23 Things They Don’t Tell You About Capitalism

[LordBrownTrout]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

no lobbyists then?

Nope, don't need them either, just a good product or service.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

*looks around America*

Really? You think so? I like it here.

Thank a Wobbly today

So.. how much weed do you smoke on a daily basis?

your posting has really gone down hill lately...

Well, gee, I apologize.

 

[Woyzeck]

One thing they never tell you about Marxism/Socialism/Communism:

IT CAUSES DEATH AND MISERY EVERY TIME IT IS TRIED

Some people on here consider Europe socialist. I see modern Europe and Canada are cannibal holocaust wastelands these days due to their socialist policies.

 

[snjmom]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service.

A corporation requires a government that will use it's legitimate right to use force to enforce the contracts it makes. Otherwise it must develop it's own army and that siphons off profits.

 

[JBeukema]

One thing they never tell you about Marxism/Socialism/Communism:

IT CAUSES DEATH AND MISERY EVERY TIME IT IS TRIED

*looks around America*

Really? You think so? I like it here.

Thank a Wobbly today

So.. how much weed do you smoke on a daily basis?

Liking America means I must be high?

 

[JBeukema]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

no lobbyists then?

Nope, don't need them either, just a good product or service.

What world do you live in?

 

[AquaAthena]

One thing they never tell you about Marxism/Socialism/Communism:

IT CAUSES DEATH AND MISERY EVERY TIME IT IS TRIED

And according to Karl Marx: 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

And according to Ronald Reagan: How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote...ount=50&Start=51&RestrictToCategory=communism

 

[JBeukema]

I was gonna read Agua's post, but I got distracted by her avatar

 

[JBeukema]

You can't be both a communist and a socialist.

Socialists and Marxists don't get along- one sees the other as Utopian fools and tyrants while the other sees the first as capitalist-apologists and tools of the bourgeoisie.

JB is not welcome in communist circles, nor will Marxists find themselves at ease around a bunch of social democrats.

Then there's the anarcho-socialist crowd- basically Libertarians who think they look good in red.

But most of all I hate the democratic socialists like Maxine Waters. They'd see us turn into a bureaucratic collectivist nightmare.

Maybe four active USMBers understood any of the above. Half are foaming at the mouth about Progressiveness and Liberalism, a third are mad that I insulted the Party and don't even know what they're for but do know that profits are evil for some reason unless the company is 'green', and the rest have a glazed-over look in their eyes.

 

[bucs90]

One thing they don't tell you about socialism: It leads to communism (aka, the USSR, China, Venezuela, Cuba, N. Korea, Nazi party)

 

[bucs90]

One thing they never tell you about Marxism/Socialism/Communism:

IT CAUSES DEATH AND MISERY EVERY TIME IT IS TRIED

And according to Karl Marx: 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

And according to Ronald Reagan: How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote...ount=50&Start=51&RestrictToCategory=communism

I try to tell all these libtards that Karl Marx was a huge inspiration for Hitler, although Hitler hated his Jewness, he liked his ideals, including Eugenics.

Marx and the Nazi Party had a LOT in common. Read Marx, the study Nazis. It's Marx ideals put into practice.

 

[JBeukema]

One thing they don't tell you about socialism: It leads to communism (aka, the USSR, China, Venezuela, Cuba, N. Korea, Nazi party)

For one thing, NAZIsm is more akin to fascism than to communism

Ask the communists the nazis killed or chased out of Germany.

Once again, Arthur Koestler- who was among those communists fleeing the SS- is brought to mind.

 

[georgephillip]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

What Does GE Need?

"Take GE, for example. GE has $36Bn in sales and paid $431M in taxes (15% of net profits) in 2009.

"They also paid out $9Bn in dividends and over $24Bn in 2008 and 2007 and in 2007 they bought back their own stock but, in those three years, they paid -(NEGATIVE) $900M in taxes! Are you feeling victimized yet?

"Does GE use our infrastructure?

"Do they use our public airwaves?

"Are they protected by our police?

"Is our army out there fighting and dying to protect them?

"Do they take money from our government?

"Do we educate their employees?

"This is the INSANITY of the US tax system.

Do private fortunes exist without government?

 

[Avorysuds]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

What Does GE Need?

"Take GE, for example. GE has $36Bn in sales and paid $431M in taxes (15% of net profits) in 2009.

"They also paid out $9Bn in dividends and over $24Bn in 2008 and 2007 and in 2007 they bought back their own stock but, in those three years, they paid -(NEGATIVE) $900M in taxes! Are you feeling victimized yet?

"Does GE use our infrastructure?

"Do they use our public airwaves?

"Are they protected by our police?

"Is our army out there fighting and dying to protect them?

"Do they take money from our government?

"Do we educate their employees?

"This is the INSANITY of the US tax system.

Do private fortunes exist without government?

I'm pretty sure you missed the point. It's not that a company DID take or use Government help/whatever... It's that a strong company should not need to. When you show that GE gets kick backs that's not the free market failing, that's the Government failing due to having too much power and money.

One good reason for smaller Government is the example of GE you gave. A smaller Government could less afford to screw over the tax payers by giving hand outs. The "free marker" is not perfect in that yes people can get scammed and hurt, however when Government takes over you will see scams and people getting hurt/dying in record numbers... as proven by history no less.

