The End of the Netanyahu doctrine?

[Tom Paine 1949]

I think this author — a well known & experienced Israeli “pro-peace” journalist — is too hopeful that there will be any substantial changes in “the Netanyahu Doctrine” or move back toward a “two-state” solution for Israel / Palestine. But he does explain why Netanyahu and the hard Zionist right has over a long period accepted and actually encouraged Hamas rule in the Gaza Strip:


Did [Netanyahu’s] plan to preserve Hamas in Gaza as a tool for keeping the strip separate from the West Bank and the Palestinian Authority weak finally backfire?

This murderous and inhumane attack by Hamas arrived just as it seemed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was about to complete his masterpiece: peace with the Arab world while completely ignoring the Palestinians. This attack has reminded Israelis and the world, for better or for worse, that the Palestinians are still here, and that the century-old conflict here involves them, not the Emiratis or the Saudis….

Since he was first elected prime minister in 1996, Netanyahu has tried to avoid any negotiations with the Palestinian leadership, instead choosing to bypass it and push it aside. Israel does not need peace with the Palestinians to prosper, Netanyahu repeatedly claimed; its military, economic, and political strength is sufficient without it. The fact that during the years of his rule, especially between 2009 and 2019, Israel experienced economic prosperity and its international status improved, was, in his eyes, proof that he is following the right path.

The Abraham Accords signed with Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, and later also Sudan and Morocco, reinforced this belief conclusively. “For the past 25 years, we have been told repeatedly that peace with other Arab countries will only come after we resolve the conflict with the Palestinians,” Netanyahu wrote in an article in Haaretz before the last election. “Contrary to the prevailing position,” he continued, “I believe that the road to peace does not go through Ramallah, but bypasses it: instead of the Palestinian tail wagging the Arab world, I argued that peace should begin with Arab countries, which would isolate Palestinian obstinacy.” A peace agreement with Saudi Arabia was supposed to be the icing on the “peace for peace” cake that Netanyahu has spent years preparing.

Netanyahu did not invent the policy of separation between Gaza and the West Bank, nor the use of Hamas as a tool to weaken the Palestine Liberation Organization and its national ambitions to establish a Palestinian state. Then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s 2005 “disengagement” plan from Gaza was built on this logic. “This whole package called the Palestinian state has fallen off the agenda for an indefinite period of time,” said Dov Weissglas, Sharon’s advisor, explaining the political goal of disengagement at the time. “The plan provides the amount of formaldehyde required so that there will be no political process with the Palestinians.”

Netanyahu not only adopted this way of thinking, he also added to it the preservation of Hamas rule in Gaza as a tool for strengthening the separation between the strip and the West Bank. In 2018, for example, he agreed that Qatar would transfer millions of dollars a year to finance the Hamas government in Gaza, embodying the comments made in 2015 by Bezalel Smotrich (then a marginal Knesset member, and today the finance minister and de facto West Bank overlord) that “the Palestinian Authority is a burden and Hamas is an asset.”

“Netanyahu wants Hamas on its feet and is ready to pay an almost unimaginable price for it: half the country paralyzed, children and parents traumatized, houses bombed, people killed,” Israel’s current information minister, Galit Distel Atbaryan, wrote in May 2019, when she was yet to enter politics but was known as a prominent Netanyahu supporter….

“The question is, why?” Distel Atbaryan continued, before explaining: “If Hamas collapses, Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] may control the strip. If he controls it, there will be voices from the left that will encourage negotiations and a political solution and a Palestinian state, also in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank] … This is the real reason why Netanyahu does not eliminate the Hamas leader, everything else is bullshit.”

