Speaking of speaking...

[Unkotare]

How much emphasis should be placed on actually learning a foreign language (or languages) well for secondary school students in English-speaking countries?

When I was in school you had to take either Spanish or French starting in Jr High, but it was never treated as an 'important' subject, and nothing approaching true, practical facility with the language was really expected. Should it be? Should kids be started much sooner and with much higher expectations of eventual fluency? Should a wider variety of choice be available to all students in regards to foreign-language study? Should foreign languages be required at all if a student's first language happens to be the global lingua franca of the day?

Reviving languages: Generation monoglot | The Economist

In the UK: "The past two decades have witnessed a sharp decline in the numbers of teenagers poring over French verbs, let alone the oddities of German, which as Mark Twain, a 19th-century American writer, observed, renders a girl neuter but a turnip feminine."

"That accelerated a longer period of modern-languages decline, as pupils switched to subjects perceived to be easier or more practical."

"Reasons for the reluctance to persist with languages might include emphasis by successive governments on maths, science and technology. But overall, incentives to learn languages in Britain remain frustratingly haphazard. Primary schools are not required to teach a foreign language. Steve Smith, a teacher and blogger on language trends, notes that the university admissions system no longer treats a language as a core requirement."

" A reason for Britain’s poor record of producing linguists may also lie in the thought that they are not essential, because English dominates. Daniel Hannan, an outspoken (and multilingual) member of the European Parliament, says the case for learning French and German is dwindling as travel and trade widen out beyond Europe. Pupils may well do better to know Turkish and Arabic instead, he says—assuming that they don’t mind the humiliation of struggling with a French menu."

 

[Mr. H.]

I had 4 years of French in high school. Sorry I didn't keep up those studies through college.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

With the US quickly headed to a majority Latino Hispanic trend I would require Spanish be taught from 1st grade to 8th just like English.

 

[Skull Pilot]

IMO people should learn to speak and write English properly, then worry about another language.

Really is there anyone on earth you want to speak to that speaks only Spanish or French?

 

[Unkotare]

With the US quickly headed to a majority Latino Hispanic trend I would require Spanish be taught from 1st grade to 8th just like English.

But Spanish-speaking immigrants are assimilating and adopting English just like other immigrant groups before them, so...?

 

[Unkotare]

Really is there anyone on earth you want to speak to that speaks only Spanish or French?

Well, since Spanish is the second most common first-language in the world (with French coming in at around #11) the chances are that the answer will be 'yes.'

 

[syrenn]

is speaking English fluently a foreign language now? sometimes i wonder.

 

[Skull Pilot]

is speaking English fluently foreign language now? sometimes i wonder.

It is in this country.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Really is there anyone on earth you want to speak to that speaks only Spanish or French?

Well, since Spanish is the second most common first-language in the world (with French coming in at around #11) the chances are that the answer will be 'yes.'

Really who?

Or are you going to say, "Gee you might someday in the near or distant future come across a guy you want to talk to that speaks only French"?

I highly doubt it.

 

[Unkotare]

Really is there anyone on earth you want to speak to that speaks only Spanish or French?

Well, since Spanish is the second most common first-language in the world (with French coming in at around #11) the chances are that the answer will be 'yes.'

Really who?

Or are you going to say, "Gee you might someday in the near or distant future come across a guy you want to talk to that speaks only French"?

I highly doubt it.

Well, since you personally just happen to hate humans in general and never venture outside your bunker I'm sure you can get by just fine with a series of simple grunts, but since we are talking about well over a billion people it's really not such a stretch for the rest of us.

 

[Mr. H.]

is speaking English fluently a foreign language now? sometimes i wonder.

Is the "SHIFT" button gone from your computer?
We'll start calling you e.e. syrenn

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well, since Spanish is the second most common first-language in the world (with French coming in at around #11) the chances are that the answer will be 'yes.'

Really who?

Or are you going to say, "Gee you might someday in the near or distant future come across a guy you want to talk to that speaks only French"?

I highly doubt it.

Well, since you personally just happen to hate humans in general and never venture outside your bunker I'm sure you can get by just fine with a series of simple grunts, but since we are talking about well over a billion people it's really not such a stretch for the rest of us.

I don't hate anyone. I really just don't care. Hate takes up too much energy you should know since of the two of us you are much more hostile and prone to making personal attacks.

So what language are you learning right now so you can talk to some guy you never met before that speaks only that language?

And I travel quite a bit probably more than you. And your crappy 800 sf apartment in Roxbury is more like a bunker than my 3000 sf farm house on five acres

 

[rightwinger]

Americans already speak the right language.....there is no reason to learn another

 

[DGS49]

As time goes by, those of us who work in the international community see more and more people speaking English comfortably, as school children around the world are taught English as "an essential second language." Like it or not, learning a foreign language (if you are a native English speaker) is less and less important.

Also, it is good to keep in mind that people in other countries are greatly advantaged to learn foreign languages, especially English, as you can no longer go through your entire life speaking only Spanish, French, German, or whatever. If you want to get ahead, you MUST speak English, and probably a couple other languages of nearby countries as well. My colleagues in Luxembourg learned German, English, and French before graduating from (their equivalent to) high school.

