19 Facts On the Deindustrialization of America

[GHook93]

What is pushing America's manufacturing jobs overseas?
(1) Corporate Tax: 35% corporate tax (which regardless of popular misconception many companies pay) + State corporate tax. Put those togther they are the largest in the world. These taxes DRIVE up the price of goods big time
(2) Payroll Tax:The payroll tax, both the employer and employee pay it. It's a small business killer. It increases prices 10 fold and is a HUGE incentive to move overseas. These taxes drive up the price of goods big time.
(3) Over-regulation: Under-regulation isn't the answer. Rather smart regulation is the best answer. No more 1000-2000 page laws that no one understands, have parts that contradict each, have parts that don't have anything to do with the main point of the law, ones Congressman can't read before signing and ones that are so over-board it great meaningless regulations. Legislation used to be 10-20 pages. GO BACK TO THAT! If it legislation needs to be greater than 20 pages there must be a damn good reason or should be in two separate bills! Over-regulation drives up the cost of good big time.
(4) Unions (Esp. the Public Sector ones): Union corruption and billigerence. Unions don't protect the worker anymore, nor do they create jobs. Rather they are a prime source for lining their pockets, killing jobs and driving industries over seas. Curtail them bigtime.
(5) Bill Clinton Tearing Down Trade Barriers with China and Propelling China into the WTO: Clinton sold us out to China. They have trade barriers against us, but we have none against them. They manipulate their currency and have slave wages for a country that is suppose to be developing and emerging as a world power. We need to take them on and hit them back. They are truly at our mercy. The trade imbalance with them is the largest between two country in world history. A trade war hurts them 10 fold more than it hurts us. You say they hold our debt. True, but it wouldn't be the first time in history a debt total the creditor, we will pay you on our terms! Heck that is what Cinco De Mayo is all about!

(6) Domestic Energy: We are at the mercy of foreigner's for our oil. Many who don't like us. If we decided to drill in CO, ANWR, overshore and Deepsea, we could be off Saudi, Nigeria, Brazil and Venezuela oil in a few years. Getting 75% of our oil domestically and getting the other 25% from our best friends north of the border. In 8 years we could be an oil exporter. Open up natural gas and nuclear! We could be a natural gas user and export!

I know Herman Cain is done, but his 9-9-9 plan, his SMART regulation (and I would support a economic genius and superstar businessman constructing our regulations over a community organizer), short readable regulation stance, his drill baby drill stance and his plan to fight the trade war with China is what would revitalize the American Economy. Removing just the payroll and lowering the Corporate and income tax would create an economic boom. The 9-9-9 pay and SMART regulation, would give an advantage against the 3rd world's slave wage advantage.

Too bad the Cain is done, but that is the sad fact!

Is America Falling into Post-Industrialism? | Economy In Crisis
The following are 19 facts about the deindustrialization of America. These facts will blow your mind....

#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001. About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.

#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest computer manufacturers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.

#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.

#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.

#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.

#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.

#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.

#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.

#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.

#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new "global" manufacturing strategy.

#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.

#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.

#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.

#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th.

#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.

#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.

#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.

#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.

#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.

 

[Dragon]

What is pushing American jobs overseas? The fact that they can obtain labor at 1/10 the cost of NON-UNION American labor.

If a factory employs 2,000 workers, and those workers would cost $12 per hour in the U.S. but cost $1.20 per hour in Bangladesh or China or wherever, the company is saving $44,928,000 per year in labor costs.

Compared to that, taxes are a pittance and the difference between union and non-union labor is irrelevant. So is the question of domestic energy and it's hard to understand why you even included that, other than out of a desire to present a right-wing wish list.

The only cause you described that has any bearing on the loss of manufacturing jobs at all is China's membership in the WTO and the removal of trade barriers. And I'll bet you wouldn't have mentioned that, either, except that you could associate Bill Clinton with it.

 

[GHook93]

What is pushing American jobs overseas? The fact that they can obtain labor at 1/10 the cost of NON-UNION American labor.

That is part of it. Taxation, cost of benefits to employers (aka health insurance), difficult of doing business, corrupt and unbaring Unions, Corporate Taxation loopholes that encourage offshoring, over-regulation instead of smart regulation etc.