Indeed, Netanyahu himself had effectively admitted as much a couple of months before Distel Atbaryan made her comments, when he declared in a Likud meeting that “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas. This is part of our strategy, to isolate Palestinians in Gaza from Palestinians in Judea and Samaria.” …

The end of the Netanyahu doctrine

 

[watchingfromafar]

The End of the Netanyahu doctrine?​

It is not a question, it is a fact
as I se it
-

 

[rylah]

I think this author — a well known & experienced Israeli “pro-peace” journalist — is too hopeful that there will be any substantial changes in “the Netanyahu Doctrine” or move back toward a “two-state” solution for Israel / Palestine. But he does explain why Netanyahu and the hard Zionist right has over a long period accepted and actually encouraged Hamas rule in the Gaza Strip:


Did [Netanyahu’s] plan to preserve Hamas in Gaza as a tool for keeping the strip separate from the West Bank and the Palestinian Authority weak finally backfire?

This murderous and inhumane attack by Hamas arrived just as it seemed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was about to complete his masterpiece: peace with the Arab world while completely ignoring the Palestinians. This attack has reminded Israelis and the world, for better or for worse, that the Palestinians are still here, and that the century-old conflict here involves them, not the Emiratis or the Saudis….

Since he was first elected prime minister in 1996, Netanyahu has tried to avoid any negotiations with the Palestinian leadership, instead choosing to bypass it and push it aside. Israel does not need peace with the Palestinians to prosper, Netanyahu repeatedly claimed; its military, economic, and political strength is sufficient without it. The fact that during the years of his rule, especially between 2009 and 2019, Israel experienced economic prosperity and its international status improved, was, in his eyes, proof that he is following the right path.

The Abraham Accords signed with Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, and later also Sudan and Morocco, reinforced this belief conclusively. “For the past 25 years, we have been told repeatedly that peace with other Arab countries will only come after we resolve the conflict with the Palestinians,” Netanyahu wrote in an article in Haaretz before the last election. “Contrary to the prevailing position,” he continued, “I believe that the road to peace does not go through Ramallah, but bypasses it: instead of the Palestinian tail wagging the Arab world, I argued that peace should begin with Arab countries, which would isolate Palestinian obstinacy.” A peace agreement with Saudi Arabia was supposed to be the icing on the “peace for peace” cake that Netanyahu has spent years preparing.

Netanyahu did not invent the policy of separation between Gaza and the West Bank, nor the use of Hamas as a tool to weaken the Palestine Liberation Organization and its national ambitions to establish a Palestinian state. Then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s 2005 “disengagement” plan from Gaza was built on this logic. “This whole package called the Palestinian state has fallen off the agenda for an indefinite period of time,” said Dov Weissglas, Sharon’s advisor, explaining the political goal of disengagement at the time. “The plan provides the amount of formaldehyde required so that there will be no political process with the Palestinians.”

Netanyahu not only adopted this way of thinking, he also added to it the preservation of Hamas rule in Gaza as a tool for strengthening the separation between the strip and the West Bank. In 2018, for example, he agreed that Qatar would transfer millions of dollars a year to finance the Hamas government in Gaza, embodying the comments made in 2015 by Bezalel Smotrich (then a marginal Knesset member, and today the finance minister and de facto West Bank overlord) that “the Palestinian Authority is a burden and Hamas is an asset.”

“Netanyahu wants Hamas on its feet and is ready to pay an almost unimaginable price for it: half the country paralyzed, children and parents traumatized, houses bombed, people killed,” Israel’s current information minister, Galit Distel Atbaryan, wrote in May 2019, when she was yet to enter politics but was known as a prominent Netanyahu supporter….

“The question is, why?” Distel Atbaryan continued, before explaining: “If Hamas collapses, Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] may control the strip. If he controls it, there will be voices from the left that will encourage negotiations and a political solution and a Palestinian state, also in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank] … This is the real reason why Netanyahu does not eliminate the Hamas leader, everything else is bullshit.”

Indeed, Netanyahu himself had effectively admitted as much a couple of months before Distel Atbaryan made her comments, when he declared in a Likud meeting that “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas. This is part of our strategy, to isolate Palestinians in Gaza from Palestinians in Judea and Samaria.” …

The end of the Netanyahu doctrine

Until now, Netanyahu never had the opposition and international support to talk about "his doctrine".