One final factor that we American's don't think about is that English is ALL OVER THE PLACE in the rest of the world. It is on television, they listen to English language music, they watch American TV programs and movies, the can always tune into an English language radio station. That is extremely helpful to someone trying to learn English. I met a tour guide last month in ESTONIA, who spoke beautiful English, and he claimed that 90% of it was picked up off the television.

For Americans, I think a good background in Spanish is a good idea, simply because of the demographics of our country, but studying French, for example, and thinking that will give you a leg up in your career is delusional. Every French-speaking person you deal with will speak English much better than you speak French, and you will end up dealing with them almost entirely in English, like it or not.

 

[rightwinger]

As time goes by, those of us who work in the international community see more and more people speaking English comfortably, as school children around the world are taught English as "an essential second language." Like it or not, learning a foreign language (if you are a native English speaker) is less and less important.

Also, it is good to keep in mind that people in other countries are greatly advantaged to learn foreign languages, especially English, as you can no longer go through your entire life speaking only Spanish, French, German, or whatever. If you want to get ahead, you MUST speak English, and probably a couple other languages of nearby countries as well. My colleagues in Luxembourg learned German, English, and French before graduating from (their equivalent to) high school.

One final factor that we American's don't think about is that English is ALL OVER THE PLACE in the rest of the world. It is on television, they listen to English language music, they watch American TV programs and movies, the can always tune into an English language radio station. That is extremely helpful to someone trying to learn English. I met a tour guide last month in ESTONIA, who spoke beautiful English, and he claimed that 90% of it was picked up off the television.

For Americans, I think a good background in Spanish is a good idea, simply because of the demographics of our country, but studying French, for example, and thinking that will give you a leg up in your career is delusional. Every French-speaking person you deal with will speak English much better than you speak French, and you will end up dealing with them almost entirely in English, like it or not.

Well said

People put down Americans because they only speak one language. But in most of the world, people who are bilingual speak English as their second language. If an international corporation is working on a joint project using French, German and Italian employees, they will speak English. It is now the common language

When I have been to Mexico, they spoke English. When I was in Italy, they spoke English. When I was in Greece, they spoke English.
American culture has spread around the world. Our movies and television are the main reason English is the dominant language

 

[Unkotare]

Really who?

Or are you going to say, "Gee you might someday in the near or distant future come across a guy you want to talk to that speaks only French"?

I highly doubt it.

Well, since you personally just happen to hate humans in general and never venture outside your bunker I'm sure you can get by just fine with a series of simple grunts, but since we are talking about well over a billion people it's really not such a stretch for the rest of us.

I don't hate anyone. I really just don't care.

= you hate people. At least be honest about it, Francis.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well, since you personally just happen to hate humans in general and never venture outside your bunker I'm sure you can get by just fine with a series of simple grunts, but since we are talking about well over a billion people it's really not such a stretch for the rest of us.

I don't hate anyone. I really just don't care.

= you hate people. At least be honest about it, Francis.

You're wrong as usual.

Hate is an emotion that takes a lot of energy.

Apathy and hate are two completely different things.

Go ask a teaching assistant to show you how to use a dictionary.

 

[Alfalfa]

It's more important in Europe for students to learn foreign languages since there are dozens on their doorstep, less important in the US where there is basically one and few travel extensively internationally.

I think it's good for them to learn another language, but shouldn't be required. What good does ONE foreign language do you? So you learn french, what good does that do you when you go to Spain, Germany, Japan, China or Russia?

 

[rightwinger]

It's more important in Europe for students to learn foreign languages since there are dozens on their doorstep, less important in the US where there is basically one and few travel extensively internationally.

I think it's good for them to learn another language, but shouldn't be required. What good does ONE foreign language do you? So you learn french, what good does that do you when you go to Spain, Germany, Japan, China or Russia?

You could make an argument that Americans should learn some Spanish

But even most Hispanic immigrants speak some english and second generation immigrants all speak english

 

[Alfalfa]

It's more important in Europe for students to learn foreign languages since there are dozens on their doorstep, less important in the US where there is basically one and few travel extensively internationally.

I think it's good for them to learn another language, but shouldn't be required. What good does ONE foreign language do you? So you learn french, what good does that do you when you go to Spain, Germany, Japan, China or Russia?

You could make an argument that Americans should learn some Spanish

But even most Hispanic immigrants speak some english and second generation immigrants all speak english

I would call it advisable to learn spanish since it can be used throughout N, C and S America which is where 80% of Americans live, travel and vacation. I took 3 years of spanish, used to speak it pretty good but as they say, use it or lose it. I can still get by but it is struggle now. The first thing to go is the verbs and various conjugations.

Other languages may be advisable if the student is considering a career where it is needed. I know for a fact that some students take japanese, chinese and arabic because they believe it will be an advantage in the future. There was a time when some took Russian, but I think that horse may have left the barn.

Some claim it may be best to know French since it may be second to English in common usage but that orbit gets smaller by the day.

Many foreign countries require their students take English. In Japan they require 6 years but i was in Japan earlier this year and can tell you few speak it. 10 days there and I only found three people who did and they only wanted to converse with me to practice.