2017 Tax Cuts Helped Super-rich Pay Lower Rate Than Bottom 50 Percent

[CWayne]

Yet the amount, not the percentage, that is paid to the government is all that the government cares about.

Did you pay X amount or X percent, whichever is greater?

The government ONLY cares about which is the greater.

And my point is how this impacts US, the middle class who are being fucked over year after year. The focus of my post is not how much the government is taking in.

So, explain it then.

How is it that we, the middle class, are being fucked over, year after year?

Are we less 'fucked over' if the rich are more fucked over?
Has there ever been a tax increase that fucks over the rich but not the middle class?
Has anyone ever been rewarded by fucking over some subset of humanity?
More importantly, what makes the middle class the middle class? Is it the taxes they don't pay?
Are we the middle class because money confiscated from one group at the top, then redistributed to policial lackeys and the very bottom of the social scale are desireable?

Then there is the big one.

What does the government need 5 trillion dollars for?

Does it all go to the middle class? Because if it did, why then we wouldn't be fucked every year, would we? Oh, but then, if we got all the 5 trillion year after year, then the bottom class would resent us too!

So, how is it that taxes make or break the middle class?

BTW, how do you define the middle class? By their taxation or by their income?

How about pick one question and we'll go from there. We both know if I answer all of these you'll cherry pick my answers. So pick one and we'll start with that.

Actually, I won't. I don't care how you answer it, to be frank. -->Shut up Frank it was only a moment.

If you've been paying attention, I just want you to do more than insult or give flippant answers.

It is likely I won't agree with anything you have to say. Then again, I may, in fact, think some of it has merit or even outright agree with you.

But the whole thing is, I want to know WHY, in the face of a lack of evidence, you say that the middle class is getting 'fucked, year after year'.

And I wanted to point out that the premise of your OP was wrong, and that the only people who can get tax cuts are those who actually pay taxes.

From there, maybe a conversation about how the government decides what it needs to spend and why none of that involves priorities can be had.

So Im glad I asked since you don't want to have a real conversation. I learned a long time ago that 9 out of 10 people on this site don't want to have any sort of real conversation. So I don't look for it anymore. I come here to marvel at the people who will actively support policies that will hurt themselves while pretending that that people who advocate for better healthcare, better education and ensuring that the middle class has a fighting chance are somehow the evil ones.

How strange. I opened the door for a real conversation. I'm not sure how you get that I didn't.

Advocating for better healthcare, education, and the middle class does not mean you are correct. Also, sometimes doing what is best for a country is not always what is best for a persons own personal situation.

If you only do what is best for you, and the rest of the 300+ million argue what is best for them as individuals, then we don't really have a country. Do we?

That kind of thinking strikes me as selfish. Sometimes, you have to say, I can benefit if I hurt others, but today, I won't.

 

[RDD_1210]

And my point is how this impacts US, the middle class who are being fucked over year after year. The focus of my post is not how much the government is taking in.

So, explain it then.

How is it that we, the middle class, are being fucked over, year after year?

Are we less 'fucked over' if the rich are more fucked over?
Has there ever been a tax increase that fucks over the rich but not the middle class?
Has anyone ever been rewarded by fucking over some subset of humanity?
More importantly, what makes the middle class the middle class? Is it the taxes they don't pay?
Are we the middle class because money confiscated from one group at the top, then redistributed to policial lackeys and the very bottom of the social scale are desireable?

Then there is the big one.

What does the government need 5 trillion dollars for?

Does it all go to the middle class? Because if it did, why then we wouldn't be fucked every year, would we? Oh, but then, if we got all the 5 trillion year after year, then the bottom class would resent us too!

So, how is it that taxes make or break the middle class?

BTW, how do you define the middle class? By their taxation or by their income?

How about pick one question and we'll go from there. We both know if I answer all of these you'll cherry pick my answers. So pick one and we'll start with that.

Actually, I won't. I don't care how you answer it, to be frank. -->Shut up Frank it was only a moment.

If you've been paying attention, I just want you to do more than insult or give flippant answers.

It is likely I won't agree with anything you have to say. Then again, I may, in fact, think some of it has merit or even outright agree with you.

But the whole thing is, I want to know WHY, in the face of a lack of evidence, you say that the middle class is getting 'fucked, year after year'.

