The limits of education.

[Woodznutz]

We know that education cannot overcome the power of human nature, but shouldn't our kids be taught that most of the problems education seeks to address are not caused by lack of knowledge but by unbridled human nature?

"Man isn't a thief because he steals. He steals because he is a thief." - (The late) Adrian Rogers.

 

[Oddball]

The core of Marxism is the denial of human nature, so it only follows that the "educated" have no awareness of it.

 

[Eman623]

We know that education cannot overcome the power of human nature, but shouldn't our kids be taught that most of the problems education seeks to address are not caused by lack of knowledge but by unbridled human nature?

"Man isn't a thief because he steals. He steals because he is a thief." - (The late) Adrian Rogers.

You know who were the absolute best at teaching kids about "unbridled human nature"? The Puritans!

Where else can you learn your ABCs and Original Sin all at the same time?

It's been oft noted that Marxists are the modern day Puritans.

 

[Foxfyre]

We know that education cannot overcome the power of human nature, but shouldn't our kids be taught that most of the problems education seeks to address are not caused by lack of knowledge but by unbridled human nature?

"Man isn't a thief because he steals. He steals because he is a thief." - (The late) Adrian Rogers.

Depends on the nature of the education. People who are indoctrinated with religious or sociopolitical propaganda can be persuaded to behave in ways that never would have occurred to them without that indoctrination.

Hitler youth, via that education system, were persuaded to reject the values of their parents, even turn against their parents and accuse them, that never would have happened without that indoctrination.

American youth are persuaded to be fearlul, anxious, and passionate because 'climate change is an existential threat to life on Planet Earth and the future of those youth.' This never would have occurred to them without the propaganda being fed to them constantly by educators plus no mitigating information being allowed into the school curriculum.

Manipulative education can make activists out of people whose natural human nature would not have taken that course. Do not underestimate the ability of the dishonorable to affect what people believe and how they will behave.

 

[jackflash]

We know that education cannot overcome the power of human nature, but shouldn't our kids be taught that most of the problems education seeks to address are not caused by lack of knowledge but by unbridled human nature?

"Man isn't a thief because he steals. He steals because he is a thief." - (The late) Adrian Rogers.

Excellent analogy on your part Woodnutz!!! Yeah, the current state of humanities human condition(human nature) is definitely flawed. The wars & crimes perpetrated by humans against their fellow humans alone should tell a person that there is a major problem with humanities nature in general. The statist left is so strung out in pride induced self righteous rebellion against common sense God given morality that they have become as blind as a bat to the reality of the human condition.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't

Excellent analogy on your part Woodnutz!!! Yeah, the current state of humanities human condition(human nature) is definitely flawed. The wars & crimes perpetrated by humans against their fellow humans alone should tell a person that there is a major problem with humanities nature in general. The statist left is so strung out in pride induced self righteous rebellion against common sense God given morality that they have become as blind as a bat to the reality of the human condition.

I don't accept so dismal a view of human nature though. The same world that gave us a Genghis Khan gave us a Ghandi. The same world that gave us King George also gave us Thomas Jefferson and the other founders. For every Orwell, there is an Albert Schweitzer.

All the people who risked their reputations, fortunes, their very lives to give us the greatest, most free, most benevolent nation on Earth were all imperfect people as all people are who made mistakes, overlook things we wished they hadn't, promoted concepts and policies that didn't end well. But they also made it possible for us to correct what was wrong, fix the mistakes, become better versions of who we are.

They were not going against their natures. It was their natures that accomplished all that. And today we have good, honest, productive, helpful, useful people who are not going against their nature. I maintain there are more of those than there are those whose nature is to be dishonest, manipulative, ugly, hateful, destructively greedy, malicious, contrarians to a fault, truly evil.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't

I don't accept so dismal a view of human nature though. The same world that gave us a Genghis Khan gave us a Ghandi. The same world that gave us King George also gave us Thomas Jefferson and the other founders. For every Orwell, there is an Albert Schweitzer.
...

Why is Orwell on your list?

 

[Foxfyre]

Why is Orwell on your list?

Negative vs positive

 

[Unkotare]

Negative vs positive

He just wrote those books, he didn't advocate totalitarianism.

 

[Foxfyre]

He just wrote those books, he didn't advocate totalitarianism.

I didn't say anything about totalitarianism and that would have been irrelevant to my post. Your responses to my posts keep getting increasingly weird and non sequitur. Why is that?

 

[Unkotare]

I didn't say anything about totalitarianism and that would have been irrelevant to my post. Your responses to my posts keep getting increasingly weird and non sequitur. Why is that?

Your contrast of Orwell and Schweitzer is what's weird.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your contrast of Orwell and Schweitzer is what's weird.

Your extrapolating that to some kind of argument re totalitarianism is hugely more wierd.

Orwell was consistently pessimistic and gloomy in his outlook for the destiny of humankind. Schweitzer was just as positive in his own outlook. I chose those two for the contrast.

 

[Unkotare]

Your extrapolating that to some kind of argument re totalitarianism is hugely more wierd.

Orwell was consistently pessimistic and gloomy in his outlook for the destiny of humankind. ...

You don't seem to have read or understood Orwell's work very well.

 

[Foxfyre]

You don't seem to have read or understood Orwell's work very well.

You have no clue what I have read or understand. And I do not choose to get into another nonsensical argument with you when you seem to have zero ability to support any rationale you have.

Do have a lovely afternoon.

 

[Unkotare]

You have no clue what I have read or understand. ...

True. I can only go by your own words here.

 

[Meathead]

You have no clue what I have read or understand. And I do not choose to get into another nonsensical argument with you when you seem to have zero ability to support any rationale you have.

Do have a lovely afternoon.

Good choice. Unk can argue endlessly about the stupidest things.

 

[Unkotare]

Good choice. Unk can argue endlessly about the stupidest things.

I won't argue about you.

 

[Foxfyre]

Good choice. Unk can argue endlessly about the stupidest things.

I may have forgotten but I don't think I've seen him and some others ever make a reasoned argument for their point of view. All you get are personal insults or insulting observations and really ignorant or snotty remarks.

I wonder if we can justify that as human nature? Or is it learned behavior?

 

[Meathead]

I won't argue about you.

Congrats, insight is important.

 

[Unkotare]

I may have forgotten but I don't think I've seen him and some others ever make a reasoned argument for their point of view. All you get are personal insults or insulting observations and really ignorant or snotty remarks.

...

You need to read more.