The Plight Of The Palestinians

[MJB12741]

Bad enough the Palestinians have been massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers & tens of thousands of others left as refugees in their trail of tears.

And then come the Zionists to brutalize & torture them with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel. Shame on Israel. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.

 

[proudveteran06]

Bad enough the Palestinians have been massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers & tens of thousands of others left as refugees in their trail of tears.

And then come the Zionists to brutalize & torture them with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel. Shame on Israel. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.

What they are demanding are the " 67 Borders" that the Arabs themselves have never recognized or respected , "Right of Return"which will never happen, and land In Israel linking Gaza and the W Bank.What is Abbas willing to give for land within the " Borders" that never existed? Not going to get it

 

[MJB12741]

I think Israel has had it with Palestinian demands. When Israel makes peace offerings, the Palestinians thank Israel with jihad's & intifadas. When Israel builds a security fence so the Palestinians can remain in Israel, the Palestinians call it an apartheid wall. When Israel grants them their own land in Gaza, Israel is rewarded with rocket missiles. And now the Palestinians want part of Jerusalem & Israel to return to the 67 borders. Kiss that one goodbye.

Bad enough the Palestinians have been massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers & tens of thousands of others left as refugees in their trail of tears.

And then come the Zionists to brutalize & torture them with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel. Shame on Israel. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.

What they are demanding are the " 67 Borders" that the Arabs themselves have never recognized or respected , "Right of Return"which will never happen, and land In Israel linking Gaza and the W Bank.What is Abbas willing to give for land within the " Borders" that never existed? Not going to get it

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

I think both sides are bit over zealous in their demands of the other. I think, for the last two decades, neither has been honest in the negotiation process.

While the Palestinians keep shouting "human rights" and "violations of this and that," they have initiated too many strikes, of one sort or another, to be considered operating inside the parameters of International Law and those principles. Both sides live in glass house, throwing stones, and fighting over the same toys, like children that need adult supervision.

I've heard, right in this discussion group, that the Palestinians have the "right to resist occupation" and use that as justification for extending violence. Yet the principle of International law, which they are always touting, say exactly the opposite. Palestinians make these outrageous claims that somehow, they were a state and "owned" Palestine, and therefore control their sovereignty --- without regard for the territorial authority of the past and the fact that there has never been a Palestinian Government in the history of man. Palestine has been ruled by Hebrews, Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottomans and Brits; but never by anyone known as Palestinians. Palestine is the Roman name for Israel; renamed by the Emperor to humiliate the Jewish People. It comes from the Hebrew word "Peleshet", a Biblical derivative to the word "Philistine" meaning immigrants by (from) the sea. It is not even arabic. Today's Palestine (Greco-Roman "Palastina") couldn't even chose their own name, let alone their destiny. Everything they say about themselves or claim is a derivative of a foreign power.​

Israelis make this similarly outrageous claim that they are tied by history, religion, and the forced migration - the intentional scattering of the Jewish people away from their ancestral homeland which started before the rise of the Persian Empire. That the land was awarded by their Supreme Being. That they have an ancient right to establish their capitol in Jerusalem; which hasn't been in their control for more than 2000 years.​

One set of claims is just as absurd as the other's.

The parties to a dispute have the duty, in the event of failure to reach a solution by any one of the above peaceful means, to continue to seek a settlement of the dispute by other peaceful means agreed upon by them.
They don't have the right to start an insurgency against a sovereign nation as a political-military means to force a solution.​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

I don't see how you can deny Israel's historical claim to the land.

et al,

I think both sides are bit over zealous in their demands of the other. I think, for the last two decades, neither has been honest in the negotiation process.

While the Palestinians keep shouting "human rights" and "violations of this and that," they have initiated too many strikes, of one sort or another, to be considered operating inside the parameters of International Law and those principles. Both sides live in glass house, throwing stones, and fighting over the same toys, like children that need adult supervision.

I've heard, right in this discussion group, that the Palestinians have the "right to resist occupation" and use that as justification for extending violence. Yet the principle of International law, which they are always touting, say exactly the opposite. Palestinians make these outrageous claims that somehow, they were a state and "owned" Palestine, and therefore control their sovereignty --- without regard for the territorial authority of the past and the fact that there has never been a Palestinian Government in the history of man. Palestine has been ruled by Hebrews, Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottomans and Brits; but never by anyone known as Palestinians. Palestine is the Roman name for Israel; renamed by the Emperor to humiliate the Jewish People. It comes from the Hebrew word "Peleshet", a Biblical derivative to the word "Philistine" meaning immigrants by (from) the sea. It is not even arabic. Today's Palestine (Greco-Roman "Palastina") couldn't even chose their own name, let alone their destiny. Everything they say about themselves or claim is a derivative of a foreign power.​

Israelis make this similarly outrageous claim that they are tied by history, religion, and the forced migration - the intentional scattering of the Jewish people away from their ancestral homeland which started before the rise of the Persian Empire. That the land was awarded by their Supreme Being. That they have an ancient right to establish their capitol in Jerusalem; which hasn't been in their control for more than 2000 years.​

One set of claims is just as absurd as the other's.