And I wanted to point out that the premise of your OP was wrong, and that the only people who can get tax cuts are those who actually pay taxes.

From there, maybe a conversation about how the government decides what it needs to spend and why none of that involves priorities can be had.

So Im glad I asked since you don't want to have a real conversation. I learned a long time ago that 9 out of 10 people on this site don't want to have any sort of real conversation. So I don't look for it anymore. I come here to marvel at the people who will actively support policies that will hurt themselves while pretending that that people who advocate for better healthcare, better education and ensuring that the middle class has a fighting chance are somehow the evil ones.

How strange. I opened the door for a real conversation. I'm not sure how you get that I didn't.

Advocating for better healthcare, education, and the middle class does not mean you are correct. Also, sometimes doing what is best for a country is not always what is best for a persons own personal situation.

If you only do what is best for you, and the rest of the 300+ million argue what is best for them as individuals, then we don't really have a country. Do we?

That kind of thinking strikes me as selfish. Sometimes, you have to say, I can benefit if I hurt others, but today, I won't.

I have healthcare, I have an education that I have paid off. But I can see the value in ensuring everyone has access to affordable healthcare. I can see the value in bringing down the costs for education while increasing the quality. So while neither of those directly impact me I can see how it helps the country as a whole. I'm pretty sure it's mostly conservatives who are the ones who oppose these sort of efforts because god forbid it doesn't directly benefit them.

 

[OnePercenter]

Trump gave the rich a trillion dollars in tax cuts. That’s enough to money spend a million dollars every single day from 700 BC to 2019 AD.

A million dollars, blown, every single day. From the beginnings of Ancient Rome, to Jesus, through the dark ages and the Renaissance, America’s founding and every day of its existence.

A million dollars every day of every week, every week of every month, every month of every year, every year of every decade, every decade of every century, every century of every millennium.

And they didn’t even need it. While 20% of our children live in poverty, which makes us close to the worst developed country at taking care of our kids.

Total bullshit.

That's reality, and "Tex-ass" is one of the worst.

 

[Cellblock2429]

You probably failed math in school, huh?
Let's see.
John payed 1% of 1,000,000 dollars in taxes.
Fred payed 5% of 20,000 dollars in taxes. Who payed in MORE taxes, Fred or John?

Fred. He paid 5%.

5% is more then 1% as a percentage of income which is what we're talking about. Tax % rate.

Good try at changing the conversation though Dick.

/—-/ Your reply is so moronic it defiles description

I'm sorry you can't understand how %'s work.

/—-/ I understand how percentages work, but you are under the idiotic notion that if everyone paid the same percent, say 5%, it would be fair. So answer the above question:
John payed 1% of 1,000,000 dollars in taxes.
Fred payed 5% of 20,000 dollars in taxes. Who payed in MORE taxes, Fred or John?[

Do you mean to tell me you think you should be paying a bigger percentage of your income to the government than Bill Gates? You think you should be giving up 25% of your income to the government but Jeff Bezos should give up less of his income?

/——-/ Forget the percentage, it’s the $$$$ you pay. Trade tax bills with Gates if you think he’s getting a bargain. I’m sure he’d make the trade. Geeeeze what a bunch of dopes.

 

[RDD_1210]

Fred. He paid 5%.

5% is more then 1% as a percentage of income which is what we're talking about. Tax % rate.

Good try at changing the conversation though Dick.

/—-/ Your reply is so moronic it defiles description

I'm sorry you can't understand how %'s work.

/—-/ I understand how percentages work, but you are under the idiotic notion that if everyone paid the same percent, say 5%, it would be fair. So answer the above question:
John payed 1% of 1,000,000 dollars in taxes.
Fred payed 5% of 20,000 dollars in taxes. Who payed in MORE taxes, Fred or John?[

Do you mean to tell me you think you should be paying a bigger percentage of your income to the government than Bill Gates? You think you should be giving up 25% of your income to the government but Jeff Bezos should give up less of his income?

/——-/ Forget the percentage, it’s the $$$$ you pay. Trade tax bills with Gates if you think he’s getting a bargain. I’m sure he’d make the trade. Geeeeze what a bunch of dopes.

