2000 mules continues to do real damage.

[dblack]

Sufficient admissable evidence to win election fraud cases in court is hard to come by, but that does not mean that the 2000 Mules movie was wrong in it's conclusions. The burden of proof lies with the accusers of fraud, but the absence of sufficient evidence to prove fraud does not mean no fraud existed. Nor does it mean the election results were therefore accurate.

That's the whole point of "burden of proof". It means if you can't prove your claims, there's no reason anyone should take them seriously. I could claim there's a city of aliens on the dark side of the moon. According to you, the absence of proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But why should anyone believe me that it does?

Ultimately, this is just a matter of faith. Trump supporters want to believe the election was stolen, so they will. And they'll cling to anything or anyone who validates their beliefs, regardless of evidence.

 

[rightwinger]

And you know this how?

No ballots can be found to be invalid once they are separated from their envelopes. By the time the election auditors got there, all the evidence had been destroyed and there was no way to know whether most of the ballots were legitimate or not. The Democrats did an excellent job of rigging the process to make any serious verification virtually impossible.

It is kind of like this Sweetie…

The claim is that “mules” are dropping fake ballots into Drop Boxes and stealing elections.

EVERY ballot in a Crop Box is bar coded to a specific registered voter.
Fake ballots would not link to a registered voter or would be a duplicate of someone who had already voted.

 

[task0778]

Well in court, the movies producers went to jail because they didn't reveal their sources. What does that tell ya?

Actually, the source not named was an FBI informant, who according to the producers could not legally be named. Getting people to roll over on the democrats these days is a risky business for those in or near the gov't. If you screw with the dems they will screw you back and with interest. In fact, you don't even have to screw with them, all you gotta do is fail to adhere to the party line.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is kind of like this Sweetie…

The claim is that “mules” are dropping fake ballots into Drop Boxes and stealing elections.

EVERY ballot in a Crop Box is bar coded to a specific registered voter.
Fake ballots would not link to a registered voter or would be a duplicate of someone who had already voted.

Maybe that's true where you live. It is not true where I live.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's the whole point of "burden of proof". It means if you can't prove your claims, there's no reason anyone should take them seriously. I could claim there's a city of aliens on the dark side of the moon. According to you, the absence of proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But why should anyone believe me that it does?

Ultimately, this is just a matter of faith. Trump supporters want to believe the election was stolen, so they will. And they'll cling to anything or anyone who validates their beliefs, regardless of evidence.

I myself watched one person put at least three dozen envelopes into a drop box here in Albuquerque. He or she (wearing a hoodie so I couldn't tell) took rubber bands off several bundles and dropped them into the box. The drop boxes were all supposed to be under surveillance but I looked everywhere there was to look for a camera and couldn't find one. Also, having worked the polls, I can say unequivocally that I have witnessed voter fraud.

People are more than willing to believe women who have accused Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump et al when there was no evidence of any kind to show. The claimed eye witness testimony of innumerable witnesses is accepted in courtrooms across the land even though there is no physical evidence to show. When hundreds/thousands of people across the country say they witnessed serious anomalies in the 2020 election though, they are dismissed as liars who have no proof.

At the very least, people are not unreasonable to have doubts about the veracity of that election and according to recent polls, more than half the country does believe that and also think it will happen again in 2024. Enough to make a difference in the outcome of an election. There is no way to know.

Voters Worry About Election Cheating, Donât Trust Mail-In Voting

Most voters believe cheating may have influenced this year’s elections, and think voting by mail makes it easier to cheat.

www.rasmussenreports.com

One-in-Five Mail-In Voters Admit They Cheated in 2020 Election

More than 20% of voters who used mail-in ballots in 2020 admit they participated in at least one form of election fraud.

www.rasmussenreports.com

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/03/28/new_peer-reviewed_research_finds_evidence_of_2020_voter_fraud_147378.html#!

So whether the election was stolen or not, and there is no way to conclusively determine that now, any honorable American should want the voter registration and voting processes to be as tamper proof as possible. Those who don't want that? I'm pretty sure they would cheat if they can.