The doctrine described, neither his plan, is the disengagement from Gaza, which unquestionably
achieved its set goals, of dividing the political blocks over territorial control, absent further
initiative or leverage for full military solution, has run its course, but the goals were
achieved, and proven detrimental, absent full military initiative or significant
pressure against the Islamist filth with an ultimatum to Gaza,
from the Arab world.

And it's not Netanyahu's "Hamas doctrine" which is at stake here,
or his personal historic heritage, but a possible clash between
much greater powers, and the opportunity to eradicate
the evil for the generations to come.

And not only the evil in Gaza,
but the very head of the snake.

Humanity deserves a world without this filth.

 

[watchingfromafar]

but the very head of the snake.

puti hanging by a thread

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think this author — a well known & experienced Israeli “pro-peace” journalist — is too hopeful that there will be any substantial changes in “the Netanyahu Doctrine” or move back toward a “two-state” solution for Israel / Palestine. But he does explain why Netanyahu and the hard Zionist right has over a long period accepted and actually encouraged Hamas rule in the Gaza Strip:


Did [Netanyahu’s] plan to preserve Hamas in Gaza as a tool for keeping the strip separate from the West Bank and the Palestinian Authority weak finally backfire?

This murderous and inhumane attack by Hamas arrived just as it seemed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was about to complete his masterpiece: peace with the Arab world while completely ignoring the Palestinians. This attack has reminded Israelis and the world, for better or for worse, that the Palestinians are still here, and that the century-old conflict here involves them, not the Emiratis or the Saudis….

Since he was first elected prime minister in 1996, Netanyahu has tried to avoid any negotiations with the Palestinian leadership, instead choosing to bypass it and push it aside. Israel does not need peace with the Palestinians to prosper, Netanyahu repeatedly claimed; its military, economic, and political strength is sufficient without it. The fact that during the years of his rule, especially between 2009 and 2019, Israel experienced economic prosperity and its international status improved, was, in his eyes, proof that he is following the right path.

The Abraham Accords signed with Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, and later also Sudan and Morocco, reinforced this belief conclusively. “For the past 25 years, we have been told repeatedly that peace with other Arab countries will only come after we resolve the conflict with the Palestinians,” Netanyahu wrote in an article in Haaretz before the last election. “Contrary to the prevailing position,” he continued, “I believe that the road to peace does not go through Ramallah, but bypasses it: instead of the Palestinian tail wagging the Arab world, I argued that peace should begin with Arab countries, which would isolate Palestinian obstinacy.” A peace agreement with Saudi Arabia was supposed to be the icing on the “peace for peace” cake that Netanyahu has spent years preparing.

Netanyahu did not invent the policy of separation between Gaza and the West Bank, nor the use of Hamas as a tool to weaken the Palestine Liberation Organization and its national ambitions to establish a Palestinian state. Then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s 2005 “disengagement” plan from Gaza was built on this logic. “This whole package called the Palestinian state has fallen off the agenda for an indefinite period of time,” said Dov Weissglas, Sharon’s advisor, explaining the political goal of disengagement at the time. “The plan provides the amount of formaldehyde required so that there will be no political process with the Palestinians.”

Netanyahu not only adopted this way of thinking, he also added to it the preservation of Hamas rule in Gaza as a tool for strengthening the separation between the strip and the West Bank. In 2018, for example, he agreed that Qatar would transfer millions of dollars a year to finance the Hamas government in Gaza, embodying the comments made in 2015 by Bezalel Smotrich (then a marginal Knesset member, and today the finance minister and de facto West Bank overlord) that “the Palestinian Authority is a burden and Hamas is an asset.”

“Netanyahu wants Hamas on its feet and is ready to pay an almost unimaginable price for it: half the country paralyzed, children and parents traumatized, houses bombed, people killed,” Israel’s current information minister, Galit Distel Atbaryan, wrote in May 2019, when she was yet to enter politics but was known as a prominent Netanyahu supporter….

“The question is, why?” Distel Atbaryan continued, before explaining: “If Hamas collapses, Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] may control the strip. If he controls it, there will be voices from the left that will encourage negotiations and a political solution and a Palestinian state, also in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank] … This is the real reason why Netanyahu does not eliminate the Hamas leader, everything else is bullshit.”