The parties to a dispute have the duty, in the event of failure to reach a solution by any one of the above peaceful means, to continue to seek a settlement of the dispute by other peaceful means agreed upon by them.
They don't have the right to start an insurgency against a sovereign nation as a political-military means to force a solution.​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

MJB12741, et al,

Ancient history and ancient claims.

I don't see how you can deny Israel's historical claim to the land.

(COMMENT)

There is no question that, historically, there is an association between the Hebrew and their ancestral land we call today, Palestine; once the Kingdom of David and Solomon.

But today's Hebrew is no more and no less tied to the region than the Philistine (Palestinian) [of Philistia (modern day Gaza)]. The Kingdom of Israel and Judea were conquered, like everything else in the region, several time by several culture; any of which could make a similar ancient claim.

The Jewish People had dominion from 1000BC - 722BC, and again from 141BC - 63BC. That is about 400 years. The Canaanites ruled for nearly 1800 to 2000 years, and the Muslim Arabs ruled for about 1300 years from 638AD to 1517. Ottomans ruled for about 400 years before the Mandate.

Under what criteria do we judge who has the greater ties to the land? And how much value do we give that tie?

The Jewish People have a historical tie (true); but, nothing that makes their tie so much superior that it justifies special consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

I think Israel has had it with Palestinian demands. When Israel makes peace offerings, the Palestinians thank Israel with jihad's & intifadas. When Israel builds a security fence so the Palestinians can remain in Israel, the Palestinians call it an apartheid wall. When Israel grants them their own land in Gaza, Israel is rewarded with rocket missiles. And now the Palestinians want part of Jerusalem & Israel to return to the 67 borders. Kiss that one goodbye.

All the Palestinian's want, is what was taken from them and to be left alone.

Israel won't do that.

 

[RoccoR]

loinboy, et al,

This sounds so simple.

I think Israel has had it with Palestinian demands. When Israel makes peace offerings, the Palestinians thank Israel with jihad's & intifadas. When Israel builds a security fence so the Palestinians can remain in Israel, the Palestinians call it an apartheid wall. When Israel grants them their own land in Gaza, Israel is rewarded with rocket missiles. And now the Palestinians want part of Jerusalem & Israel to return to the 67 borders. Kiss that one goodbye.

All the Palestinian's want, is what was taken from them and to be left alone.

Israel won't do that.

(COMMENT)

While I agree that there is some cause of action for the Palestinians, and some restitution due, there is much the Palestinian believes that "was taken from them" that simply appears, on face value, as inaccurate.

They should seek remides through the ICJ and cease violent actions.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Lipush]

I think Israel has had it with Palestinian demands. When Israel makes peace offerings, the Palestinians thank Israel with jihad's & intifadas. When Israel builds a security fence so the Palestinians can remain in Israel, the Palestinians call it an apartheid wall. When Israel grants them their own land in Gaza, Israel is rewarded with rocket missiles. And now the Palestinians want part of Jerusalem & Israel to return to the 67 borders. Kiss that one goodbye.

All the Palestinian's want, is what was taken from them and to be left alone.

Israel won't do that.

All Palestinian want, is a "Palestine" instead of the Jewish state, and Jews out of the land.

Yes, indeed, we won't do that.

 

[Billo_Really]

(COMMENT)

While I agree that there is some cause of action for the Palestinians, and some restitution due, there is much the Palestinian believes that "was taken from them" that simply appears, on face value, as inaccurate.

They should seek remides through the ICJ and cease violent actions.

Most Respectfully,
R

All violent actions are a direct result of the occupation.

End the occupation and you end the violence.

 

[RoccoR]

loinboy, et al,

That is not what history has shown with respect to the Palestinian.

(COMMENT)

While I agree that there is some cause of action for the Palestinians, and some restitution due, there is much the Palestinian believes that "was taken from them" that simply appears, on face value, as inaccurate.

They should seek remides through the ICJ and cease violent actions.

Most Respectfully,
R

All violent actions are a direct result of the occupation.

End the occupation and you end the violence.

(COMMENT)

What happened when the Israelis withdrew from Gaza?

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.
States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice. In seeking such a settlement the parties shall agree upon such peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute.

The parties to a dispute have the duty, in the event of failure to reach a solution by any one of the above peaceful means, to continue to seek a settlement of the dispute by other peaceful means agreed upon by them.