Removing a bunch of these barriers, such as taxation (esp the payroll tax), Union power, cost of benefits and make smart regulation vs over-regulation combine that with our current advantage (speed to largest consumer market in the world, shipping costs, educated and HIGHLY efficient work force, political stability and established infrastructure) can well over-come the 3rd world's slave wages.

The only one we will need to be more direct with is China. In addition to slave wages, they steal and resell our intellectual property without recourse, they have trade barriers on our goods and service (WTF!!!) and they manipulate their currency!

It can be done! Take German for example. They have a STRONG manufacturing base, with high paying jobs!

So is the question of domestic energy and it's hard to understand why you even included that, other than out of a desire to present a right-wing wish list.

Why do I include that? First, energy costs are a business cost. Energy cost throughout the 3rd workd is extremely high. Reducing our energy costs increases our advantage on that end.
Second, the energy market produces a lot of HIGH PAYING PRODUCTIVE DOMESTIC JOBS. I am also for that wind project that T Boon Pickets is suggesting.

The only cause you described that has any bearing on the loss of manufacturing jobs at all is China's membership in the WTO and the removal of trade barriers. And I'll bet you wouldn't have mentioned that, either, except that you could associate Bill Clinton with it.

Not true! Clinton couldn't have done it on his own. Although he pushed big for it, it was the cooperation of the Republican (Gingrich control) controlled Congress that allowed it!

I do think Clinton is the worst economic President in US, but I have trouble jumping on the Gingrich boat, but he lead Congress when Clinton was President!

 

[Dragon]

That is part of it. Taxation, cost of benefits to employers (aka health insurance), difficult of doing business, corrupt and unbaring Unions, Corporate Taxation loopholes that encourage offshoring, over-regulation instead of smart regulation etc.

Ah, so now you acknowledge that the cheap labor is "part of it." Interesting that in the OP you didn't even mention that factor, though! And you didn't respond to the argument, which was pointing out that compared to this one factor, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS SIGNIFICANTLY AT ALL. Look at those savings again, please: OVER FORTY-FOUR MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

The ENTIRE tax bill for that factory is peanuts by comparison. The difference between union and non-union labor costs is peanuts by comparison. The entire cost of regulations in the U.S. -- not just the differential between regulations here and those in the target country -- is peanuts by comparison.

What you have done is to present a fictitious list of reasons why we are losing jobs overseas, representing a right-wing wish list of concessions they want from the government, while ignoring the real reason, which is not in the government's power to remedy.

It's a transparent fraud.

It can be done! Take German for example. They have a STRONG manufacturing base, with high paying jobs!

And unions. And a graduated tax system. And environmental protection and strong labor rights. If you want to advocate doing things the way Germany does, I'm for it.

Not true! Clinton couldn't have done it on his own. Although he pushed big for it, it was the cooperation of the Republican (Gingrich control) controlled Congress that allowed it!

Very well. And I agree with you here. Clinton was largely responsible for NAFTA as well. He and Congress enacted these things at the behest of corporations that wanted to take advantage of cheap labor abroad, instead of in the public interest.

However, I don't think it is in our interest to engage in a race to the bottom, either. The example of Germany shows that we don't have to do that.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Compared to that, taxes are a pittance and the difference between union and non-union labor is irrelevant.

Wrong wrong wrong. There are obviously advantages to keeping jobs here. Thats why there are 100 million of them and why we still do 20% of all the worlds manufacturing- about the same as always.

But, at an one time a huge percentage of jobs are on the fence and could go either way based on tiny changes. Therefore taxes and unions are a huge factor! We are less and less competitive because liberals lack the ability to understand these basics.

 

[kiwiman127]

Compared to that, taxes are a pittance and the difference between union and non-union labor is irrelevant.

Wrong wrong wrong. There are obviously advantages to keeping jobs here. Thats why there are 100 million of them and why we still do 20% of all the worlds manufacturing- about the same as always.

But, at an one time a huge percentage of jobs are on the fence and could go either way based on tiny changes. Therefore taxes and unions are a huge factor! We are less and less competitive because liberals lack the ability to understand these basics.