But that's the whole point, it is about %. Total amount doesn't matter as much as what percentage you have to give up. Why should the rich have to give up less % of what they make than you do?

You don't even want it to be equal?? You're really drinking the corporate kool-aid. This goes beyond your masters wildest dreams.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We're all being taken advantage of by the upper 1%. The nonsense that we bicker about just allows them to continue to bleed us dry and enrich themselves even further.

" Showed that since the 1960s the effective rate paid by the richest 400 families has been in general decline amid tax cuts and the emergence of sophisticated tax avoidance. Then, in 2018, their tax rate fell sharply. Those families paid an effective average tax rate of 23 percent that year, below the 24.2 percent paid by the bottom half of American households. Back in the 1960s, the richest were paying close to 60 percent and the bottom half just over 20 percent"

Trump's 2017 tax cuts helped super-rich pay lower rate than bottom 50 percent: Economists

Did you beggars ever bitch about the top 20% paying 87% of our income taxes?
Can you link us to your bitching so you retain some credibility?

You're an excellent lap dog.

Just waiting to maybe have the scraps fall from your masters table.

Would you rather steal from your master?

 

[CWayne]

So, explain it then.

How is it that we, the middle class, are being fucked over, year after year?

Are we less 'fucked over' if the rich are more fucked over?
Has there ever been a tax increase that fucks over the rich but not the middle class?
Has anyone ever been rewarded by fucking over some subset of humanity?
More importantly, what makes the middle class the middle class? Is it the taxes they don't pay?
Are we the middle class because money confiscated from one group at the top, then redistributed to policial lackeys and the very bottom of the social scale are desireable?

Then there is the big one.

What does the government need 5 trillion dollars for?

Does it all go to the middle class? Because if it did, why then we wouldn't be fucked every year, would we? Oh, but then, if we got all the 5 trillion year after year, then the bottom class would resent us too!

So, how is it that taxes make or break the middle class?

BTW, how do you define the middle class? By their taxation or by their income?

How about pick one question and we'll go from there. We both know if I answer all of these you'll cherry pick my answers. So pick one and we'll start with that.

Actually, I won't. I don't care how you answer it, to be frank. -->Shut up Frank it was only a moment.

If you've been paying attention, I just want you to do more than insult or give flippant answers.

It is likely I won't agree with anything you have to say. Then again, I may, in fact, think some of it has merit or even outright agree with you.

But the whole thing is, I want to know WHY, in the face of a lack of evidence, you say that the middle class is getting 'fucked, year after year'.

And I wanted to point out that the premise of your OP was wrong, and that the only people who can get tax cuts are those who actually pay taxes.

From there, maybe a conversation about how the government decides what it needs to spend and why none of that involves priorities can be had.

So Im glad I asked since you don't want to have a real conversation. I learned a long time ago that 9 out of 10 people on this site don't want to have any sort of real conversation. So I don't look for it anymore. I come here to marvel at the people who will actively support policies that will hurt themselves while pretending that that people who advocate for better healthcare, better education and ensuring that the middle class has a fighting chance are somehow the evil ones.

How strange. I opened the door for a real conversation. I'm not sure how you get that I didn't.

Advocating for better healthcare, education, and the middle class does not mean you are correct. Also, sometimes doing what is best for a country is not always what is best for a persons own personal situation.

If you only do what is best for you, and the rest of the 300+ million argue what is best for them as individuals, then we don't really have a country. Do we?

That kind of thinking strikes me as selfish. Sometimes, you have to say, I can benefit if I hurt others, but today, I won't.

I have healthcare, I have an education that I have paid off. But I can see the value in ensuring everyone has access to affordable healthcare. I can see the value in bringing down the costs for education while increasing the quality. So while neither of those directly impact me I can see how it helps the country as a whole. I'm pretty sure it's mostly conservatives who are the ones who oppose these sort of efforts because god forbid it doesn't directly benefit them.

Okay, good. So, lets look at this.

You see the value in insuring access to affordable healthcare. How do you accomplish making healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others? This does not benefit the country. Taking from others never benefits those who are forcibly made to comply. How do you make healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others?