Indeed, Netanyahu himself had effectively admitted as much a couple of months before Distel Atbaryan made her comments, when he declared in a Likud meeting that “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas. This is part of our strategy, to isolate Palestinians in Gaza from Palestinians in Judea and Samaria.” …

The end of the Netanyahu doctrine

Israeli politics is a rough and tumble affair, and all kinds of nonsensical charges are thrown back and forth, but there never was a Netanyahu Doctrine to keep Hamas in charge in Gaza. In 2005, due mostly to Abbas' incompetence and corruption, Hamas defeated the PA in Palestinian election by a large margin, and this was unacceptable to the US, PA and Israel. Finally, in 2007, with US approval, Israel allowed Abbas to march 13,000 armed troops through Israe to assert control of Gaza. Hamas only had about 3,000 troops under arms, but they handily defeated Abbas' small army and took complete control of Gaza. From that time, it has been impossible for the two Palestinian groups to reconcile their differences.

It is true that Netanyahu was opposed to a Palestinian state, but so were most Israelis after the second intifada - that's why he won so many elections - but it is impossible to point to any actions Netanyahu took to prevent Hamas and the PA from reconciling.

Disagreements between Democrats and Republican in the US, even today, seem like kids squabbling in the sandbox in comparison to the viciousness of Israeli politics.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Disagreements between Democrats and Republican in the US, even today, seem like kids squabbling in the sandbox in comparison to the viciousness of Israeli politics.

Yes, we both agree that Israelis are lying, cruel and against the Lord Commandments.
Because this is what/who they are

 

[ESay]

What is Netanyahu's doctrine? To achieve peace deals with major Arab countries and resolve 'Palestinian question' in Israel's favor in the result of that? Yeah, this doctrine seems to have failed. Their main enemy in the region turned out to be too 'far reaching'.

The sad truth is this Israeli-Palestinian issue cannot end up with some peaceful solution with agreed terms from the both sides. They both have gone too far to make any steps back.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes, we both agree that Israelis are lying, cruel and against the Lord Commandments.
Because this is what/who they are

You and I agree on nothing. You are just an ignorant bigot capable of nothing but hate.

 

[watchingfromafar]

It is now time for Lebanon, Syria, Jorden and Egypt to join forces with one objective.

Get the Israelis to:

• welcome the Palestinians with open arms as brothers,
• Ask the Lord for forgiveness

.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,..,

Only then will God forgive them
I myself will not, they have murdered for far too long
-

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

It is now time for Lebanon, Syria, Jorden and Egypt to join forces with one objective.

Get the Israelis to:

• welcome the Palestinians with open arms as brothers,
• Ask the Lord for forgiveness

.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,..,

View attachment 843397
Only then will God forgive them
I myself will not, they have murdered for far too long
-

A big war to force the Israelis to accept Palestinians back as equal citizens in Israel, if that is what you are advocating, would be disastrous for all — and would do nothing for the Gazans or Palestinian cause.

What would be a constructive help, though certainly not a solution, would be for Egypt to open its border crossing to allow some Gazans to depart … to Egypt or other Arab countries. Of course they do not want to do this, but it could help. The Saudis need foreign workers and there is money internationally to help those willing to start anew in other lands.

 

[watchingfromafar]

What would be a constructive help, though certainly not a solution, would be for Egypt to open its border crossing to allow some Gazans to depart …

This is just what bobo wants. Once out, they will never be allowed back in.
-

 

[rylah]

puti hanging by a thread
View attachment 843372

More motivation for PM Netanyahu to finish off the filth.

 

[watchingfromafar]

More motivation for PM Netanyahu to finish off the filth.

Once again, a murderer calls for mass murder
-

 

[rylah]

Once again, a murderer calls for mass murder
-

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Excerpts from an article worth reading. It basically asks the question: “Is Israel preparing for a new “Nakba” of Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip?”

***

Why does Egypt fear evacuating Gaza?