Unions are on the decline as they only make up 7.2% of the private sector workforce and less than 12% of the entire US workforce (private & public).

Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce
Read more: Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce - KansasCity.com

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce

look what they are doing to Boeing, look how they just destroyed American Airlines, look at how they destroyed our auto industry. They hover like a cancer over Americas entire economy, always threatening to metastasize and so always driving jobs overseas.

 

[kiwiman127]

Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce

look what they are doing to Boeing, look how they just destroyed American Airlines, look at how they destroyed our auto industry. They hover like a cancer over Americas entire economy, always threatening to metastasize and so always driving jobs overseas.

Non-union jobs are also going overseas, don't forget that fact.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Non-union jobs are also going overseas, don't forget that fact.

Obviously the more competitive the American wage is the more likely the job is to stay here. Therefore we should make unions illegal again
to remove the cancerous threat they represent. This does not keep all jobs here but it is a huge step in the right direction.

 

[kiwiman127]

Non-union jobs are also going overseas, don't forget that fact.

Obviously the more competitive the American wage is the more likely the job is to stay here. Therefore we should make unions illegal again
to remove the cancerous threat they represent. This does not keep all jobs here but it is a huge step in the right direction.

Competitive wage jobs? You mean who will work for the least amount of money?
Wages have been flat and for the most part not keeping up with inflation for decades.

REAL WAGES
1964-2004
Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers
Year Real $ Change
1964 302.52
1965 310.46 2.62%
1966 312.83 0.76%
1967 311.30 -0.49%
1968 315.37 1.31%
1969 316.93 0.49%
1970 312.94 -1.26%
1971 318.05 1.63%
1972 331.59 4.26%
1973 331.39 -0.06%
1974 314.94 -4.96%
1975 305.16 -3.11%
1976 309.61 1.46%
1977 310.99 0.45%
1978 310.41 -0.19%
1979 298.87 -3.72%
1980 281.27 -5.89%
1981 277.35 -1.39%
1982 272.74 -1.66%
1983 277.50 1.75%
1984 279.22 0.62%
1985 276.23 -1.07%
1986 276.11 -0.04%
1987 272.88 -1.17%
1988 270.32 -0.94%
1989 267.27 -1.13%
1990 262.43 -1.81%
1991 258.34 -1.56%
1992 257.95 -0.15%
1993 258.12 0.07%
1994 259.97 0.72%
1995 258.43 -0.59%
1996 259.58 0.44%
1997 265.22 2.17%
1998 271.87 2.51%
1999 274.64 1.02%
2000 275.62 0.36%
2001 275.38 -0.09%
2002 278.91 1.28%
2003 279.94 0.37%
2004 277.57 -0.84%

Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)

Table A-2. Current and real (constant 1982-1984 dollars) earnings for production and nonsupervisory employees on private nonfarm payrolls, seasonally adjusted for October 2011= $294.43

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

Workers’ share of national income plummets to record low
Workers

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Competitive wage jobs? You mean who will work for the least amount of money?
Wages have been flat and for the most part not keeping up with inflation for decades.

Actually, flat wages are far far better than no wages

If you want higher wages then send 15 million illegals home. That ends the recession tomorrow and puts huge upward pressure on wages.

Also, pass the Balanced Budget Amendment so the Japanese and Chinese have to buy our products rather than our debt. A few sound Republican initiatives like those above would make the economy and wages and employment boom over night. Only liberals oppose these common sense measures.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we cannot have both." -U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis -1916 to 1939.

Do you use this show how absurd liberals are? The poor today have tremendous wealth compared to the poor of 1916. Economic growth is not zero-sum under capitalism. The top and bottom both gain huge new wealth.

 

[chikenwing]

Compared to that, taxes are a pittance and the difference between union and non-union labor is irrelevant.

Wrong wrong wrong. There are obviously advantages to keeping jobs here. Thats why there are 100 million of them and why we still do 20% of all the worlds manufacturing- about the same as always.

But, at an one time a huge percentage of jobs are on the fence and could go either way based on tiny changes. Therefore taxes and unions are a huge factor! We are less and less competitive because liberals lack the ability to understand these basics.

