all]

I support the Fair Tax. The flat tax won't work. You think you have tax cheats now? Just wait until everyone can reduce taxes by hiding income. You think our GDP has fallen now? Just wait until everyone can save money by working under the table.

Immie

they could do that now
with a flat tax, there are no deductions
so how will they hide money any less than they do now?

Easy, "you pay me cash here and now and I will cut the bill by X dollars." It does happen now, but not nearly as much as it would under a flat tax system.

Right now, as a business owner, I get my taxes reduced by paying you on payroll... I can write off your salary and other expenses (healthcare, my portion of your SS taxes etc) as a business expense if I report that I paid you X dollars. Under the Flat Tax, there would be no incentive for the employer to report your wages and thus everyone would be happy with a transaction taking place under the table.

Immie

maybe raising the penalty if they don't? Or something like that, could give the incentive to do such???

care

 

[Immanuel]

they could do that now
with a flat tax, there are no deductions
so how will they hide money any less than they do now?

Easy, "you pay me cash here and now and I will cut the bill by X dollars." It does happen now, but not nearly as much as it would under a flat tax system.

Right now, as a business owner, I get my taxes reduced by paying you on payroll... I can write off your salary and other expenses (healthcare, my portion of your SS taxes etc) as a business expense if I report that I paid you X dollars. Under the Flat Tax, there would be no incentive for the employer to report your wages and thus everyone would be happy with a transaction taking place under the table.

Immie

maybe raising the penalty if they don't? Or something like that, could give the incentive to do such???

care

Does raising the fine for speeding stop speeders? I'm here to attest that the answer to that is no.

Does increasing the tax on smokers stop them from smoking?

If they think they can get away with it, they will.

Immie

 

[DiveCon]

Easy, "you pay me cash here and now and I will cut the bill by X dollars." It does happen now, but not nearly as much as it would under a flat tax system.

Right now, as a business owner, I get my taxes reduced by paying you on payroll... I can write off your salary and other expenses (healthcare, my portion of your SS taxes etc) as a business expense if I report that I paid you X dollars. Under the Flat Tax, there would be no incentive for the employer to report your wages and thus everyone would be happy with a transaction taking place under the table.

Immie

maybe raising the penalty if they don't? Or something like that, could give the incentive to do such???

care

Does raising the fine for speeding stop speeders? I'm here to attest that the answer to that is no.

Does increasing the tax on smokers stop them from smoking?

If they think they can get away with it, they will.

Immie

just as they do right now
so it has nothing to do with the flat tax

 

[Care4all]

Easy, "you pay me cash here and now and I will cut the bill by X dollars." It does happen now, but not nearly as much as it would under a flat tax system.

Right now, as a business owner, I get my taxes reduced by paying you on payroll... I can write off your salary and other expenses (healthcare, my portion of your SS taxes etc) as a business expense if I report that I paid you X dollars. Under the Flat Tax, there would be no incentive for the employer to report your wages and thus everyone would be happy with a transaction taking place under the table.

Immie

maybe raising the penalty if they don't? Or something like that, could give the incentive to do such???

care

Does raising the fine for speeding stop speeders? I'm here to attest that the answer to that is no.

Does increasing the tax on smokers stop them from smoking?

If they think they can get away with it, they will.

Immie

then, you MIGHT actually be right immie....i may admit that you COULD be right, they will skip out... alright, alright...you probably are right...but what kind of incentive could be put in to keep them honest?

 

[DiveCon]

maybe raising the penalty if they don't? Or something like that, could give the incentive to do such???

care

Does raising the fine for speeding stop speeders? I'm here to attest that the answer to that is no.

Does increasing the tax on smokers stop them from smoking?

If they think they can get away with it, they will.

Immie

then, you MIGHT actually be right immie....i may admit that you COULD be right, they will skip out... alright, alright...you probably are right...but what kind of incentive could be put in to keep them honest?

what keeps them honest NOW?

 

[jreeves]

It's hard to imagine that sunseting Bush's tax cuts on income is class warfare. You'd think these people would be grateful for several years of paying less taxes.

Can you please tell me where Bush eliminated Carbon emission taxes or decreased SS tax responsibility? Or maybe where the Bush tax cuts increased the percent to which someone making over 250k a year can claim a charitable tax deduction? These are only a few of Obama's proposals to wage war on the upper class.

 

[Care4all]

Does raising the fine for speeding stop speeders? I'm here to attest that the answer to that is no.

Does increasing the tax on smokers stop them from smoking?

If they think they can get away with it, they will.

Immie

then, you MIGHT actually be right immie....i may admit that you COULD be right, they will skip out... alright, alright...you probably are right...but what kind of incentive could be put in to keep them honest?

what keeps them honest NOW?

the tax deduction of the employee's pay...that is given to the employer../the reason to claim every dime you are paying out in payroll...to get the deduction....

a flat tax, there are no deductions for businesses payroll.....

 

[DiveCon]

then, you MIGHT actually be right immie....i may admit that you COULD be right, they will skip out... alright, alright...you probably are right...but what kind of incentive could be put in to keep them honest?

what keeps them honest NOW?

the tax deduction of the employee's pay...that is given to the employer../the reason to claim every dime you are paying out in payroll...to get the deduction....

a flat tax, there are no deductions for businesses payroll.....

in a flat tax situation, there wouldnt be corp taxes
so that eliminates that

 

[Ravi]

then, you MIGHT actually be right immie....i may admit that you COULD be right, they will skip out... alright, alright...you probably are right...but what kind of incentive could be put in to keep them honest?

what keeps them honest NOW?

the tax deduction of the employee's pay...that is given to the employer../the reason to claim every dime you are paying out in payroll...to get the deduction....

a flat tax, there are no deductions for businesses payroll.....

I can't see business owners supporting a flat tax with no deductions

If you take in 1,000,000 in one year but after paying payroll, cost of goods, etc. you are left with $100,000 profit for your own income....you'd pay (at a 30% flat tax rate) tax on the 1,000,000...which would be $300,000. Instead of the current 28% on $100,000, which is $28,000.

 

[American Horse]

what keeps them honest NOW?

the tax deduction of the employee's pay...that is given to the employer../the reason to claim every dime you are paying out in payroll...to get the deduction....

a flat tax, there are no deductions for businesses payroll.....

I can't see business owners supporting a flat tax with no deductions

If you take in 1,000,000 in one year but after paying payroll, cost of goods, etc. you are left with $100,000 profit for your own income....you'd pay (at a 30% flat tax rate) tax on the 1,000,000...which would be $300,000. Instead of the current 28% on $100,000, which is $28,000.

A flat tax with no deductions would not apply to business owner's gross income (profit) and gross sales. The Flat tax scenario applies to individual income taxes thus not to business "expenses" which go to Schedule C 1040 and are subtracted from gross sales or gross income which becomes adjusted gross income which finally goes to form 1040 for individual application of the income tax. But this misconception will be attempted to be applied by those who see profit as an evil, and is telling of the perception of fairness which is not and can not be a part of the formula of taxation applied to individuals vis-à-vis business. They are like apples versus oranges for comparison.