The costs of education are now a direct result of free money provided by government-backed guarantees of taxpayers. The current argument goes, we all benefit from an educated populace. The truth is, we all benefit from modern plumbing, modern delivery of electricity, safe buildings that meet specific codes, ships that bring us goods from afar, rail cars that move goods cheaply all across the country, and a host of other trades that directly benefit more Americans than any college education ever could. Where is the support for training and education that provides a better life to more people?

Some of this doesn't directly impact me, but much of it does. You see, I benefit, and so does society, from my having a valuable skill that an employer needs and a skill this employer is willing to pay well for and offer good benefits to retain me. My healthcare is covered two-fold. I pay for my insurance (through my employer) and I ensure that my personal budget is such that I can set aside money to cover any health expenses I may have not covered by the deductible. I accomplish this through mature planning and understanding of my income and limitations so I do not have so much debt that I cannot provide the very basics for my life. Society benefits greatly from this.

Society would benefit greatly if everyone did this.

 

[mikegriffith1]

We're all being taken advantage of by the upper 1%. The nonsense that we bicker about just allows them to continue to bleed us dry and enrich themselves even further.

" Showed that since the 1960s the effective rate paid by the richest 400 families has been in general decline amid tax cuts and the emergence of sophisticated tax avoidance. Then, in 2018, their tax rate fell sharply. Those families paid an effective average tax rate of 23 percent that year, below the 24.2 percent paid by the bottom half of American households. Back in the 1960s, the richest were paying close to 60 percent and the bottom half just over 20 percent"

Trump's 2017 tax cuts helped super-rich pay lower rate than bottom 50 percent: Economists

That is pure HOGWASH. You find me a family or individual in "the bottom half of American households" who paid a tax rate of 24.2% in 2018! I dare you! Only someone who makes *over* $165K per year could end up with a tax rate of 24%! The top marginal tax rate for people who make under $165K per year, and more than $77K per year, is 22%. That's the third tax bracket, the one I'm in. Check the tax code. So you tell me how anyone making, say, $100K per year could end up with a tax rate of 24.2%, much less someone who makes $70K or below. This I gotta hear.

 

[Dick Foster]

We're all being taken advantage of by the upper 1%. The nonsense that we bicker about just allows them to continue to bleed us dry and enrich themselves even further.

" Showed that since the 1960s the effective rate paid by the richest 400 families has been in general decline amid tax cuts and the emergence of sophisticated tax avoidance. Then, in 2018, their tax rate fell sharply. Those families paid an effective average tax rate of 23 percent that year, below the 24.2 percent paid by the bottom half of American households. Back in the 1960s, the richest were paying close to 60 percent and the bottom half just over 20 percent"

Trump's 2017 tax cuts helped super-rich pay lower rate than bottom 50 percent: Economists

You probably failed math in school, huh?
Let's see.
John payed 1% of 1,000,000 dollars in taxes.
Fred payed 5% of 20,000 dollars in taxes. Who payed in MORE taxes, Fred or John?

Fred. He paid 5%.

5% is more then 1% as a percentage of income which is what we're talking about. Tax % rate.

Good try at changing the conversation though Dick.

Shit, your dumb ass not only flunked math you can't read worth a shit either. You're a fine example of our democratic run, looney left leaning public school system. The question was, who payed in more tax dollars. That is, who payed the greater amount. I asked the question so I get to decide what the question is. That's how it works in the real world, shitforbrains.

I mean, I know you're not smart. You know you're not smart. But let's try this again.

My thread is about tax rate...which is calculated as a %. Not total tax revenues. I know this is confusing for someone who wears a name-tag to work but perhaps you should stick to topics you know and don't embarrass yourself.

Perhaps you can tell us about which microwaveable mac-n-cheez goes best with Busch Beer.

Hey shitforbrains, 100% of nothing is still nothing.
The, upper 10% pays over 90% of the friggin taxes now. Let me guess, you punch a clock and you aren't in the top 10%. You pay rent and have to make car payments yet you have a lot of toys and tattoos while spending a large part of your time with your ass on the couch drooling over some sports show on the tube. If you even went to college it was for some half-assed liberal arts degree for which you still owe money.

 

[RDD_1210]

How about pick one question and we'll go from there. We both know if I answer all of these you'll cherry pick my answers. So pick one and we'll start with that.

Actually, I won't. I don't care how you answer it, to be frank. -->Shut up Frank it was only a moment.

