19 Facts On the Deindustrialization of America

Discussion in 'Economy' started by GHook93, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. GHook93
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    GHook93 Aristotle

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    What is pushing America's manufacturing jobs overseas?
    (1) Corporate Tax: 35% corporate tax (which regardless of popular misconception many companies pay) + State corporate tax. Put those togther they are the largest in the world. These taxes DRIVE up the price of goods big time
    (2) Payroll Tax:The payroll tax, both the employer and employee pay it. It's a small business killer. It increases prices 10 fold and is a HUGE incentive to move overseas. These taxes drive up the price of goods big time.
    (3) Over-regulation: Under-regulation isn't the answer. Rather smart regulation is the best answer. No more 1000-2000 page laws that no one understands, have parts that contradict each, have parts that don't have anything to do with the main point of the law, ones Congressman can't read before signing and ones that are so over-board it great meaningless regulations. Legislation used to be 10-20 pages. GO BACK TO THAT! If it legislation needs to be greater than 20 pages there must be a damn good reason or should be in two separate bills! Over-regulation drives up the cost of good big time.
    (4) Unions (Esp. the Public Sector ones): Union corruption and billigerence. Unions don't protect the worker anymore, nor do they create jobs. Rather they are a prime source for lining their pockets, killing jobs and driving industries over seas. Curtail them bigtime.
    (5) Bill Clinton Tearing Down Trade Barriers with China and Propelling China into the WTO: Clinton sold us out to China. They have trade barriers against us, but we have none against them. They manipulate their currency and have slave wages for a country that is suppose to be developing and emerging as a world power. We need to take them on and hit them back. They are truly at our mercy. The trade imbalance with them is the largest between two country in world history. A trade war hurts them 10 fold more than it hurts us. You say they hold our debt. True, but it wouldn't be the first time in history a debt total the creditor, we will pay you on our terms! Heck that is what Cinco De Mayo is all about!

    (6) Domestic Energy: We are at the mercy of foreigner's for our oil. Many who don't like us. If we decided to drill in CO, ANWR, overshore and Deepsea, we could be off Saudi, Nigeria, Brazil and Venezuela oil in a few years. Getting 75% of our oil domestically and getting the other 25% from our best friends north of the border. In 8 years we could be an oil exporter. Open up natural gas and nuclear! We could be a natural gas user and export!

    I know Herman Cain is done, but his 9-9-9 plan, his SMART regulation (and I would support a economic genius and superstar businessman constructing our regulations over a community organizer), short readable regulation stance, his drill baby drill stance and his plan to fight the trade war with China is what would revitalize the American Economy. Removing just the payroll and lowering the Corporate and income tax would create an economic boom. The 9-9-9 pay and SMART regulation, would give an advantage against the 3rd world's slave wage advantage.

    Too bad the Cain is done, but that is the sad fact!

     
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  2. Dragon
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    Dragon Senior Member

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    What is pushing American jobs overseas? The fact that they can obtain labor at 1/10 the cost of NON-UNION American labor.

    If a factory employs 2,000 workers, and those workers would cost $12 per hour in the U.S. but cost $1.20 per hour in Bangladesh or China or wherever, the company is saving $44,928,000 per year in labor costs.

    Compared to that, taxes are a pittance and the difference between union and non-union labor is irrelevant. So is the question of domestic energy and it's hard to understand why you even included that, other than out of a desire to present a right-wing wish list.

    The only cause you described that has any bearing on the loss of manufacturing jobs at all is China's membership in the WTO and the removal of trade barriers. And I'll bet you wouldn't have mentioned that, either, except that you could associate Bill Clinton with it.
     
  3. GHook93
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    GHook93 Aristotle

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    That is part of it. Taxation, cost of benefits to employers (aka health insurance), difficult of doing business, corrupt and unbaring Unions, Corporate Taxation loopholes that encourage offshoring, over-regulation instead of smart regulation etc.

    Removing a bunch of these barriers, such as taxation (esp the payroll tax), Union power, cost of benefits and make smart regulation vs over-regulation combine that with our current advantage (speed to largest consumer market in the world, shipping costs, educated and HIGHLY efficient work force, political stability and established infrastructure) can well over-come the 3rd world's slave wages.

    The only one we will need to be more direct with is China. In addition to slave wages, they steal and resell our intellectual property without recourse, they have trade barriers on our goods and service (WTF!!!) and they manipulate their currency!

    It can be done! Take German for example. They have a STRONG manufacturing base, with high paying jobs!


    Why do I include that? First, energy costs are a business cost. Energy cost throughout the 3rd workd is extremely high. Reducing our energy costs increases our advantage on that end.
    Second, the energy market produces a lot of HIGH PAYING PRODUCTIVE DOMESTIC JOBS. I am also for that wind project that T Boon Pickets is suggesting.