Cairo worries that, instead of saving lives, a 'humanitarian corridor' could be a pretense to permanently exile Palestinians …

The Israeli army ordered the evacuation of the entire north half of Gaza, home to 1 million people, on Thursday night… The United Nations said that the evacuation order — which originally gave Palestinians only 24 hours to leave — was impossible to fulfill …

Egyptian president Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said in a speech late on Thursday that Egypt was committed to providing humanitarian aid to Gaza, but that Palestinians must “remain on their land” because their removal from Gaza would bring “the elimination of the [Palestinian] cause.” He had earlier claimed that “Egypt will not allow the Palestinian cause to be settled at the expense of other parties.”

The Biden administration is working to set up a “humanitarian corridor” for Palestinian civilians in Gaza to flee to Egypt, but Cairo is signaling that it will not accept a solution that forces Palestinians to leave Gaza without any hope of return.

Reuters reported on Wednesday that Egypt rejected the idea of evacuations in order to protect Palestinians’ right to stay on their land. A chorus of Egyptian officials, media personalities, and religious authorities have stated over the past two days — with almost exactly the same wording — that Egypt will not tolerate Israel pushing Palestinians into Egypt at the expense of “Egyptian sovereignty.”

Speaking anonymously to Cairo News, high-level officials denounced the “calls for a mass exodus” from “some parties,” which are a “proxy for emptying the [Gaza] Strip of its inhabitants and liquidating the Palestinian issue itself.” The statement seemed aimed at Israeli member of parliament Ariel Kallner, who called for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza this week.

Egypt’s prestigious Al-Azhar seminary, meanwhile, put out a statement on Wednesday urging Palestinians to remain “steadfast,” because “leaving your land is the death of your cause and will cause the disappearance of your land forever.”

Israel, reeling from the murder of hundreds of Israeli civilians by Hamas guerrillas, has begun an intense retribution campaign against Gaza, the Palestinian enclave ruled by Hamas. The Israeli military has cut off food, water, and electricity to Gaza while bombing the area more intensely than ever before.

Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed, and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is widely expected to launch a ground invasion. International calls for a “humanitarian corridor” have mounted as food rations dry up and hospitals run low on vital supplies. However, different parties have very different visions in mind. The World Health Organization is demanding that medicine be allowed into Gaza, while the Biden administration has apparently focused on evacuating civilians out of Gaza.

It is unclear whether the Biden administration would pressure Israel to allow Palestinians to return to Gaza after the war is over. U.S. officials have publicly called on Israel to respect the laws of war.

The situation resembles the siege of Karabakh over the past few months. Azerbaijani authorities had cut off food supplies to the Armenian enclave of Karabakh for several months, leading to mass starvation. Last month, the Azerbaijani military began a campaign to retake Karabakh, while advertising a “humanitarian corridor” — in those exact words — for locals to flee to Armenia.

Almost the entire population of Karabakh fled and are unlikely to return. Many critics, from Armenian prime minister Nikol Pashinyan to prominent American columnists, have called the emptying of Karabakh an act of ethnic cleansing.

Israeli politicians have indicated that they prefer a similar solution in Gaza, and perhaps the entire Palestinian territories. The idea of solving the Palestinian issue through “population transfer” has grown more popular with the Israeli public over the past few years. Bezalel Smotrich, the Israeli minister in charge of the West Bank, once proposed a “Decisive Plan” that would give Palestinians a choice between accepting permanent Israeli rule or emigrating.

Kallner, the Israeli member of parliament, wrote on social media that Israel should have “one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join!”

The Nakba refers to the mass exile of Palestinians during the Israeli war of independence in 1948. Around 700,000 people left their homes, with many fleeing to Gaza, then under Egyptian control.

Egypt relinquished its claim to Gaza in the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty of 1978. The treaty, known as the Camp David Accords, called for Israel to establish Palestinian self-rule in the territory instead. Jordan agreed to a similar principle in the 1980s, giving up its claims on the West Bank in favor of the Palestinian independence movement.