If you've been paying attention, I just want you to do more than insult or give flippant answers.

It is likely I won't agree with anything you have to say. Then again, I may, in fact, think some of it has merit or even outright agree with you.

But the whole thing is, I want to know WHY, in the face of a lack of evidence, you say that the middle class is getting 'fucked, year after year'.

And I wanted to point out that the premise of your OP was wrong, and that the only people who can get tax cuts are those who actually pay taxes.

From there, maybe a conversation about how the government decides what it needs to spend and why none of that involves priorities can be had.

So Im glad I asked since you don't want to have a real conversation. I learned a long time ago that 9 out of 10 people on this site don't want to have any sort of real conversation. So I don't look for it anymore. I come here to marvel at the people who will actively support policies that will hurt themselves while pretending that that people who advocate for better healthcare, better education and ensuring that the middle class has a fighting chance are somehow the evil ones.

How strange. I opened the door for a real conversation. I'm not sure how you get that I didn't.

Advocating for better healthcare, education, and the middle class does not mean you are correct. Also, sometimes doing what is best for a country is not always what is best for a persons own personal situation.

If you only do what is best for you, and the rest of the 300+ million argue what is best for them as individuals, then we don't really have a country. Do we?

That kind of thinking strikes me as selfish. Sometimes, you have to say, I can benefit if I hurt others, but today, I won't.

I have healthcare, I have an education that I have paid off. But I can see the value in ensuring everyone has access to affordable healthcare. I can see the value in bringing down the costs for education while increasing the quality. So while neither of those directly impact me I can see how it helps the country as a whole. I'm pretty sure it's mostly conservatives who are the ones who oppose these sort of efforts because god forbid it doesn't directly benefit them.

Okay, good. So, lets look at this.

You see the value in insuring access to affordable healthcare. How do you accomplish making healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others? This does not benefit the country. Taking from others never benefits those who are forcibly made to comply. How do you make healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others?

The costs of education are now a direct result of free money provided by government-backed guarantees of taxpayers. The current argument goes, we all benefit from an educated populace. The truth is, we all benefit from modern plumbing, modern delivery of electricity, safe buildings that meet specific codes, ships that bring us goods from afar, rail cars that move goods cheaply all across the country, and a host of other trades that directly benefit more Americans than any college education ever could. Where is the support for training and education that provides a better life to more people?

Some of this doesn't directly impact me, but much of it does. You see, I benefit, and so does society, from my having a valuable skill that an employer needs and a skill this employer is willing to pay well for and offer good benefits to retain me. My healthcare is covered two-fold. I pay for my insurance (through my employer) and I ensure that my personal budget is such that I can set aside money to cover any health expenses I may have not covered by the deductible. I accomplish this through mature planning and understanding of my income and limitations so I do not have so much debt that I cannot provide the very basics for my life. Society benefits greatly from this.

Society would benefit greatly if everyone did this.

What rights are being trampled by making healthcare affordable? The right to not have healthcare? Everyone needs medical attention at some point in their life. If someone truly wants to opt out and live off the grid and not be able to see a doctor should they get injured/sick...then sure, let them opt out and sign an agreement that says they can never be treated unless they pay cash up front. But for the rest of society that does accept the reality that sickness will eventually come, having as many people in the same pool will help bring down the cost for everyone.

 

[CWayne]

Actually, I won't. I don't care how you answer it, to be frank. -->Shut up Frank it was only a moment.

If you've been paying attention, I just want you to do more than insult or give flippant answers.

It is likely I won't agree with anything you have to say. Then again, I may, in fact, think some of it has merit or even outright agree with you.

But the whole thing is, I want to know WHY, in the face of a lack of evidence, you say that the middle class is getting 'fucked, year after year'.

And I wanted to point out that the premise of your OP was wrong, and that the only people who can get tax cuts are those who actually pay taxes.

From there, maybe a conversation about how the government decides what it needs to spend and why none of that involves priorities can be had.

So Im glad I asked since you don't want to have a real conversation. I learned a long time ago that 9 out of 10 people on this site don't want to have any sort of real conversation. So I don't look for it anymore. I come here to marvel at the people who will actively support policies that will hurt themselves while pretending that that people who advocate for better healthcare, better education and ensuring that the middle class has a fighting chance are somehow the evil ones.