Unions are on the decline as they only make up 7.2% of the private sector workforce and less than 12% of the entire US workforce (private & public).

Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce
Read more: Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce - KansasCity.com

Small % but with big implications,just look at what is breaking the backs of a lot of country and state budgets, pensions and health care for public employees.

The big picture is effected by many factors,the fence example is spot on,a lttle out of balance you still fall all the wat to the ground.

 

[kiwiman127]

OK, We've seen the standard anti-union talking points. We see the unions in decline.
Interestingly, as the unions have declined in power and membership, we have also seen the demise of of wage growth. With the demise of wage growth, we have seen the demise of the middle class. With the demise of the middle class we have seen a fragile recovery.
But as one poster stated, "flat wages are far far better than no wages" and "The poor today have tremendous wealth compared to the poor of 1916"." Two statements in favor of the status quo which is failing our country.
Finally we get this; "Economic growth is not zero-sum under capitalism. The top and bottom both gain huge new wealth."
My answer?

 

[DaGoose]

Compared to that, taxes are a pittance and the difference between union and non-union labor is irrelevant.

Wrong wrong wrong. There are obviously advantages to keeping jobs here. Thats why there are 100 million of them and why we still do 20% of all the worlds manufacturing- about the same as always.

But, at an one time a huge percentage of jobs are on the fence and could go either way based on tiny changes. Therefore taxes and unions are a huge factor! We are less and less competitive because liberals lack the ability to understand these basics.

As far as taxes go......It was shown in post #2 that taxes are not as big of factor as you try to make out.

As far as unions go......They can't be that big of a factor since they represent a small segment of the population.

Why don't you come out and say it and stop pussy footing around? In order to be competitive we must lower our wages and standard of living in order to that of say....Mexico. That's what the conservatives are really saying.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In order to be competitive we must lower our wages and standard of living in order to that of say....Mexico. That's what the conservatives are really saying.

Wrong wrong wrong!! We are very competitive now. That's why we are the richest country in human history. To keep the lead in the face of growing global competition we can do a number of obvious things like make liberal unions illegal and send 15 million liberal illegals home. That would create millions of new jobs and a ton of pressure for higher wages.

Additionally, we could pass the Republican Balanced Budget Amendment so China and Japan would have to buy our goods and services ( creating jobs) rather than our liberal debt.

 

[DaGoose]

In order to be competitive we must lower our wages and standard of living in order to that of say....Mexico. That's what the conservatives are really saying.

Wrong wrong wrong!! We are very competitive now. That's why we are the richest country in human history. To keep the lead in the face of growing civilization we can do a number of obvious things like make liberal unions illegal and send 15 million liberal illegals home. That would create millions of new jobs and a ton of pressure for higher wages.

Additionally, we could pass the Republican Balanced Budget Amendment so China and Japan would have to buy our goods and services ( creating jobs) rather than our liberal debt.

Silly me. And I was thinking that it was because of American ingenuity and the fact that we have the best workforce in the world. Thanks for straightening me out.

Make unions illegal? The biggest reason why we have a middle class?

 

[kiwiman127]

What is pushing America's manufacturing jobs overseas?
(1) Corporate Tax: 35% corporate tax (which regardless of popular misconception many companies pay) + State corporate tax. Put those togther they are the largest in the world. These taxes DRIVE up the price of goods big time
(2) Payroll Tax:The payroll tax, both the employer and employee pay it. It's a small business killer. It increases prices 10 fold and is a HUGE incentive to move overseas. These taxes drive up the price of goods big time.
(3) Over-regulation: Under-regulation isn't the answer. Rather smart regulation is the best answer. No more 1000-2000 page laws that no one understands, have parts that contradict each, have parts that don't have anything to do with the main point of the law, ones Congressman can't read before signing and ones that are so over-board it great meaningless regulations. Legislation used to be 10-20 pages. GO BACK TO THAT! If it legislation needs to be greater than 20 pages there must be a damn good reason or should be in two separate bills! Over-regulation drives up the cost of good big time.
(4) Unions (Esp. the Public Sector ones): Union corruption and billigerence. Unions don't protect the worker anymore, nor do they create jobs. Rather they are a prime source for lining their pockets, killing jobs and driving industries over seas. Curtail them bigtime.
(5) Bill Clinton Tearing Down Trade Barriers with China and Propelling China into the WTO: Clinton sold us out to China. They have trade barriers against us, but we have none against them. They manipulate their currency and have slave wages for a country that is suppose to be developing and emerging as a world power. We need to take them on and hit them back. They are truly at our mercy. The trade imbalance with them is the largest between two country in world history. A trade war hurts them 10 fold more than it hurts us. You say they hold our debt. True, but it wouldn't be the first time in history a debt total the creditor, we will pay you on our terms! Heck that is what Cinco De Mayo is all about!

