Zone1 Was Einstein Generally a Pacifist?

[Seymour Flops]

Niel DeGrasse Tyson says he was:



No.

If you push for the development of nuclear bombs, with the full intent to use them, that's not a pacifist. If you want nuclear, or any other kind of weapons for the sake of deterrance, you are not a pacifist.

I read somewhere that some of the Jewish scientist working on the bomb assumed it would stop when Germany surrendered, since they had not intended it for Japan.

There's no such thing as "generally a pacifist." You are either willing to endure anything, any amount of harm, subjegation or humiliation, to yourself, your country, and/or your loved ones, and still refuse to go to war, or even one-on-one unarmed combat, in which case you are a pacifist, or there is some point at which you would fight back, in which case you are not a pacifist.

Prove me wrong?

 

[toobfreak]

Was Einstein Generally a Pacifist?​

Is that even a question? He was horrified by the use of his theories in order to support war and nuclear weapons, and got on Hitler's shit list (the top of the list) for being one of only three scientists in Germany to publicly speak out against war.

Sadly, Einstein spent the better part of his adult life engulfed in war and obstructed by its intervention, both WWI and WWII.

If you don't know that, you know nothing of Einstein.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Is that even a question? He was horrified by the use of his theories in order to support war and nuclear weapons, and got on Hitler's shit list (the top of the list) for being one of only three scientists in Germany to publicly speak out against war.

Sadly, Einstein spent the better part of his adult life engulfed in war and obstructed by its intervention, both WWI and WWII.

If you don't know that, you know nothing of Einstein.

Yes, it is a question.

How can a man be a pacifist, and at the same time encourage building the most destructive weapon in human history, designed for no other purpose than to wipe you a city-sized population in minutes?

 

[Seymour Flops]

It's a question, toobfreak. You don't disagree with a question. You either can answer it or you cannot.

 

[toobfreak]

Yes, it is a question.

How can a man be a pacifist, and at the same time encourage building the most destructive weapon in human history, designed for no other purpose than to wipe you a city-sized population in minutes?

You're an idiot. You don't know the first thing of which you speak. Einstein had nothing to do with the development of the A-bomb, other people seeing what his equation implied, did, and Einstein was 110% against it.

In fact, he did not even think it possible. It was not until a friend came to him pointing out that cascade neutron bombardment not alpha decay could lead to the chain reaction, did Einstein realize the possibility.

It was not until much later with the urging of the same person did he reluctantly write a letter to Truman urging we act before the German Nazis had a chance of creating the bomb to take over the world.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You're an idiot.

You're an overgrown child.

You don't know the first thing of which you speak. Einstein had nothing to do with the development of the A-bomb, other people seeing what his equation implied, did, and Einstein was 110% against it.

I'll take Niel DeGrasse Tyson's word over an overgrown child on the internet.

In fact, he did not even think it possible. It was not until a friend came to him pointing out that cascade neutron bombardment not alpha decay could lead to the chain reaction, did Einstein realize the possibility.

How does that change what i said? One last chance to participate in an adult discussion:

It was not until much later with the urging of the same person did he reluctantly write a letter to Truman urging we act before the German Nazis had a chance of creating the bomb to take over the world.

What did he urge Truman to do?

 

[Ace Nova]

Although I do not know much about Einstein's beliefs - what I do know is that in the case of nuclear science - he was a "realist", He knew that in theory nuclear power could likely be developed. He did what he could to make sure that "the non aggressive" nations of WWII would be the first ones to develop it vs the "aggressive" nations of WWII.

So in a sense - Einstein's thinking was on a "higher level" so to speak. As a scientist he knew that nuclear technology was very close to being developed. And morally, he did what he could to make sure the allies would get it instead of the axis powers. .

 

[Seymour Flops]

Although I do not know much about Einstein's beliefs - what I do know is that in the case of nuclear science - he was a "realist", He knew that in theory nuclear power could likely be developed. He did what he could to make sure that "the non aggressive" nations of WWII would be the first ones to develop it vs the "aggressive" nations of WWII.

So in a sense - Einstein's thinking was on a "higher level" so to speak. As a scientist he knew that nuclear technology was very close to being developed. And morally, he did what he could to make sure the allies would get it instead of the axis powers. .

I like the way you put that. Pacifism is very much lower level thinking, as absolutist thinking nearly always is.

 

[Votto]

I like the way you put that. Pacifism is very much lower level thinking, as absolutist thinking nearly always is.

A better question would be, who cares what Einstein thought on the issue?