How strange. I opened the door for a real conversation. I'm not sure how you get that I didn't.

Advocating for better healthcare, education, and the middle class does not mean you are correct. Also, sometimes doing what is best for a country is not always what is best for a persons own personal situation.

If you only do what is best for you, and the rest of the 300+ million argue what is best for them as individuals, then we don't really have a country. Do we?

That kind of thinking strikes me as selfish. Sometimes, you have to say, I can benefit if I hurt others, but today, I won't.

I have healthcare, I have an education that I have paid off. But I can see the value in ensuring everyone has access to affordable healthcare. I can see the value in bringing down the costs for education while increasing the quality. So while neither of those directly impact me I can see how it helps the country as a whole. I'm pretty sure it's mostly conservatives who are the ones who oppose these sort of efforts because god forbid it doesn't directly benefit them.

Okay, good. So, lets look at this.

You see the value in insuring access to affordable healthcare. How do you accomplish making healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others? This does not benefit the country. Taking from others never benefits those who are forcibly made to comply. How do you make healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others?

The costs of education are now a direct result of free money provided by government-backed guarantees of taxpayers. The current argument goes, we all benefit from an educated populace. The truth is, we all benefit from modern plumbing, modern delivery of electricity, safe buildings that meet specific codes, ships that bring us goods from afar, rail cars that move goods cheaply all across the country, and a host of other trades that directly benefit more Americans than any college education ever could. Where is the support for training and education that provides a better life to more people?

Some of this doesn't directly impact me, but much of it does. You see, I benefit, and so does society, from my having a valuable skill that an employer needs and a skill this employer is willing to pay well for and offer good benefits to retain me. My healthcare is covered two-fold. I pay for my insurance (through my employer) and I ensure that my personal budget is such that I can set aside money to cover any health expenses I may have not covered by the deductible. I accomplish this through mature planning and understanding of my income and limitations so I do not have so much debt that I cannot provide the very basics for my life. Society benefits greatly from this.

Society would benefit greatly if everyone did this.

What rights are being trampled by making healthcare affordable? The right to not have healthcare? Everyone needs medical attention at some point in their life. If someone truly wants to opt out and live off the grid and not be able to see a doctor should they get injured/sick...then sure, let them opt out and sign an agreement that says they can never be treated unless they pay cash up front. But for the rest of society that does accept the reality that sickness will eventually come, having as many people in the same pool will help bring down the cost for everyone.

You answered your own question. My right to pay for my stuff, and not yours. You would trample that right instead of ensuring that people are given the tools and motivation to provide it for themselves.

There is no right to have others pay your way, but there is a right to keep what you earn to provide for yourself and your family.

People will need medical attention at some point in their life. This is why they should be taught to plan for that necessity.

We can carry this on at a later time, but right now, I have to run.

 

[RDD_1210]

We're all being taken advantage of by the upper 1%. The nonsense that we bicker about just allows them to continue to bleed us dry and enrich themselves even further.

" Showed that since the 1960s the effective rate paid by the richest 400 families has been in general decline amid tax cuts and the emergence of sophisticated tax avoidance. Then, in 2018, their tax rate fell sharply. Those families paid an effective average tax rate of 23 percent that year, below the 24.2 percent paid by the bottom half of American households. Back in the 1960s, the richest were paying close to 60 percent and the bottom half just over 20 percent"

Trump's 2017 tax cuts helped super-rich pay lower rate than bottom 50 percent: Economists

You probably failed math in school, huh?
Let's see.
John payed 1% of 1,000,000 dollars in taxes.
Fred payed 5% of 20,000 dollars in taxes. Who payed in MORE taxes, Fred or John?

Fred. He paid 5%.

5% is more then 1% as a percentage of income which is what we're talking about. Tax % rate.

Good try at changing the conversation though Dick.

Shit, your dumb ass not only flunked math you can't read worth a shit either. You're a fine example of our democratic run, looney left leaning public school system. The question was, who payed in more tax dollars. That is, who payed the greater amount. I asked the question so I get to decide what the question is. That's how it works in the real world, shitforbrains.

I mean, I know you're not smart. You know you're not smart. But let's try this again.