 

[dblack]

I myself watched one person put at least three dozen envelopes into a drop box here in Albuquerque. He or she (wearing a hoodie so I couldn't tell) took rubber bands off several bundles and dropped them into the box. The drop boxes were all supposed to be under surveillance but I looked everywhere there was to look for a camera and couldn't find one. Also, having worked the polls, I can say unequivocally that I have witnessed voter fraud.

People are more than willing to believe women who have accused Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump et al when there was no evidence of any kind to show. The claimed eye witness testimony of innumerable witnesses is accepted in courtrooms across the land even though there is no physical evidence to show. When hundreds/thousands of people across the country say they witnessed serious anomalies in the 2020 election though, they are dismissed as liars who have no proof.

At the very least, people are not unreasonable to have doubts about the veracity of that election and according to recent polls, more than half the country does believe that and also think it will happen again in 2024. Enough to make a difference in the outcome of an election. There is no way to know.

Voters Worry About Election Cheating, Donât Trust Mail-In Voting

Most voters believe cheating may have influenced this year’s elections, and think voting by mail makes it easier to cheat.

www.rasmussenreports.com

One-in-Five Mail-In Voters Admit They Cheated in 2020 Election

More than 20% of voters who used mail-in ballots in 2020 admit they participated in at least one form of election fraud.

www.rasmussenreports.com

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/03/28/new_peer-reviewed_research_finds_evidence_of_2020_voter_fraud_147378.html#!

So whether the election was stolen or not, and there is no way to conclusively determine that now, any honorable American should want the voter registration and voting processes to be as tamper proof as possible. Those who don't want that? I'm pretty sure they would cheat if they can.

tl;dr

Bottom line, I raised two boys. I know the "they cheated" excuse forward and backward. I recognized it from Trump, even before the election.

Our election processes are a mess, no doubt. But that has nothing, at all, to do with the state of denial among Trump and his supporters.

The interesting bit is that we're going to see exactly the same thing from Democrats, after Biden loses this fall.

It'll be a fucking shitshow regardless.

 

[Foxfyre]

tl;dr

Bottom line, I raised two boys. I know the "they cheated" excuse forward and backward. I recognized it from Trump, even before the election.

Our election processes are a mess, no doubt. But that has nothing, at all, to do with the state of denial among Trump and his supporters.

The interesting bit is that we're going to see exactly the same thing from Democrats, after Biden loses this fall.

It'll be a fucking shitshow regardless.

Meaning you completely ignored the argument I made. That's cool. I've come to expect it. Do have a pleasant evening.

 

[dblack]

Meaning you completely ignored the argument I made. That's cool. I've come to expect it. Do have a pleasant evening.

I did. It's just grown tiresome. Sorry, but you know, "boy who cried wolf" and all that.

 

[task0778]

That's the whole point of "burden of proof". It means if you can't prove your claims, there's no reason anyone should take them seriously.

I think election integrity is important enough to take very seriously. Just ecause claims were made that were not proven in court does not mean the claims were bogus.

Ultimately, this is just a matter of faith. Trump supporters want to believe the election was stolen, so they will. And they'll cling to anything or anyone who validates their beliefs, regardless of evidence.

The exact same thing can be said of Trump haters, doncha think?


IMHO, there are a fair number of people who are in neither group. Like me, they are fairly convinced that some election fraud did occur, but whether it was enough to change the outcome is debatable. Obviously.

 

[dblack]

I think election integrity is important enough to take very seriously. Just ecause claims were made that were not proven in court does not mean the claims were bogus.

mkay

The exact same thing can be said of Trump haters, doncha think?

No. I hate him based on things we'd probably agree on as fact. Not unproven claims.

IMHO, there are a fair number of people who are in neither group. Like me, they are fairly convinced that some election fraud did occur, but whether it was enough to change the outcome is debatable. Obviously.