    Not true! Clinton couldn't have done it on his own. Although he pushed big for it, it was the cooperation of the Republican (Gingrich control) controlled Congress that allowed it!

    I do think Clinton is the worst economic President in US, but I have trouble jumping on the Gingrich boat, but he lead Congress when Clinton was President!
     
  4. Dragon
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    Dragon Senior Member

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    Ah, so now you acknowledge that the cheap labor is "part of it." Interesting that in the OP you didn't even mention that factor, though! And you didn't respond to the argument, which was pointing out that compared to this one factor, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS SIGNIFICANTLY AT ALL. Look at those savings again, please: OVER FORTY-FOUR MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

    The ENTIRE tax bill for that factory is peanuts by comparison. The difference between union and non-union labor costs is peanuts by comparison. The entire cost of regulations in the U.S. -- not just the differential between regulations here and those in the target country -- is peanuts by comparison.

    What you have done is to present a fictitious list of reasons why we are losing jobs overseas, representing a right-wing wish list of concessions they want from the government, while ignoring the real reason, which is not in the government's power to remedy.

    It's a transparent fraud.

    And unions. And a graduated tax system. And environmental protection and strong labor rights. If you want to advocate doing things the way Germany does, I'm for it.

    Very well. And I agree with you here. Clinton was largely responsible for NAFTA as well. He and Congress enacted these things at the behest of corporations that wanted to take advantage of cheap labor abroad, instead of in the public interest.

    However, I don't think it is in our interest to engage in a race to the bottom, either. The example of Germany shows that we don't have to do that.
     
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  5. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    Wrong wrong wrong. There are obviously advantages to keeping jobs here. Thats why there are 100 million of them and why we still do 20% of all the worlds manufacturing- about the same as always.

    But, at an one time a huge percentage of jobs are on the fence and could go either way based on tiny changes. Therefore taxes and unions are a huge factor! We are less and less competitive because liberals lack the ability to understand these basics.
     
  6. kiwiman127
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    kiwiman127 Comfortably Moderate Supporting Member

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    Unions are on the decline as they only make up 7.2% of the private sector workforce and less than 12% of the entire US workforce (private & public).

    Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce
    Read more: Union membership falls below 12 percent of workforce - KansasCity.com
     
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  7. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    look what they are doing to Boeing, look how they just destroyed American Airlines, look at how they destroyed our auto industry. They hover like a cancer over Americas entire economy, always threatening to metastasize and so always driving jobs overseas.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  8. kiwiman127
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    kiwiman127 Comfortably Moderate Supporting Member

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    Non-union jobs are also going overseas, don't forget that fact.
     
  9. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    Obviously the more competitive the American wage is the more likely the job is to stay here. Therefore we should make unions illegal again
    to remove the cancerous threat they represent. This does not keep all jobs here but it is a huge step in the right direction.
     
  10. kiwiman127
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    Competitive wage jobs? You mean who will work for the least amount of money?
    Wages have been flat and for the most part not keeping up with inflation for decades.

    REAL WAGES
    1964-2004
    Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
    For all private nonfarm workers
    Year Real $ Change
    1964 302.52
    1965 310.46 2.62%
    1966 312.83 0.76%
    1967 311.30 -0.49%
    1968 315.37 1.31%
    1969 316.93 0.49%
    1970 312.94 -1.26%
    1971 318.05 1.63%
    1972 331.59 4.26%
    1973 331.39 -0.06%
    1974 314.94 -4.96%
    1975 305.16 -3.11%
    1976 309.61 1.46%
    1977 310.99 0.45%
    1978 310.41 -0.19%
    1979 298.87 -3.72%
    1980 281.27 -5.89%
    1981 277.35 -1.39%
    1982 272.74 -1.66%
    1983 277.50 1.75%
    1984 279.22 0.62%
    1985 276.23 -1.07%
    1986 276.11 -0.04%
    1987 272.88 -1.17%
    1988 270.32 -0.94%
    1989 267.27 -1.13%
    1990 262.43 -1.81%
    1991 258.34 -1.56%
    1992 257.95 -0.15%
    1993 258.12 0.07%
    1994 259.97 0.72%
    1995 258.43 -0.59%
    1996 259.58 0.44%
    1997 265.22 2.17%
    1998 271.87 2.51%
    1999 274.64 1.02%
    2000 275.62 0.36%
    2001 275.38 -0.09%
    2002 278.91 1.28%
    2003 279.94 0.37%
    2004 277.57 -0.84%

    Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
    http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)

    Table A-2. Current and real (constant 1982-1984 dollars) earnings for production and nonsupervisory employees on private nonfarm payrolls, seasonally adjusted for October 2011= $294.43

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

    Workers’ share of national income plummets to record low
    Workers
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011

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