My thread is about tax rate...which is calculated as a %. Not total tax revenues. I know this is confusing for someone who wears a name-tag to work but perhaps you should stick to topics you know and don't embarrass yourself.

Perhaps you can tell us about which microwaveable mac-n-cheez goes best with Busch Beer.

Hey shitforbrains, 100% of nothing is still nothing.
The, upper 10% pays over 90% of the friggin taxes now. Let me guess, you punch a clock and you aren't in the top 10%. You pay rent and have to make car payments yet you have a lot of toys and tattoos while spending a large part of your time with your ass on the couch drooling over some sports show on the tube. If you even went to college it was for some half-assed liberal arts degree for which you still owe money.

Let me see how many you got right.

1) I punch a clock - Wrong
2) I'm not in the top 10% - Right
3) I pay rent - Wrong
4) Make car payments - Right
5) Have a lot of toys and Tattoos - Not sure how you define toys but I have 0 tattoos - So we'll say Wrong
6) spend a large part of time with my ass in the couch - what is a "large part" to you? But we'll say wrong because I barely get to turn my tv on most days
7) Sports show - lol. Wrong
8) half-assed liberal arts degree - Wrong
9) Still owe money - Wrong

So 7 out of 9 wrong. Not too good there sparky.

But based on your track record in this thread, being right isn't really your thing to begin with.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I repeat: The Newsweek article is bogus. In order to pay a tax rate of 24.2%, a person would have to make over $165K per year. 24% is the rate for people in the fourth tax bracket, which starts at $165K per year. If you don't believe me, just go check the tax tables. Then, do tell us how someone in "the bottom of half of American households" could end up with a tax rate of 24.2%. That's just nonsense.

 

[BluesLegend]

The OP is a big fat liar. The 'rich' already pay the lions share of the taxes in this country, how is that fair?

 

[RDD_1210]

So Im glad I asked since you don't want to have a real conversation. I learned a long time ago that 9 out of 10 people on this site don't want to have any sort of real conversation. So I don't look for it anymore. I come here to marvel at the people who will actively support policies that will hurt themselves while pretending that that people who advocate for better healthcare, better education and ensuring that the middle class has a fighting chance are somehow the evil ones.

How strange. I opened the door for a real conversation. I'm not sure how you get that I didn't.

Advocating for better healthcare, education, and the middle class does not mean you are correct. Also, sometimes doing what is best for a country is not always what is best for a persons own personal situation.

If you only do what is best for you, and the rest of the 300+ million argue what is best for them as individuals, then we don't really have a country. Do we?

That kind of thinking strikes me as selfish. Sometimes, you have to say, I can benefit if I hurt others, but today, I won't.

I have healthcare, I have an education that I have paid off. But I can see the value in ensuring everyone has access to affordable healthcare. I can see the value in bringing down the costs for education while increasing the quality. So while neither of those directly impact me I can see how it helps the country as a whole. I'm pretty sure it's mostly conservatives who are the ones who oppose these sort of efforts because god forbid it doesn't directly benefit them.

Okay, good. So, lets look at this.

You see the value in insuring access to affordable healthcare. How do you accomplish making healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others? This does not benefit the country. Taking from others never benefits those who are forcibly made to comply. How do you make healthcare affordable without trampling the rights of others?

The costs of education are now a direct result of free money provided by government-backed guarantees of taxpayers. The current argument goes, we all benefit from an educated populace. The truth is, we all benefit from modern plumbing, modern delivery of electricity, safe buildings that meet specific codes, ships that bring us goods from afar, rail cars that move goods cheaply all across the country, and a host of other trades that directly benefit more Americans than any college education ever could. Where is the support for training and education that provides a better life to more people?

Some of this doesn't directly impact me, but much of it does. You see, I benefit, and so does society, from my having a valuable skill that an employer needs and a skill this employer is willing to pay well for and offer good benefits to retain me. My healthcare is covered two-fold. I pay for my insurance (through my employer) and I ensure that my personal budget is such that I can set aside money to cover any health expenses I may have not covered by the deductible. I accomplish this through mature planning and understanding of my income and limitations so I do not have so much debt that I cannot provide the very basics for my life. Society benefits greatly from this.

Society would benefit greatly if everyone did this.