Sure there's fraud. Out of umpteen million votes, it's a certainty. Every. single. losing candidate for president for the last two hundred years could have spun up the fraud excuse. But they didn't. Because they cared more about their country than their ego.

I'm all in favor of improving election security. I'm not in favor of indulging childish excuse making.

 

[Foxfyre]

I did. It's just grown tiresome. Sorry, but you know, "boy who cried wolf" and all that.

And completely missed the point I made. Again have a pleasant evening.

 

[citygator]

I myself watched one person put at least three dozen envelopes into a drop box here in Albuquerque. He or she (wearing a hoodie so I couldn't tell) took rubber bands off several bundles and dropped them into the box. The drop boxes were all supposed to be under surveillance but I looked everywhere there was to look for a camera and couldn't find one. Also, having worked the polls, I can say unequivocally that I have witnessed voter fraud.

People are more than willing to believe women who have accused Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump et al when there was no evidence of any kind to show. The claimed eye witness testimony of innumerable witnesses is accepted in courtrooms across the land even though there is no physical evidence to show. When hundreds/thousands of people across the country say they witnessed serious anomalies in the 2020 election though, they are dismissed as liars who have no proof.

At the very least, people are not unreasonable to have doubts about the veracity of that election and according to recent polls, more than half the country does believe that and also think it will happen again in 2024. Enough to make a difference in the outcome of an election. There is no way to know.

Voters Worry About Election Cheating, Donât Trust Mail-In Voting

Most voters believe cheating may have influenced this year’s elections, and think voting by mail makes it easier to cheat.

www.rasmussenreports.com

One-in-Five Mail-In Voters Admit They Cheated in 2020 Election

More than 20% of voters who used mail-in ballots in 2020 admit they participated in at least one form of election fraud.

www.rasmussenreports.com

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/03/28/new_peer-reviewed_research_finds_evidence_of_2020_voter_fraud_147378.html#!

So whether the election was stolen or not, and there is no way to conclusively determine that now, any honorable American should want the voter registration and voting processes to be as tamper proof as possible. Those who don't want that? I'm pretty sure they would cheat if they can.

No you didn’t.

 

[dblack]

And completely missed the point I made. Again have a pleasant evening.

I will.

 

[westwall]

mkay

No. I hate him based on things we'd probably agree on as fact. Not unproven claims.

Sure there's fraud. Out of umpteen million votes, it's a certainty. Every. single. losing candidate for president for the last two hundred years could have spun up the fraud excuse. But they didn't. Because they cared more about their country than their ego.

I'm all in favor of improving election security. I'm not in favor of indulging childish excuse making.

Your cavalier attitude about election integrity speaks volumes about you.

None of it good.

 

[westwall]

And completely missed the point I made. Again have a pleasant evening.

He's a dishonest hack.

To the ignore pile with it.

Remember, don't feed the trolls.

 

[Foxfyre]

He's a dishonest hack.

To the ignore pile with it.

Remember, don't feed the trolls.

I know, I know. But note the line under my screen name "eternal optimist." I keep hoping that we can somehow cut through the TDS and restore some common sense to the dialogue at least with people who used to have common sense. But yeah. . .you're right.

 

[dblack]

Your cavalier attitude about election integrity speaks volumes about you.

I have the utmost concern for election integrity. I'm just not buying all the excuse making. It's denial, classic, psychological denial.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

That's the whole point of "burden of proof". It means if you can't prove your claims, there's no reason anyone should take them seriously. I could claim there's a city of aliens on the dark side of the moon. According to you, the absence of proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But why should anyone believe me that it does?

Ultimately, this is just a matter of faith. Trump supporters want to believe the election was stolen, so they will. And they'll cling to anything or anyone who validates their beliefs, regardless of evidence.

They're a cult.

 

[Oddball]

 

[dblack]

They're a cult.

They're in denial.

And I'm betting we'll see Dems doing the same thing when Trump is re-elected. The partisans have themselves so whacked out on hysterical fear that they literally can't accept the idea of their "evil enemy" winning.