Salvation?

[NewGuy]

What specifically in your belief system determines salvation?

We are not talking about day to day behavior necessarily, but the thing that specifically defines your entry into the next plane of existence.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by NewGuy
What specifically in your belief system determines salvation?

We are not talking about day to day behavior necessarily, but the thing that specifically defines your entry into the next plane of existence.

Belief that Jesus is the Son of God, that dies for our sins, that whosoever believes in him shall know eternal life and salvation.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by NewGuy
What specifically in your belief system determines salvation?

We are not talking about day to day behavior necessarily, but the thing that specifically defines your entry into the next plane of existence.

can you be more specific? maybe give an example of what you want?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
can you be more specific? maybe give an example of what you want?

Actually, I don't think so.

Whatever it is that your belief system would dictate allows the next step in your existence: life off of this Earth, reincarnation, trip to paradise, heaven, etc.

 

[freeandfun1]

i think what he is getting at is what do you believe happens to you or your soul upon death. Does it continue on, and if so, what are the prerequisites, if any, for it to continue on?

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
i think what he is getting at is what do you believe happens to you or your soul upon death. Does it continue on, and if so, what are the prerequisites, if any, for it to continue on?

Then he could have simply just said that.

When we die our bodies are separated from our Spirits until the day of the resurrection of the just and unjust as Christ taught. Then we will rise in glory and judged according to our actions. Those who accepted the Atonement of Christ will be saved from spiritual death.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
i think what he is getting at is what do you believe happens to you or your soul upon death. Does it continue on, and if so, what are the prerequisites, if any, for it to continue on?

Perfect!

It has been a tiring day for me so far.... :

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Perfect!

It has been a tiring day for me so far.... :

I think we can all relate

 

[Gop guy]

Originally posted by NewGuy
What specifically in your belief system determines salvation?

We are not talking about day to day behavior necessarily, but the thing that specifically defines your entry into the next plane of existence.

My truly being sorry for my sins and trying my best to follow the Bible.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Gop guy
My truly being sorry for my sins and trying my best to follow the Bible.

amen! trusting and believing in Christ..... that is MY route to eternal salvation!

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by NewGuy
What specifically in your belief system determines salvation?

No salvation. No forgiveness.


I'd like to be placed, intact, into a burlap sack, head first into a 8 foot hole, and have a Salix babylonica seedling planted on top of me. Lunch time!

 

[Bullypulpit]

From a buddhist perspective, one could be reborn as either human, animal or spirit depending upon which of the many karmic debts they had accumulated over their life time. Or, if one had shed the poisons of greed, fear, attatchment and so on, they would enter the state of Nirvana, and pass from this world entirely, beyond which point the Buddha did not speculate...considering such speculations to be fruitless.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by freeandfun1

amen! trusting and believing in Christ..... that is MY route to eternal salvation!

Many missionaries cite as proof that man is completely unrighteous and in a permanent state of sin, were put forth at a time when the divine means of atonement were set forth in the Bible and known by Jesus himself. To claim that man has no power of initiating the process of atonement or that man's righteous deeds have no meaning to G-d is tantamount to saying that G-d (the Father) contradicts himself. Your belief that atonement can only be through Jesus Christ runs counter to the provisions for atonement prescribed in the words of the (Old) Testament. First and foremost, G-d, and no son or anyone else, provides the means of reconciliation and fellowship as seen in

2 Chronicles 7

14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

If you will see that prayer, seeking G-d and turning from one's wicked ways precludes any claim for atonement through the shed blood of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Thus your question to others "are you saved" is thus a question having no basis in the original scriptures from which the New Testament is based.

 

[dmp]

Points to ponder:

We aren't really saved from anything, until we die...Until then, it's just a process of trying to figure out what Christ was trying to get through our thick heads.

Believing the Bible is useless as a means to 'salvation' - God is MUCH bigger than what we have in the Bible.

Praying and 'trying to do what's right' isn't going to 'ensure salvation' either.

Saved is a term a lot of religious organizations throw around as an 'event' in one's spiritual life. To me, it's used to the point of cliche.

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by ajwps
Many missionaries cite as proof that man is completely unrighteous and in a permanent state of sin, were put forth at a time when the divine means of atonement were set forth in the Bible and known by Jesus himself. To claim that man has no power of initiating the process of atonement or that man's righteous deeds have no meaning to G-d is tantamount to saying that G-d (the Father) contradicts himself. Your belief that atonement can only be through Jesus Christ runs counter to the provisions for atonement prescribed in the words of the (Old) Testament. First and foremost, G-d, and no son or anyone else, provides the means of reconciliation and fellowship as seen in

If you will see that prayer, seeking G-d and turning from one's wicked ways precludes any claim for atonement through the shed blood of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Thus your question to others "are you saved" is thus a question having no basis in the original scriptures from which the New Testament is based.