What rights are being trampled by making healthcare affordable? The right to not have healthcare? Everyone needs medical attention at some point in their life. If someone truly wants to opt out and live off the grid and not be able to see a doctor should they get injured/sick...then sure, let them opt out and sign an agreement that says they can never be treated unless they pay cash up front. But for the rest of society that does accept the reality that sickness will eventually come, having as many people in the same pool will help bring down the cost for everyone.

You answered your own question. My right to pay for my stuff, and not yours. You would trample that right instead of ensuring that people are given the tools and motivation to provide it for themselves.

There is no right to have others pay your way, but there is a right to keep what you earn to provide for yourself and your family.

People will need medical attention at some point in their life. This is why they should be taught to plan for that necessity.

We can carry this on at a later time, but right now, I have to run.

Well if you're advocating the bypassing of insurance companies and their inclusion in our healthcare system than I am all for it as they add nothing of value to the healthcare process. But unfortunately our current healthcare system is designed in such a way that they are a necessary evil and are a contributing factor to increased costs. If you have a proposal to make healthcare costs affordable out of peoples pockets so that they have to choose between going bankrupt and getting medical treatment, then I'm all ears.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Easy solution: abolish income taxation......End the sniveling.

Dang, Oddball, I gave you like ten winners today, you're on a roll, man.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I repeat: The Newsweek article is bogus. In order to pay a tax rate of 24.2%, a person would have to make over $165K per year. 24% is the rate for people in the fourth tax bracket, which starts at $165K per year. If you don't believe me, just go check the tax tables. Then, do tell us how someone in "the bottom of half of American households" could end up with a tax rate of 24.2%. That's just nonsense.

What we're seeing happen is something that was mentioned here when the GOP tax plan was introduced. They're using Chained CPI. Chained CPI increases the inflation tax. This is not a tax on real wages. It's a regressive tax on the illusionary gains in income caused by inflation. Over time the use of Chained CPI to adjust tax brackets will bump people into higher tax brackets. We're already seeing it with the lower class.

Don't worry, the middle class's time will come. Sooner than later.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Trump gave the rich a trillion dollars in tax cuts. That’s enough to money spend a million dollars every single day from 700 BC to 2019 AD.

A million dollars, blown, every single day. From the beginnings of Ancient Rome, to Jesus, through the dark ages and the Renaissance, America’s founding and every day of its existence.

A million dollars every day of every week, every week of every month, every month of every year, every year of every decade, every decade of every century, every century of every millennium.

And they didn’t even need it. While 20% of our children live in poverty, which makes us close to the worst developed country at taking care of our kids.

Gave?

No he didnt take...


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Help the super rich and you help the rich...help the rich and you help the middle class...help the middle class and you help the lower class...help the lower class and you help the poor....

LOL! You really are gullible, aren't you?

Why you work for a homeless person, nah you get government cheese

 

[Wyatt earp]

We're all being taken advantage of by the upper 1%. The nonsense that we bicker about just allows them to continue to bleed us dry and enrich themselves even further.

" Showed that since the 1960s the effective rate paid by the richest 400 families has been in general decline amid tax cuts and the emergence of sophisticated tax avoidance. Then, in 2018, their tax rate fell sharply. Those families paid an effective average tax rate of 23 percent that year, below the 24.2 percent paid by the bottom half of American households. Back in the 1960s, the richest were paying close to 60 percent and the bottom half just over 20 percent"

Trump's 2017 tax cuts helped super-rich pay lower rate than bottom 50 percent: Economists

You probably failed math in school, huh?
Let's see.
John payed 1% of 1,000,000 dollars in taxes.
Fred payed 5% of 20,000 dollars in taxes. Who payed in MORE taxes, Fred or John?

Fred. He paid 5%.

5% is more then 1% as a percentage of income which is what we're talking about. Tax % rate.

Good try at changing the conversation though Dick.

Yet the amount, not the percentage, that is paid to the government is all that the government cares about.

Did you pay X amount or X percent, whichever is greater?

The government ONLY cares about which is the greater.

And my point is how this impacts US, the middle class who are being fucked over year after year. The focus of my post is not how much the government is taking in.

How is the middle class getting fucked over?

.

So you think a few thousand in taxes is more then a million dollars in taxes?

.