I guess it is the premise that he is smart, so his opinon matters more I reckon.

But what I have found is, people gifted in one area have glaring flaws in other areas

For example, I heard the Einstein got C's in college and walked around with his hair a mess and often failed to even tie his shoes correctly.

 

[Sayaras]

Niel DeGrasse Tyson says he was:



No.

If you push for the development of nuclear bombs, with the full intent to use them, that's not a pacifist. If you want nuclear, or any other kind of weapons for the sake of deterrance, you are not a pacifist.

I read somewhere that some of the Jewish scientist working on the bomb assumed it would stop when Germany surrendered, since they had not intended it for Japan.

There's no such thing as "generally a pacifist." You are either willing to endure anything, any amount of harm, subjegation or humiliation, to yourself, your country, and/or your loved ones, and still refuse to go to war, or even one-on-one unarmed combat, in which case you are a pacifist, or there is some point at which you would fight back, in which case you are not a pacifist.

Prove me wrong?

Yes he was a zionist pacifist

 

[Seymour Flops]

Although I do not know much about Einstein's beliefs - what I do know is that in the case of nuclear science - he was a "realist", He knew that in theory nuclear power could likely be developed. He did what he could to make sure that "the non aggressive" nations of WWII would be the first ones to develop it vs the "aggressive" nations of WWII.

So in a sense - Einstein's thinking was on a "higher level" so to speak. As a scientist he knew that nuclear technology was very close to being developed. And morally, he did what he could to make sure the allies would get it instead of the axis powers. .

Yes, Einstein did whatever he could to help the allies win. Just like Eisenhower, Montgomery, and DeGual. None of those four were pacifists.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Yes he was a zionist pacifist

How was he a pacifist?

 

[Sayaras]

How was he a pacifist?

Albert Einstein: Scientist, Pacifist, Zionist
Mar 17, 2015 — Einstein thought that Palestine should be a multi-cultural nation which could serve as a safe space for Jews in danger to flee

 

[Seymour Flops]

Albert Einstein: Scientist, Pacifist, Zionist
Mar 17, 2015 — Einstein thought that Palestine should be a multi-cultural nation which could serve as a safe space for Jews in danger to flee

He was the father of the atom bomb.

 

[toobfreak]

I'll take Niel DeGrasse Tyson's word

Too bad you can't even spell the guy's name yet somehow think you able to discuss Einstein's life and theories.

 

[Ace Nova]

Yes, Einstein did whatever he could to help the allies win. Just like Eisenhower, Montgomery, and DeGual. None of those four were pacifists.

Einstein was a scientist - widely regarded as the best or among the best in all of history as we know it.

The others you mentioned were military leaders and leaders of nations. It is an apples & oranges comparison.

Even so - the others you mentioned were not the aggressors in WWII. They were defending their nations against a hostile aggressor. That - in itself - would not discount them as preferring diplomacy (pacifism) over war. As a matter of fact, many of the best leaders and military leaders of the world are among the first to advocate diplomacy because they understand what the horrors of war can bring.

As far as Einstein is concerned - he was a brilliant person - he understood the horrors Nazi Germany could bring to the world if they developed atomic energy and an atomic bomb, Not only did he deflect to the United States - he took the most brilliant scientists from that time period with him. He went above and beyond any expectations - that in itself would lean towards pacifism in the sense that he prevented the aggressors from essentially taking over the world and likely prevented millions of casualties as a result.

Did Einstein make the right decision? The Atomic Bomb was used a total of two times in WWII and has not been used in the 80+ years since then.

What would have Nazi Germany done when they were losing on two fronts, taking on hundreds of thousands of casualties, during the end of WWII had they had the Atomic Bomb?

 

[toobfreak]

Einstein was a scientist - widely regarded as the best or among the best in all of history as we know it.

The others you mentioned were military leaders and leaders of nations. It is an apples & oranges comparison.

Even so - the others you mentioned were not the aggressors in WWII. They were defending their nations against a hostile aggressor. That - in itself - would not discount them as preferring diplomacy (pacifism) over war. As a matter of fact, many of the best leaders and military leaders of the world are among the first to advocate diplomacy because they understand what the horrors of war can bring.

As far as Einstein is concerned - he was a brilliant person - he understood the horrors Nazi Germany could bring to the world if they developed atomic energy and an atomic bomb, Not only did he deflect to the United States - he took the most brilliant scientists from that time period with him. He went above and beyond any expectations - that in itself would lean towards pacifism in the sense that he prevented the aggressors from essentially taking over the world and likely prevented millions of casualties as a result.