The Old Testament is useless when determining attonement for one's sins. Any recipe for Making things right with God perscribed in the OT is irrelavent in so much that it's merely 'history' of how God dealt with humans. From the moment of Christ's Death, all our sins are covered, should we merely 'accept'. I'd wager last-minute convert to Christ (say, as a plane is falling) wouldn't have time to 'turn from evil'.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by -=d=-

The Old Testament is useless when determining attonement for one's sins. Any recipe for Making things right with God perscribed in the OT is irrelavent in so much that it's merely 'history' of how God dealt with humans. From the moment of Christ's Death, all our sins are covered, should we merely 'accept'. I'd wager last-minute convert to Christ (say, as a plane is falling) wouldn't have time to 'turn from evil'.

So you consider G-d's original (OLD) Testament bible 'USELESS' when determinnig attonement for one's sin.

I wonder if you feel that G-d just gave man a path for living a righteous life and He would consider your belief that His work was useless as it gave CLEARLY the way for man to seek atonement through your own gift of 'freewill.'

He will be glad to hear that you straightened Him out....

But you must remember, if you can discount G-d's original Bible then the New Tesatment has also become USELESS now that Jesus gave a new bible to his Latter Day Saints Church.

As you convert to Christ in (a falling plane) you immedately loose your salvation as the Creator says that anyone who accepts any foreign gods (Trinity of gods) are LOST.....

But you were born a Christian and that makes you have the only answer by virtue of your birth... D you are lost.....

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by ajwps
So you consider G-d's original (OLD) Testament bible 'USELESS' when determinnig attonement for one's sin.

Yes. The old testiment does not provide adequate means of attonement. The OT scriptures pave the way for Christ. Christ is the 'only' method which works, in seeking God's grace. Trying to find salvation thru Old Testiment rituals is as useless as leaving your 'o' out of the word 'God'.

Originally posted by ajwps
I wonder if you feel that G-d just gave man a path for living a righteous life and He would consider your belief that His work was useless as it gave CLEARLY the way for man to seek atonement through your own gift of 'freewill.'

I'm having trouble figuring out what you are asking. God's 'path' for man living a righteous life is laid out, in part, in the Bible. The single avenue of reaching or attaining forgiveness of sins, however, is thru Christ - whose message of 'salvation' is contained in the New Testiment. Does that answer what I think you are asking?

Originally posted by ajwps

He will be glad to hear that you straightened Him out....

On what? who?

Originally posted by ajwps
But you must remember, if you can discount G-d's original Bible then the New Tesatment has also become USELESS now that Jesus gave a new bible to his Latter Day Saints Church.

Who is discounting God's Bible? Jesus didn't give a new bible to anyone. In fact, I'd argue that God didn't give a 'bible' to anyone. What we have in the Bible is a collection of God-inspired text from which we can base our faith. It's not as though God put pen to paper, and delivered a 'magic book' to His chosen. For decades? More? God's people relied on spoken truths of Christ - without a bible, per se.

Originally posted by ajwps
As you convert to Christ in (a falling plane) you immedately loose your salvation as the Creator says that anyone who accepts any foreign gods (Trinity of gods) are LOST.....

What?

Originally posted by ajwps
But you were born a Christian and that makes you have the only answer by virtue of your birth...

Again...what? Nobody is born anything but into a sinful nature. We are Christ's because we chose Him. He has known, since the beginning of time WHO will choose Him. 'Knowing' something will happen does not mean 'making' something happen.

Originally posted by ajwps
D you are lost.....

Frankly, I know exactly where I am. I'm in my office, typing on a keyboard to an unknown person whom I assume is also behind a keyboard and monitor. I know my place enough, and know God enough to know it's impossible to make judgements on others' faith based on electrons forming 30? lines of text. I'm pretty good friends w/ Jesus. Maybe ask him what HE thinks about things?

'Hey Jay-Cee - How does one find you? Is it thru the rituals (animal sacrifice, Having a priest attone for the masses, etc) of the OT?'

"I am the way, the truth, and the life - No one comes to the father, except thru Me"

'Thanks - I knew you'd have the answer'

"No - I AM the answer"

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by -=d=-

Yes. The old testiment does not provide adequate means of attonement. The OT scriptures pave the way for Christ. Christ is the 'only' method which works, in seeking God's grace. Trying to find salvation thru Old Testiment rituals is as useless as leaving your 'o' out of the word 'God'.

You speak with some authority on this subject. But you are simply wrong and anything you presume is in ERROR. Christ never said in the New Testatement that came to 'replace' the Old Testament as stated for you in Matthew below.

Matthew 5

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I'm having trouble figuring out what you are asking. God's 'path' for man living a righteous life is laid out, in part, in the Bible. The single avenue of reaching or attaining forgiveness of sins, however, is thru Christ - whose message of 'salvation' is contained in the New Testiment. Does that answer what I think you are asking?

I can understand you difficulty in understanding what I state and what the original church created by Jesus Christ actually said about salvation. You are using the statements of the PRETENDER Paul of Tarsus which has made Jesus into some kind of man-god who came to the earth to save man from his sins. Jesus would be turning over in his grave if he knew what Paul created in his name. Does this answer what I think you believe to be true?

On what? who?

So you personally responsible for altering the word of G-d Almighty to fit your gauranteed free ticket to salvation. He will certainly ask you about this false concept.

