Genocidal Mania

[Deadstick]

I didn't think they could get anymore depraved.

 

[Shusha]

I didn't think they could get anymore depraved.

Elad Barashi's post was indeed depraved and I condemn it in the strongest possible terms. But you (and the utterly despicable Owen) are committing the same moral violation as Barashi, which is to take the depraved comments of one, or a few individuals, and paint the entire society with the same color. The comments of a few individuals does not make a "genocidal mania".

 

[Deadstick]

Elad Barashi's post was indeed depraved and I condemn it in the strongest possible terms. But you (and the utterly despicable Owen) are committing the same moral violation as Barashi, which is to take the depraved comments of one, or a few individuals, and paint the entire society with the same color. The comments of a few individuals does not make a "genocidal mania".

Isn't that what you have done with the Palestinians? that guy is insane, if anyone said that about the Jewish people they would be arrested and locked up and rightly so.

 

[Shusha]

Isn't that what you have done with the Palestinians? that guy is insane, if anyone said that about the Jewish people they would be arrested and locked up and rightly so.

Yes, some are saying, "no innocents in Gaza" (I am not one of them). I find that line of thought neither helpful nor an especially moral stance to take.

Some are also saying, just yesterday on this forum, that Judaism is a disease and a psychopathy. So Pot. Kettle.

What I wish for is a return to a more rational conversation which cuts out the memes and the shortcuts and the demonizations.

 

[Shusha]

Why can't we go back to discussing actual issues instead of slinging accusations?

What would be an effective method of securing the release of the hostages?
How do we get aid to those that need it in Gaza, while preventing Hamas from using it?
How can Israel protect itself from future attacks like October 7?
What does Israel, or international governments, or agencies need to do to support Gazan self-determination or incorporation into another State?

There are so many good, relevant, productive discussions to be had.

 

[Deadstick]

Why can't we go back to discussing actual issues instead of slinging accusations?

What would be an effective method of securing the release of the hostages?
How do we get aid to those that need it in Gaza, while preventing Hamas from using it?
How can Israel protect itself from future attacks like October 7?
What does Israel, or international governments, or agencies need to do to support Gazan self-determination or incorporation into another State?

There are so many good, relevant, productive discussions to be had.

As long as Israel behaves like they have been doing with that extremist Government there could be another October 7th, this isn't just Hamas there is a general insurgency against Israel, Israel can't win unless they kill every last Palestinian and it looks like they have gone for that option.

 

[Shusha]

...this isn't just Hamas there is a general insurgency against Israel...

This is interesting. So, by "general insurgency" you mean ...? That there is a widespread threat to Israel that isn't just Hamas, but includes the general population of Gaza?

 

[Shusha]

Israel can't win unless they kill every last Palestinian ..

What do you mean by "win"? Do you mean live in peace and security with her neighbors? Are you saying that every last Palestinian is unwilling to live in peace and security with Israel and will continue to commit atrocities upon Israel forever? Do you believe that to be the reality facing Israel and the Jewish people?

 

[Deadstick]

What do you mean by "win"? Do you mean live in peace and security with her neighbors? Are you saying that every last Palestinian is unwilling to live in peace and security with Israel and will continue to commit atrocities upon Israel forever? Do you believe that to be the reality facing Israel and the Jewish people?

I am saying Israel will never have peace because of their actions like the Apartheid Regime never had peace in South Africa, Israel has attacked all it's neighbors from when it was established in 1948 you can't oppress people and expect no resistance.

 

[Deadstick]

This is interesting. So, by "general insurgency" you mean ...? That there is a widespread threat to Israel that isn't just Hamas, but includes the general population of Gaza?

It includes groups within the population just like the French resistance were.

 

[Shusha]

I am saying Israel will never have peace because of their actions like the Apartheid Regime never had peace in South Africa, Israel has attacked all it's neighbors from when it was established in 1948 you can't oppress people and expect no resistance.

This seems to be a slight dodge to the question. The question was whether or not the Arab Palestinians will accept living in peace and security with their neighbor Israel. Let's try this another way, then. Under what conditions will Palestinians live in peace and security with Israel?

Also, would you not agree that Israel has BEEN attacked by all her neighbors? (This doesn't have to be an either/or, it could be both. Just wanted to know your POV.)

 

[Shusha]

It includes groups within the population just like the French resistance were.

Not an expert on the French resistance. But you are claiming that "insurgency" within the Gazan population is more widespread than just Hamas. We agree. I think it is quite widespread throughout the general population.

What is the goal of this "insurgency", then, in your opinion?

 

[Deadstick]

This seems to be a slight dodge to the question. The question was whether or not the Arab Palestinians will accept living in peace and security with their neighbor Israel. Let's try this another way, then. Under what conditions will Palestinians live in peace and security with Israel?

Also, would you not agree that Israel has BEEN attacked by all her neighbors? (This doesn't have to be an either/or, it could be both. Just wanted to know your POV.)

They did say they would accept and live alongside Israel at Oslo, we know what happened after that, and i can't remember Israel ever being attacked they have always been the attacker.

 

[Deadstick]

Not an expert on the French resistance. But you are claiming that "insurgency" within the Gazan population is more widespread than just Hamas. We agree. I think it is quite widespread throughout the general population.

What is the goal of this "insurgency", then, in your opinion?

In a word to resist the occupation.

 

[Shusha]

They did say they would accept and live alongside Israel at Oslo, we know what happened after that...

Suicide bombings?

 

[Shusha]

In a word to resist the occupation.

How is resist the occupation different from find a peaceful and mutually acceptable end to the occupation? And where (what territory) is there occupation?

Edited to clarify: The goal isn't to perpetually resist the occupation, I assume. But to come to a conclusion concerning the occupation.

 

[Shusha]

i can't remember Israel ever being attacked they have always been the attacker.

Interesting. I'll come back to this, just to keep us on track for this thread.

 

[Deadstick]

How is resist the occupation different from find a peaceful and mutually acceptable end to the occupation? And where (what territory) is there occupation?

Edited to clarify: The goal isn't to perpetually resist the occupation, I assume. But to come to a conclusion concerning the occupation.

The West bank for a start and now the fanatics want to occupy Gaza again, also Palestinians have never had the right of return to other parts of Israel they were driven from.

 

[Shusha]

The West bank for a start and now the fanatics want to occupy Gaza again, also Palestinians have never had the right of return to other parts of Israel they were driven from.

Why was the offer for the West Bank, Gaza, parts of Jerusalem (including the Old City and the Temple Mount) refused by Arafat then? Because the "right of return" is a deal-breaker for the Palestinians?

 

[Deadstick]

Why was the offer for the West Bank, Gaza, parts of Jerusalem (including the Old City and the Temple Mount) refused by Arafat then? Because the "right of return" is a deal-breaker for the Palestinians?

Not sure that was offered, all i know is there was a deal in Oslo and it cost Rabin his life, do you really think all those colonialist settlers in the West bank will just leave?, anyway it's getting late here time for the sack.