States parties to an international dispute, as well as other States shall refrain from any action which may aggravate the Situation so as to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, and shall act in accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

International disputes shall be settled on the basis of the Sovereign equality of States and in accordance with the Principle of free choice of means. Recourse to, or acceptance of, a settlement procedure freely agreed to by States with regard to existing or future disputes to which they are parties shall not be regarded as incompatible with sovereign equality.

Nothing in the foregoing paragraphs prejudices or derogates from the applicable provisions of the Charter, in particular those relating to the pacific settlement of international disputes.
SOURCE: ODS HOME PAGE

I guess we will see the Palestinians continue to violate the Principles. There is no right to violence. As long as the Palestinians demonstrate that they are a risk, the longer the Occupation stays in place. That is Article 51, right to self-defense.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

What happened when the Israelis withdrew from Gaza?

They didn't end the economic blockade, so they haven't really left.

Israel maintains "effective control" over the entire area of Gaza.

And that, according to international law, satisfy's the definition of an "occupation".

The laws of occupation apply if a state has "effective control" over the territory in question. The High Court has held contrary to Israel 's claim, stating that the creation and continuation of an occupation does not depend on the existence of an institution administering the lives of the local population, but only on the extent of its military control in the area. Furthermore, a certain area may be deemed occupied even if the army does not have a fixed presence throughout the whole area. Leading experts in humanitarian law maintain that effective control may also exist when the army controls key points in a particular area, reflecting its power over the entire area and preventing an alternative central government from formulating and carrying out its powers. The broad scope of Israeli control in the Gaza Strip, which exists despite the lack of a physical presence of IDF soldiers in the territory, creates a reasonable basis for the assumption that this control amounts to "effective control," such that the laws of occupation continue to apply.

 

[MJB12741]

HUH??? What was "taken" from the Palestinians?

(COMMENT)

While I agree that there is some cause of action for the Palestinians, and some restitution due, there is much the Palestinian believes that "was taken from them" that simply appears, on face value, as inaccurate.

They should seek remides through the ICJ and cease violent actions.

Most Respectfully,
R

All violent actions are a direct result of the occupation.

End the occupation and you end the violence.

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

I've never seen so many useful idiots congregated in one place before. With morons like these, Israel is going to have a good time when the shit hits the fan.

 

[Billo_Really]

HUH??? What was "taken" from the Palestinians?

Their right to self-determination. Their freedom of movement. Their economy. Their homes. Their land. Their dignity. Their loved ones. Their peace of mind. Their sovereignty. Their history. Their heritage.

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

HUH??? What was "taken" from the Palestinians?

Their right to self-determination. Their freedom of movement. Their economy. Their homes. Their land. Their dignity. Their loved ones. Their peace of mind. Their sovereignty. Their history. Their heritage.

Bullshit. When are you going to demand the USA and Canada give back their land to the American Natives? Civilization marches on and man evolves. If you want to stay stuck in the middle ages with a murderous cult, then go for it. The rest of us are seeking a peaceful world for our children and it appears you and your pals are going to have to be dealt with severely.

 

[MJB12741]

How do ya like that? And here I actually believed it was the Arab countries who took all you list here from the Palestinians. I wonder why the Palestinians stay in Israel instead of wanting to go back to their indigenous homelands?

HUH??? What was "taken" from the Palestinians?

Their right to self-determination. Their freedom of movement. Their economy. Their homes. Their land. Their dignity. Their loved ones. Their peace of mind. Their sovereignty. Their history. Their heritage.

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

How do ya like that? And here I actually believed it was the Arab countries who took all you list here from the Palestinians. I wonder why the Palestinians stay in Israel instead of wanting to go back to their indigenous homelands?

HUH??? What was "taken" from the Palestinians?

Their right to self-determination. Their freedom of movement. Their economy. Their homes. Their land. Their dignity. Their loved ones. Their peace of mind. Their sovereignty. Their history. Their heritage.

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Everyone who lives there is a "Palestinian". They are not a nationality. It's like saying people who live in Minnesota are Minnesotans. They are Arabs. That's their heritage, histry, etc. The rest is just bullshit.

 

[Billo_Really]

How do ya like that? And here I actually believed it was the Arab countries who took all you list here from the Palestinians. I wonder why the Palestinians stay in Israel instead of wanting to go back to their indigenous homelands?

They're not in Israel. They're right where they've been living for generations and there's nothing you can say that will change that.

 

[Billo_Really]

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Everyone who lives there is a "Palestinian". They are not a nationality. It's like saying people who live in Minnesota are Minnesotans. They are Arabs. That's their heritage, histry, etc. The rest is just bullshit.

Who gives a shit?

When you say "Palestinian", people pretty much know who you're referring to.