Jordanian leaders often say that their goal was to prevent Israel from trying to create an “alternative [Palestinian] homeland” on Jordanian soil. Khaled el Gendy, an official with Egypt’s ministry of religion, brought up the same specter in a Tuesday speech.

“Now some calls have appeared to push the Palestinians out of their land and put them into the Sinai to create an alternative homeland,” he said, referring to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula. “This cannot happen, ever.”

The Israeli ambassador in Cairo stated on social media that Israel has no designs on taking the Sinai from Egypt.

Of course, it is possible to evacuate civilians from Gaza without Egypt's involvement. Israeli authorities could allow Palestinians to travel from Gaza to the West Bank — or they could set up refugee camps within Israel proper. Such a solution would assuage concerns that Israel plans to permanently depopulate Gaza.

However, Israel does not appear interested in taking in Palestinian refugees. All checkpoints controlling access to the West Bank are also under complete lockdown.

Why does Egypt fear evacuating Gaza?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Excerpts from an article worth reading. It basically asks the question: “Is Israel preparing for a new “Nakba” of Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip?”

***

Why does Egypt fear evacuating Gaza?

Cairo worries that, instead of saving lives, a 'humanitarian corridor' could be a pretense to permanently exile Palestinians …

The Israeli army ordered the evacuation of the entire north half of Gaza, home to 1 million people, on Thursday night… The United Nations said that the evacuation order — which originally gave Palestinians only 24 hours to leave — was impossible to fulfill …

Egyptian president Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said in a speech late on Thursday that Egypt was committed to providing humanitarian aid to Gaza, but that Palestinians must “remain on their land” because their removal from Gaza would bring “the elimination of the [Palestinian] cause.” He had earlier claimed that “Egypt will not allow the Palestinian cause to be settled at the expense of other parties.”

The Biden administration is working to set up a “humanitarian corridor” for Palestinian civilians in Gaza to flee to Egypt, but Cairo is signaling that it will not accept a solution that forces Palestinians to leave Gaza without any hope of return.

Reuters reported on Wednesday that Egypt rejected the idea of evacuations in order to protect Palestinians’ right to stay on their land. A chorus of Egyptian officials, media personalities, and religious authorities have stated over the past two days — with almost exactly the same wording — that Egypt will not tolerate Israel pushing Palestinians into Egypt at the expense of “Egyptian sovereignty.”

Speaking anonymously to Cairo News, high-level officials denounced the “calls for a mass exodus” from “some parties,” which are a “proxy for emptying the [Gaza] Strip of its inhabitants and liquidating the Palestinian issue itself.” The statement seemed aimed at Israeli member of parliament Ariel Kallner, who called for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza this week.

Egypt’s prestigious Al-Azhar seminary, meanwhile, put out a statement on Wednesday urging Palestinians to remain “steadfast,” because “leaving your land is the death of your cause and will cause the disappearance of your land forever.”

Israel, reeling from the murder of hundreds of Israeli civilians by Hamas guerrillas, has begun an intense retribution campaign against Gaza, the Palestinian enclave ruled by Hamas. The Israeli military has cut off food, water, and electricity to Gaza while bombing the area more intensely than ever before.

Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed, and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is widely expected to launch a ground invasion. International calls for a “humanitarian corridor” have mounted as food rations dry up and hospitals run low on vital supplies. However, different parties have very different visions in mind. The World Health Organization is demanding that medicine be allowed into Gaza, while the Biden administration has apparently focused on evacuating civilians out of Gaza.

It is unclear whether the Biden administration would pressure Israel to allow Palestinians to return to Gaza after the war is over. U.S. officials have publicly called on Israel to respect the laws of war.

The situation resembles the siege of Karabakh over the past few months. Azerbaijani authorities had cut off food supplies to the Armenian enclave of Karabakh for several months, leading to mass starvation. Last month, the Azerbaijani military began a campaign to retake Karabakh, while advertising a “humanitarian corridor” — in those exact words — for locals to flee to Armenia.