(6) Domestic Energy: We are at the mercy of foreigner's for our oil. Many who don't like us. If we decided to drill in CO, ANWR, overshore and Deepsea, we could be off Saudi, Nigeria, Brazil and Venezuela oil in a few years. Getting 75% of our oil domestically and getting the other 25% from our best friends north of the border. In 8 years we could be an oil exporter. Open up natural gas and nuclear! We could be a natural gas user and export!

I know Herman Cain is done, but his 9-9-9 plan, his SMART regulation (and I would support a economic genius and superstar businessman constructing our regulations over a community organizer), short readable regulation stance, his drill baby drill stance and his plan to fight the trade war with China is what would revitalize the American Economy. Removing just the payroll and lowering the Corporate and income tax would create an economic boom. The 9-9-9 pay and SMART regulation, would give an advantage against the 3rd world's slave wage advantage.

Too bad the Cain is done, but that is the sad fact!

Is America Falling into Post-Industrialism? | Economy In Crisis
The following are 19 facts about the deindustrialization of America. These facts will blow your mind....

#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001. About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.

#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest computer manufacturers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.

#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.

#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.

#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.

#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.

#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.

#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.

#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.

#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new "global" manufacturing strategy.

#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.

#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.

#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.

#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th.

#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.

#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.

#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.

#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.

#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.

"35% corporate tax (which regardless of popular misconception many companies pay"

Really?

The statutory federal income tax rate for big American companies is 35%. But a study by the Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, two Washington, DC-based think-tanks, has assessed the tax records of 280 companies from the Fortune 500 list with reliable pre-tax profit reports. Among these companies the average effective tax rate between 2008-10 was only 18.5%. While 71 companies paid over 30% of their profits in federal income tax, 30 enjoyed negative tax rates over the whole three year period. Pepco, an electricity company, had the lowest effective tax rate of -57.6%. Wells Fargo, a bank, received the biggest tax subsidy over the three years of almost $18 billion, and was one of 25 companies which took more than half of the total $223 billion subsidy claimed. In at least one of the three years, 78 firms paid no or negative tax rates, and legally-by writing off capital investments before they actually wear out (known as "accelerated depreciation"), making use of tax deductible stock options and industry-specific tax breaks, and offshore tax havens.
Focus: US corporate tax | The Economist

Most Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax
Most Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax - CBS News

I guess that explans these graphs!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Silly me. And I was thinking that it was because of American ingenuity and the fact that we have the best workforce in the world. Thanks for straightening me out.

If I disagreed I'll pay you $10,000 Bet??

Make unions illegal? The biggest reason why we have a middle class?

1) wrong wrong wrong. Business must pay the highest wage possible or lose their best workers to those who will pay the highest wage possible. Top management and entry level get highest wage possible because of competition, not unions. A wage is a price like any other and is determined by competition. Sorry!

2) unions didn't create the middle class but rather drove their jobs to foreign countrys. As we speak they are doing it with Boeing.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. Among these companies the average effective tax rate between 2008-10 was only 18.5%.

Actually corporate tax rate is 0 %. A liberal business tax is a cost like any other cost and so is passed on to customers. Business does not pay taxes it collects them. Please repeat that 100 times. We have business taxes only because liberals pander to the pure ignorance of liberal voters who have been brainwashed to opppose business.

Nevertheless, business taxes should be eliminated so business will concentrate on business rather than on dodging taxes