 

[whitehall]

There is no such thing as a free market
What they tell you

Markets need to be free. When the government interferes to dictate what market participants can or cannot do, resources cannot flow to their most efficient use. If people cannot do the things that they find most profitable, they lose the incentive to invest and innovate. Thus, if the government puts a cap on house rents, landlords lose the incentive to maintain their properties or build new ones. Or, if the government restricts the kinds of financial products that can be sold, two contracting parties that may both have benefited from innovative transactions that fulfill their idiosyncratic needs cannot reap the potential gains of free contract. People must be left "free to choose," as the title of free-market visionary Milton Friedman’s famous book goes.

What they don’t tell you

The free market doesn’t exist. Every market has some rules and boundaries that restrict freedom of choice. A market looks free only because we so unconditionally accept its underlying restrictions that we fail to see them. How "free" a market is cannot be objectively defined. It is a political definition. The usual claim by free-market economists that they are trying to defend the market from politically motivated interference by the government is false. Government is always involved and those free-marketeers are as politically motivated as anyone. Overcoming the myth that there is such a thing as an objectively defined "free market" is the first step towards understanding capitalism.

Labor ought to be free

In 1819 new legislation to regulate child labor, the Cotton Factories Regulation Act, was tabled in the British Parliament. The proposed regulation was incredibly "light touch" by modern standards. It would ban the employment of young children – that is, those under the age of nine. Older children (aged between ten and sixteen) would still be allowed to work, but with their working hours restricted to twelve per day (yes, they were really going soft on those kids). The new rules applied only to cotton factories, which were recognized to be exceptionally hazardous to workers’ health.

The proposal caused huge controversy. Opponents saw it as undermining the sanctity of freedom of contract and thus destroying the very foundation of the free market. In debating this legislation, some members of the House of Lords objected to it on the grounds that "labor ought to be free." Their argument said: the children want (and need) to work, and the factory owners want to employ them; what is the problem?

Today, even the most ardent free-market proponents in Britain or other rich countries would not think of bringing child labor back as part of the market liberalization package that they so want. However, until the late 19th or the early 20th century, when the first serious child labor regulations were introduced in Europe and North America, many respectable people judged child labour regulation to be against the principles of the free market.

Thus seen, the "freedom" of a market is, like beauty, in the eyes of the beholder. If you believe that the right of children not to have to work is more important than the right of factory owners to be able to hire whoever they find most profitable, you will not see a ban on child labor as an infringement on the freedom of the labor market. If you believe the opposite, you will see an "unfree" market, shackled by a misguided government regulation.

We don’t have to go back two centuries to see regulations we take for granted (and accept as the "ambient noise" within the free market) that were seriously challenged as undermining the free market, when first introduced. When environmental regulations (e.g., regulations on car and factory emissions) appeared a few decades ago, they were opposed by many as serious infringements on our freedom to choose. Their opponents asked: if people want to drive in more polluting cars or if factories find more polluting production methods more profitable, why should the government prevent them from making such choices? Today, most people accept these regulations as "natural." They believe that actions that harm others, however unintentionally (such as pollution), need to be restricted.

ZNet | ZNet Top Page

Yeah, go ahead and educate us about semantics pukemia. There is no such thing as a free market. That's true. There is no such thing as free speech either. If socialists like you ever get control of the government there will be no such thing as freedom period.

 

[8537]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Corporations sure wouldn't produce much without government.

 

[snjmom]

The free market also includes the market in power and political influence.

 

[georgephillip]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

What Does GE Need?

"Take GE, for example. GE has $36Bn in sales and paid $431M in taxes (15% of net profits) in 2009.

"They also paid out $9Bn in dividends and over $24Bn in 2008 and 2007 and in 2007 they bought back their own stock but, in those three years, they paid -(NEGATIVE) $900M in taxes! Are you feeling victimized yet?

"Does GE use our infrastructure?

"Do they use our public airwaves?

"Are they protected by our police?

"Is our army out there fighting and dying to protect them?

"Do they take money from our government?

"Do we educate their employees?

"This is the INSANITY of the US tax system.

Do private fortunes exist without government?

I'm pretty sure you missed the point. It's not that a company DID take or use Government help/whatever... It's that a strong company should not need to. When you show that GE gets kick backs that's not the free market failing, that's the Government failing due to having too much power and money.

One good reason for smaller Government is the example of GE you gave. A smaller Government could less afford to screw over the tax payers by giving hand outs. The "free marker" is not perfect in that yes people can get scammed and hurt, however when Government takes over you will see scams and people getting hurt/dying in record numbers... as proven by history no less.

Another point many of us may be missing is whether big government and big business conspiring in a free market economic model based on "high-energy technology, endless extraction, and the generation of massive amounts of toxic waste" is setting this specie up for existential failure?

Robert Jensen

 

[LordBrownTrout]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

What Does GE Need?

"Take GE, for example. GE has $36Bn in sales and paid $431M in taxes (15% of net profits) in 2009.

"They also paid out $9Bn in dividends and over $24Bn in 2008 and 2007 and in 2007 they bought back their own stock but, in those three years, they paid -(NEGATIVE) $900M in taxes! Are you feeling victimized yet?

"Does GE use our infrastructure?

"Do they use our public airwaves?

"Are they protected by our police?

"Is our army out there fighting and dying to protect them?

"Do they take money from our government?

"Do we educate their employees?

"This is the INSANITY of the US tax system.

Do private fortunes exist without government?

That's our infrastructure, not the federal governments, GP. Believe me, I'm against any govt/corporate collusion. But an honest company, llc, scorp, inc, doesn't need govt handouts to survive. Government does not produce anything. They rely completely on taxation to survive.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Corporations sure wouldn't produce much without government.

They would do much better. However, a corporation should not have free reign to pollute ie air, water, soil, and so.