Almost the entire population of Karabakh fled and are unlikely to return. Many critics, from Armenian prime minister Nikol Pashinyan to prominent American columnists, have called the emptying of Karabakh an act of ethnic cleansing.

Israeli politicians have indicated that they prefer a similar solution in Gaza, and perhaps the entire Palestinian territories. The idea of solving the Palestinian issue through “population transfer” has grown more popular with the Israeli public over the past few years. Bezalel Smotrich, the Israeli minister in charge of the West Bank, once proposed a “Decisive Plan” that would give Palestinians a choice between accepting permanent Israeli rule or emigrating.

Kallner, the Israeli member of parliament, wrote on social media that Israel should have “one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join!”

The Nakba refers to the mass exile of Palestinians during the Israeli war of independence in 1948. Around 700,000 people left their homes, with many fleeing to Gaza, then under Egyptian control.

Egypt relinquished its claim to Gaza in the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty of 1978. The treaty, known as the Camp David Accords, called for Israel to establish Palestinian self-rule in the territory instead. Jordan agreed to a similar principle in the 1980s, giving up its claims on the West Bank in favor of the Palestinian independence movement.

Jordanian leaders often say that their goal was to prevent Israel from trying to create an “alternative [Palestinian] homeland” on Jordanian soil. Khaled el Gendy, an official with Egypt’s ministry of religion, brought up the same specter in a Tuesday speech.

“Now some calls have appeared to push the Palestinians out of their land and put them into the Sinai to create an alternative homeland,” he said, referring to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula. “This cannot happen, ever.”

The Israeli ambassador in Cairo stated on social media that Israel has no designs on taking the Sinai from Egypt.

Of course, it is possible to evacuate civilians from Gaza without Egypt's involvement. Israeli authorities could allow Palestinians to travel from Gaza to the West Bank — or they could set up refugee camps within Israel proper. Such a solution would assuage concerns that Israel plans to permanently depopulate Gaza.

However, Israel does not appear interested in taking in Palestinian refugees. All checkpoints controlling access to the West Bank are also under complete lockdown.

Why does Egypt fear evacuating Gaza?

This is all about Egypt and not at all about Israel. Israel advised the Gazans to go south to avoid being caught in the crossfire when the ground assault begins, but never suggested they leave Gaza.

In response to questions about the siege, which is legal under the Laws of Armed Conflict, Israel said it would allow supplies to come in from Egypt if Hamas released all the hostages.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

This is all about Egypt and not at all about Israel. Israel advised the Gazans to go south to avoid being caught in the crossfire when the ground assault begins, but never suggested they leave Gaza.

In response to questions about the siege, which is legal under the Laws of Armed Conflict, Israel said it would allow supplies to come in from Egypt if Hamas released all the hostages.

The article mentions opinions of members of the Knesset in Israel as well as the attitudes of Egyptians, Jordanians, and media personalities in Arab countries. I think the continuing delays and disagreements on handling the Rafa border crossing, as well as reported Israeli strikes nearby, may signify that this problem will not be easily resolved. I doubt that return of all the hostages of Hamas will occur in one swift capitulation, or that aid can be halted until this happens. I don’t speak of “Laws of Armed Conflict” here so much as of motivations and attitudes on all sides.

I have no idea of how long this crisis will go on, or even if Israeli soldiers will re-occupy Gaza City or simply level it. Can Israel even identify and seize all or most Hamas hardcore activists? Some Israelis talk of Hamas having 150,000 members / active supporters. Others say it has 600,000 supporters.

I really wonder how many Gaza residents would choose to leave “Palestinian land” altogether if given little choice or a real alternative, especially if the whole North of Gaza is turned to rubble.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The article mentions opinions of members of the Knesset in Israel as well as the attitudes of Egyptians, Jordanians, and media personalities in Arab countries. I think the continuing delays and disagreements on handling the Rafa border crossing, as well as reported Israeli strikes nearby, may signify that this problem will not be easily resolved. I doubt that return of all the hostages of Hamas will occur in one swift capitulation, or that aid can be halted until this happens. I don’t speak of “Laws of Armed Conflict” here so much as of motivations and attitudes on all sides.