Who is discounting God's Bible? Jesus didn't give a new bible to anyone. In fact, I'd argue that God didn't give a 'bible' to anyone. What we have in the Bible is a collection of God-inspired text from which we can base our faith. It's not as though God put pen to paper, and delivered a 'magic book' to His chosen. For decades? More? God's people relied on spoken truths of Christ - without a bible, per se.

It depends on which bible you consider to be G-d's own. Your arguing that G-d did not give the Bible to anyone would be saying that everything written was made up by men. How exactly do you know how G-d gave mankind His Bible. Spoken truths or as valuable as hidden lies for the spoken word of man is like the dust of the earth. Meaningless....

What?

Unfortunately accepting Jesus at the last moment of your life does not balance on the scales of infinite justice. Jesus too had to answer for his sins to the same Father that all mankind was created by. You believe in the son of god while many believe only in G-d alone. You believe in a god of creed while others believe in a G-d of deed. Do you understand the difference?

Again...what? Nobody is born anything but into a sinful nature. We are Christ's because we chose Him. He has known, since the beginning of time WHO will choose Him. 'Knowing' something will happen does not mean 'making' something happen.

Actually no one is born into anything but innocents and is perfect as the Creator of the universe does not create defective humanity. Being known from the beginning of time is quite impossible as there were billions of years in which there was no human to know the Creator. Your belief is based solely on your birth or some Christian who fed your mind with a second religion totally unrelated to the first monotheist religion of the unknownable Creator.

Frankly, I know exactly where I am. I'm in my office, typing on a keyboard to an unknown person whom I assume is also behind a keyboard and monitor. I know my place enough, and know God enough to know it's impossible to make judgements on others' faith based on electrons forming 30? lines of text. I'm pretty good friends w/ Jesus. Maybe ask him what HE thinks about things?

Frankly you have no idea where you are right now. Reality is only as you assume it exists. That is G-d's way of creating your solid reality that you think you now live in. But this fact is beyond the comprehension of most of humanity.

y Jay-Cee - How does one find you? Is it thru the rituals (animal sacrifice, Having a priest attone for the masses, etc) of the OT?'

The sacrificial atonement was not for G-d to savor but to demonstrate that His people were willing to give to Him the best of their possessions as an example of their love and fear of Him.

You are lost and you remain lost.....

am the way, the truth, and the life - No one comes to the father, except thru Me"

Wanna bet????
'Thanks - I knew you'd have the answer'

 

[dmp]

Uh - using two different User names should be against board policy...hmm...

Originally posted by Mustafa
I can understand you difficulty in understanding what I state and what the original church created by Jesus Christ actually said about salvation. You are using the statements of the PRETENDER Paul of Tarsus which has made Jesus into some kind of man-god who came to the earth to save man from his sins. Jesus would be turning over in his grave if he knew what Paul created in his name. Does this answer what I think you believe to be true??

So Paul was NOT a man of God? If you simply don't believe the New Testiment has Validity, then there is no use debating. But Christ himself said "Unless a man come thru ME, he can't find God". Not Paul. Not Mathew...Nobody but God-in-Flesh-Jesus.

You personally are responsible to altering the word of G-d Almighty to fit your free ticket to salvation. He will certainly ask you about this false concept.

Yeah - salvation thru Christ IS free. That's the beauty of it.

It depends on which bible you consider to be G-d's own. Your arguing that G-d did not give the Bible to anyone would be saying that everything written was made up by men. How exactly do you know how G-d gave mankind His Bible. Spoken truths or as valuable as hidden lies for the spoken word of man is like the dust of the earth. Meaningless....

What?

Unfortunately accepting Jesus at the last moment of your life does not balance on the scales of infinite justice. Jesus too had to answer for his sins to the same Father that all mankind was created by. You believe in the son of god while many believe only in G-d alone. You believe in a god of creed while others believe in a G-d of deed. Do you understand the difference?

Yes - it DOES balance the scales. It doesn't matter to Christ if you have accepted his 'gift' for 100 years or 10 seconds. Sincere acceptance of God's plan for salvation is all that is required.

Actually no one is born into anything but innocents and is perfect as the Creator of the universe does not create defective humanity. Being known from the beginning of time is quite impossible as there were billions of years in which there was no human to know the Creator. Your belief is based solely on your birth or some Christian who fed your mind with a second religion totally unrelated to the first monotheist religion of the unknownable Creator.

So you believe God is a liar....okay. I get you know.

Frankly you have no idea where you are right now. Reality is only as you assume it exists. That is G-d's way of creating your solid reality that you think you now live in. But this fact is beyond the comprehension of most of humanity.

Except it's EASILY within YOUR comprehension - you are so chosen/gifted of God, right? Ever seen the Matrix? That's where you are bro.

The sacrificial atonement was not for G-d to savor but to demonstrate that His people were willing to give to Him the best of their possessions as an example of their love and fear of Him.

You are lost and you remain lost....

I appreciate your concern. (shrug)

I am the way, the truth, and the life - No one comes to the father, except thru Me"
Wanna bet????

Again, since you believe Christ a liar, there's no use in further debate.

Enjoy your day.