Dugout Doug

[whitehall]

Douglas MacArthur was a hard charging WW1 officer who went on to become the senior officer "Chief of Staff" during the "peace time" of the 30's. He retired just prior to WW2 but for some reason FDR talked him into taking a reduction in rank and becoming the commander of US Troops in the area which was most likely to be the target of the Japanese attack which would ignite America's involvement in WW2. What the hell were they thinking?

 

[whitehall]

MacArthur was the commanding General of US and Philippine Troops. When the stuff hit the fan the day after Pearl Harbor MacArthur blamed subordinates and lost his entire Army. He was rescued and awarded the Medal of Honor for ....I don't know what the hell he did to justify the highest award for valor.

 

[whitehall]

MacArthur's citation for the Medal of Honor is embarrassingly short. The "valor" part seems to be where he emerged from his hole in the ground on Corrigador and shook his fist at a couple of Japanese Zero planes. The rest is padding.

 

[ginscpy]

ACCEPTED THE JAP SURRENDER ON THE USS MISSOURI AFTER THE MOST DEVASTATING WAR (and the last real one) IN HUMAN HISTORY.

Like the guy...........................

 

[whitehall]

ACCEPTED THE JAP SURRENDER ON THE USS MISSOURI AFTER THE MOST DEVASTATING WAR (and the last real one) IN HUMAN HISTORY.

Like the guy...........................

One thing about Mac, he knew the power of the press. Some say his personal press corps was bigger than a combat platoon. You forgot the dramatic movie footage of the General wading ashore in the Philippines. No doubt the guy had charisma.

 

[ginscpy]

I would rather have guys likePatton and MacAurther who played to win over guys like Westmoreland

 

[whitehall]

I would rather have guys likePatton and MacAurther who played to win over guys like Westmoreland

Ya see, in the greatest Country in the world the generals work for the civilians. LBJ created the fake crisis and set the standards for combat in VietNam. There are exceptions such as Korea. We had a president who was too timid to confront the general until it was too late. Truman allowed a possibly mentally impared elderly general to expand the mission to the breaking point. MacArthur never spent a night in Korea and relied on sycophant generals like Willoughby to feed him only information he wanted to hear. The NK invasion was probably the biggest ambush in history. Legend has it that Mac took his press corps on a plane ride to the Yalu river and pointed out how peaceful it looked. Meanwhile a division of Communist Chinese was camouflaged below. Mac finally got himself canned after he made wild threats about nuking China.

 

[whitehall]

I forgot to mention that it was US Veterans who called General MacArthur "dugout Doug". Incumbent president Harry Truman couldn't even get his own party's support for a second elected term in 1952after his inept handling of the Korean Conflict. The media still loved "give 'em hell Harry and the "old Soldier" but Americans didn't. MacArthur recieved a tickertape parade in NYC after being relieved of duty and the president who relieved him of duty was still propped up in the press (and the history books to this day. MacArthur thought he had the republican nomination for president but Korean veterans caused him to be dumped.

 

[Spoonman]

he did more with nothing than any other genral in the war. his island hoping strategy was brilliant. His landing at inchon, brilliant and the rate he reclaimed korea was incredible.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ya calling a General Dugout cause he OBEYED the Presidents personal order to leave is fair and correct.

Mac had problems and used people but he knew what he was doing. And yes he knew how to use the press. In WW2 his plans were sound.

In Korea his mouth got us in a shooting war with China. He was probably to old and should have been relieved before the war.

But the sea borne invasion was a MASTER stroke. Even after Mac was relieved the new Commander put our troops on a tight wire with no where to go against the Chinese.

Remember the Chosin Reservoir? An entire Division of Marines cut off by 9 Chinese Divisions? That was caused after Mac was gone. The Marines were ordered to advance in separate Regiments after reporting heavy Chinese Presence in the area. The Marine General and the Two Regimental commanders agreed to delay the split and make excuses to the Corps commander as to why they had not advanced in separate directions. This move is probably the ONLY reason the entire Division was not lost. Two days later the Chinese attacked in force and because both Regiments were still together they stopped the attack and managed to fight their way back to the third Regiment. The entire Division plus Army survivors managed to fight the Division out to the Coast after being written off by High Command.

 

[whitehall]

he did more with nothing than any other genral in the war. his island hoping strategy was brilliant. His landing at inchon, brilliant and the rate he reclaimed korea was incredible.