I have no idea of how long this crisis will go on, or even if Israeli soldiers will re-occupy Gaza City or simply level it. Can Israel even identify and seize all or most Hamas hardcore activists? Some Israelis talk of Hamas having 150,000 members / active supporters. Others say it has 600,000 supporters.

I really wonder how many Gaza residents would choose to leave “Palestinian land” altogether if given little choice or a real alternative, especially if the whole North of Gaza is turned to rubble.

The decisions on how to proceed will be made by the war cabinet, not by the Knesset, and the decisions will continue to be to destroy Hamas while always operating within the Laws of War.

Egypt is still battling the Jihadists in Sinai, some of whom have connections with Hamas, and I'm guessing Egypt's main concern is how large numbers of Gazans leaving for Sinai will affect the situation there. Every time Egyptian officials are asked about opening the Rafah crossing to allow foreigners to leave or to allow supplies to enter, they respond as if they had been asked to allow Gazans to leave. During the Egyptian civil war, Hamas sided with the Muslim Brotherhood, so Egypt has reason to be wary of them.

The goal is to destroy Hamas so it cannot again attack Israel, and to achieve that goal all of Hamas' soldiers (30,000?) will have to be sought out and killed or captured and all their weapons destroyed, so there would be no reason to level Gaza, however since Hamas embeds its military assets in civilian areas, there will necessarily be a lot of damage to civilian infrastructure.

According to the polls I have seen, well over half the Palestinians support Hamas in peacetime, and many more in times of conflict so obviously Israel will not go after them all, and that means a suffcient IDF presence must remain to prevent these Hamas supporters from regrouping to try to attack Israel again.

No one knows how long this war will take, but the IDF has been preparing for it for many years, and in 2018 estimated it could reoccupy Gaza in several weeks.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Pack them all on ships and send them to Iran.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The Biden Administration has warned Israel that occupying the Gaza Strip would be a mistake, while one official representative of the Israeli military has indicated Israel has other unspecified options besides an Israeli land occupation it can adopt to reach its goals.

Meanwhile the Israel government has also said it has no plan for a long-term occupation. Of course these are just words. Negotiation goes on at different levels between Egypt and Israel and other concerned parties. The Rafa crossing is still mostly closed (though water and some fuel was let in recently), but Israel has denied it promised not to bomb the South of Gaza or even areas near the Rafa crossing. Even foreign (and American) passport holders are not getting out at this point.

Egypt controls the Rafa Crossing and is apparently preparing for the likelihood that Gazan Palestinians may end up pouring into the Sinai and perhaps settling there in refugee camps. The situation continues to be chaotic and unresolved. Excerpts from an Israeli article published yesterday:

***

Egypt said to brace for possibility of refugee influx from Gaza.

Though Rafah crossing is still closed, Cairo is reportedly beefing up military presence in Sinai along Gaza border, designating locations to shelter fleeing Palestinians

Egypt has been preparing for the possibility of a massive inflow of refugees from the Gaza Strip through the Rafah crossing, its only land corridor from the coastal Palestinian territory, according to various sources.

While the crossing connecting the Palestinian enclave and the Sinai peninsula in Egypt is still closed, Cairo has been gearing up to ensure that the possible entry of thousands of Palestinians into its territory will not destabilize the border area, battered over the past years by clashes between the Egyptian army and Islamist insurgents…..

The Rafah crossing, in the south of the Strip, was still closed on Monday, as Israel denied reports that it had agreed to a ceasefire in the area to allow for its reopening and the entry of humanitarian aid.

Hundreds of foreigners and Palestinians with dual citizenship have been standing in line on the Palestinian side of the crossing waiting to leave ….

While Gazans are not currently seeking to exit the Strip en masse, and while both Egypt and Hamas have called on the civilian population to remain in spite of the Israeli offensive, various sources indicated that Cairo has been bracing to take in some of the 2.3 million residents of the Strip.

Egypt said to brace for possibility of refugee influx from Gaza