Did Einstein make the right decision? The Atomic Bomb was used a total of two times in WWII and has not been used in the 80+ years since then.

What would have Nazi Germany done when they were losing on two fronts, taking on hundreds of thousands of casualties, during the end of WWII had they had the Atomic Bomb?

Einstein's strength was in theoretical physics, less so as a pure mathematician. A close friend and associate of his, Leo Szilard had realized early on that it might be possible to cause a nuclear chain reaction whereas Einstein thought it impossible because he had not considered other means. Leo finally went to Einstein and talked him into writing the president for fear that Hitler was working on the bomb and might develop it first making world conquest easy. Einstein was quite famous by that time and it was felt that adding Einstein's name to the letter would give it more weight to be taken seriously. It was on the basis of that letter that the Manhattan Project was begun to try to assure we got the bomb before the Nazis did.

And we did.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Einstein was a scientist - widely regarded as the best or among the best in all of history as we know it.

The others you mentioned were military leaders and leaders of nations. It is an apples & oranges comparison.

At that time, they were military leaders. Two of the three became heads of state, but at that time, they were focused on winning the war, as was Einstein.

Einstein became the most famous advocate of building the most powerful bomb in the world. Their exact jobs were different, but their aims were the same: Defeat the Axis powers, though as much destruction and bloodshed on the part of the enemy as they could inflict.

Even so - the others you mentioned were not the aggressors in WWII. They were defending their nations against a hostile aggressor. That - in itself - would not discount them as preferring diplomacy (pacifism) over war. As a matter of fact, many of the best leaders and military leaders of the world are among the first to advocate diplomacy because they understand what the horrors of war can bring.

True, indeed. But advocating diplomacy isn't even close to being an ideological pacifist.

As far as Einstein is concerned - he was a brilliant person - he understood the horrors Nazi Germany could bring to the world if they developed atomic energy and an atomic bomb, Not only did he deflect to the United States - he took the most brilliant scientists from that time period with him. He went above and beyond any expectations - that in itself would lean towards pacifism in the sense that he prevented the aggressors from essentially taking over the world and likely prevented millions of casualties as a result.

The pacifist idea would be to not fight back against any aggresion.

The only real pacifists that I know of are religious ones. I never heard of a Quaker or Amish person joining the Marines and claiming "I'm a pacifist, but a patriotic pacifist. I'm sure there were cases of Quakers nad Amish fighting in WWII. In fact Nixon was one. But they did not claim to still be pacifist.

Did Einstein make the right decision? The Atomic Bomb was used a total of two times in WWII and has not been used in the 80+ years since then.

What would have Nazi Germany done when they were losing on two fronts, taking on hundreds of thousands of casualties, during the end of WWII had they had the Atomic Bomb?

He absolutely had the right idea. Until he wanted to pull back, because the enemy he hated most was defeated and only Japanese were left. If the Japanese had won, no one, not Einstein, nor any member of his family, would have been spared from the atrocities. The Rape of Nanking could have been repeated over and over, starting with the Rape of San Francisco.

 

[Ace Nova]

At that time, they were military leaders. Two of the three became heads of state, but at that time, they were focused on winning the war, as was Einstein.

Einstein became the most famous advocate of building the most powerful bomb in the world. Their exact jobs were different, but their aims were the same: Defeat the Axis powers, though as much destruction and bloodshed on the part of the enemy as they could inflict.



True, indeed. But advocating diplomacy isn't even close to being an ideological pacifist.

The pacifist idea would be to not fight back against any aggresion.

The only real pacifists that I know of are religious ones. I never heard of a Quaker or Amish person joining the Marines and claiming "I'm a pacifist, but a patriotic pacifist. I'm sure there were cases of Quakers nad Amish fighting in WWII. In fact Nixon was one. But they did not claim to still be pacifist.

He absolutely had the right idea. Until he wanted to pull back, because the enemy he hated most was defeated and only Japanese were left. If the Japanese had won, no one, not Einstein, nor any member of his family, would have been spared from the atrocities. The Rape of Nanking could have been repeated over and over, starting with the Rape of San Francisco.

We are in agreement for the most part.

Of course Einstein wanted the Allies to prevail but his primary aim was to prevent the Axis powers from having the Atomic Bomb.(Big Difference)

Had he only wanted to defeat them, he could have likely developed the technology himself, with Oppenheimer and a few others. He would not have risked his life, the lives of his associates and the lives of dozens of the top scientists by conspiring to deflect them from Nazi Germany.