I didn't mean to say General MacArthur was an idiot. He was a hard charger in WW1 and did an apparently good job as Chief of Staff or the Army prior to WW2 even though America was almost criminally unprepared for war. It's the legend I have a problem with. Mac had such strong media support that the legend is mixed with reality. Why on earth would the retired Army Chief of Staff take a reduction in rank to be the commander of Troops most likely to be attacked by the Japanese? Because he thought he was a government envoy rather than a general in the most crucial part of American influence in the pre-war world? Mac lived in a penthouse and hob-nobbed with the Philippine aristocracy. When the dung hit the fan on Dec. 7 Mac blamed subordinates for the loss of his entire air-support parked wing to wing. Mac lost his entire Army in four months but he was rescued and awarded the Medal of Honor. His Island Hopping strategy in the Pacific was predictable and costly in American lives but resulted in the dramatic landing and his emergence as a public figure. The Inchon landing in Korea was a brilliant plan but it was overshadowed by his insane plan to invade North Korea with exhausted ill-equipped Troops in the worst time of the year in an area known for it's severe winters. Thanks to Marine heroes like General Chesty Puller and O.P. Smith the Chosin Campaign wasn't a complete disaster but the General caused a completed mission in less than a year to become a unwanted conflict with China and the loss of 35,000 Troops in three years.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hate to break it to you but the Invasion of North Korea was a complete success. The problem was Mac so scared the Chinese that the Soviets convinced them they had no chose but to attack the UN force.

China was not prepared or equipped for a war with the UN. They were only one year off securing the entire Chinese mainland. They had no money to buy weapons and ammunition. All they had was a large very experienced Army. It lacked vehicles weapons and ammunition.

The lack of rifles was so bad that part of every unit was unarmed with orders to pick up the rifle of their fallen comrades. They did not have very many crew served weapons like Machine guns and mortars either. They relied on foot and horse/mule for supply and movement. Their Air force was non existent.

Numbers was their only strong point and as would be borne out in the coming years a refusal to quit.

 

[whitehall]

Hate to break it to you but the Invasion of North Korea was a complete success. The problem was Mac so scared the Chinese that the Soviets convinced them they had no chose but to attack the UN force.

China was not prepared or equipped for a war with the UN. They were only one year off securing the entire Chinese mainland. They had no money to buy weapons and ammunition. All they had was a large very experienced Army. It lacked vehicles weapons and ammunition.

The lack of rifles was so bad that part of every unit was unarmed with orders to pick up the rifle of their fallen comrades. They did not have very many crew served weapons like Machine guns and mortars either. They relied on foot and horse/mule for supply and movement. Their Air force was non existent.

Numbers was their only strong point and as would be borne out in the coming years a refusal to quit.

America had the mission completed after the Inchon landing led to the NK being cut off and surrounded and defeated. UN (US ) Forces recaptured the SK capital and captured the NK capital of Pong Yang. North Korea was defeated. Meanwhile China was reluctant to enter the conflict and warned Truman that it would support N.K. if the Yalu was approached by UN . MacArthur disregarded the warning. You should know this Gunny, MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea. He relied on General Willoughby to push Marines beyond their supply lines and faster than O.P. Smith thought was prudent. The Army walked into the biggest ambush in history but the Marines were able to avoid being overrun. The invasion of NK was a complete disaster. It turned a victory in less than a year into a slogging truce at the cost of 35,000 American lives in three years.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hate to break it to you but the Invasion of North Korea was a complete success. The problem was Mac so scared the Chinese that the Soviets convinced them they had no chose but to attack the UN force.

China was not prepared or equipped for a war with the UN. They were only one year off securing the entire Chinese mainland. They had no money to buy weapons and ammunition. All they had was a large very experienced Army. It lacked vehicles weapons and ammunition.

The lack of rifles was so bad that part of every unit was unarmed with orders to pick up the rifle of their fallen comrades. They did not have very many crew served weapons like Machine guns and mortars either. They relied on foot and horse/mule for supply and movement. Their Air force was non existent.

Numbers was their only strong point and as would be borne out in the coming years a refusal to quit.

America had the mission completed after the Inchon landing led to the NK being cut off and surrounded and defeated. UN (US ) Forces recaptured the SK capital and captured the NK capital of Pong Yang. North Korea was defeated. Meanwhile China was reluctant to enter the conflict and warned Truman that it would support N.K. if the Yalu was approached by UN . MacArthur disregarded the warning. You should know this Gunny, MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea. He relied on General Willoughby to push Marines beyond their supply lines and faster than O.P. Smith thought was prudent. The Army walked into the biggest ambush in history but the Marines were able to avoid being overrun. The invasion of NK was a complete disaster. It turned a victory in less than a year into a slogging truce at the cost of 35,000 American lives in three years.

Mac was NOT in command when the Chinese attacked.

 

[whitehall]

Hate to break it to you but the Invasion of North Korea was a complete success. The problem was Mac so scared the Chinese that the Soviets convinced them they had no chose but to attack the UN force.

China was not prepared or equipped for a war with the UN. They were only one year off securing the entire Chinese mainland. They had no money to buy weapons and ammunition. All they had was a large very experienced Army. It lacked vehicles weapons and ammunition.

The lack of rifles was so bad that part of every unit was unarmed with orders to pick up the rifle of their fallen comrades. They did not have very many crew served weapons like Machine guns and mortars either. They relied on foot and horse/mule for supply and movement. Their Air force was non existent.

Numbers was their only strong point and as would be borne out in the coming years a refusal to quit.

America had the mission completed after the Inchon landing led to the NK being cut off and surrounded and defeated. UN (US ) Forces recaptured the SK capital and captured the NK capital of Pong Yang. North Korea was defeated. Meanwhile China was reluctant to enter the conflict and warned Truman that it would support N.K. if the Yalu was approached by UN . MacArthur disregarded the warning. You should know this Gunny, MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea. He relied on General Willoughby to push Marines beyond their supply lines and faster than O.P. Smith thought was prudent. The Army walked into the biggest ambush in history but the Marines were able to avoid being overrun. The invasion of NK was a complete disaster. It turned a victory in less than a year into a slogging truce at the cost of 35,000 American lives in three years.

Mac was NOT in command when the Chinese attacked.

Let's see Gunny, MacArthur was overall commander of US (UN Troops) until he was relieved of duty in April of 1951. The 8th Army was encircled by the Red Chinese at the Chosin Reservior November of 1950.

 

[whitehall]

There is conflicting information on whether Mac did receive permission to use nuclear weapons on Manchuria or not or whether he requested the option to use the Atomic Bomb. The Korean War scenario seems to be that MacArthur was running the show from the begining while Truman was discussing options and wondering what to do. MacArthur sent supplies to Korea from Japan on his own authority. Later on he openly criticised Truman on his foreign policy and disrespected him during the Wake Island talks. MacArthur made grand statements about the military capability of the Chinese and apparently instructed General Almond to move the Troops toward the Yalu in the late Fall in an area noted for severe winters regardless of authority from from the president. In other words MacArthur was out of control and 35,000 Americans died in the three year struggle that should have been over in six months and (listen up Gunny) the Chosin Campaign and Chesty Puller became a legend in Marine Corps History.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is conflicting information on whether Mac did receive permission to use nuclear weapons on Manchuria or not or whether he requested the option to use the Atomic Bomb. The Korean War scenario seems to be that MacArthur was running the show from the begining while Truman was discussing options and wondering what to do. MacArthur sent supplies to Korea from Japan on his own authority. Later on he openly criticised Truman on his foreign policy and disrespected him during the Wake Island talks. MacArthur made grand statements about the military capability of the Chinese and apparently instructed General Almond to move the Troops toward the Yalu in the late Fall in an area noted for severe winters regardless of authority from from the president. In other words MacArthur was out of control and 35,000 Americans died in the three year struggle that should have been over in six months and (listen up Gunny) the Chosin Campaign and Chesty Puller became a legend in Marine Corps History.

Mac was not in command when Chosin happened.

 

[whitehall]

There is conflicting information on whether Mac did receive permission to use nuclear weapons on Manchuria or not or whether he requested the option to use the Atomic Bomb. The Korean War scenario seems to be that MacArthur was running the show from the begining while Truman was discussing options and wondering what to do. MacArthur sent supplies to Korea from Japan on his own authority. Later on he openly criticised Truman on his foreign policy and disrespected him during the Wake Island talks. MacArthur made grand statements about the military capability of the Chinese and apparently instructed General Almond to move the Troops toward the Yalu in the late Fall in an area noted for severe winters regardless of authority from from the president. In other words MacArthur was out of control and 35,000 Americans died in the three year struggle that should have been over in six months and (listen up Gunny) the Chosin Campaign and Chesty Puller became a legend in Marine Corps History.

Mac was not in command when Chosin happened.

Why are you pursuing this Gunny? The Marines used to teach Military history. Certainly a Gunny should know what happened. Who was in overall command of US/UN Troops when the 8th Army was surrounded by communist troops at the Chosin? MacArthur was issuing orders to Almond and Almond was trying to force Marine General OP Smith to push his Marines faster into a trap because MacArthur said that the route to the Yalu was undefended. Americans had the mission completed in Korea after the Inchon landings, which to MacArthur's credit changed the course of the North Korean invasion. Any intelligent commander would have drawn a line from Pong Yang to Wonson harbor with winter approaching and called it a victory. The Red Chinese were not in the war until MacArthur made it clear that he was planning to march his Troops all the way to the Yalu. Did he consider that Russia was ready to enter the conflict with planes and advisors and equipment also?

 

[zzzz]

Mac did the same mistake Custer did, divide his forces in the face of the enemy and almost suffered the same fate. If the Chinese were equipped better the outcome may have horrendous for the UN. Never, NEVER, underestimate an enemy!