Ask the Agnostic-Theist: Q&A session for those of religious faith

[Aristotle]

Although I consider myself an agnostic-theist I'd like Christians or others of spiritual-religious faith to ask any questions or any debateable subjects in relation to the thread. I would also like to welcome any other agnostics whether agnostic-atheists or plain agnostics (as well as atheists) to join in. I want this section to be an understanding of why we as individual's, believe the way we do and how we see the world.

The reason why I am making this thread is because far too many Christian believers I see here in the religious section tend to assert the belief that a disbelief in their spiritual faith means atheism and I want to dispel that belief here.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would anyone assert that that means atheism?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Have you ever considered embracing an organized religion?

What turned you off if you were born a Christian?

What's the core issue you see with modern day majority religions?

Thanks......

 

[Aristotle]

Why would anyone assert that that means atheism?

Looking at various threads, any criticism of Christianity or in particular Catholicism (based on the recent acquisition of the new pope) is seemingly label "atheist mantra."

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would anyone assert that that means atheism?

Looking at various threads, any criticism of Christianity or in particular Catholicism (based on the recent acquisition of the new pope) is seemingly label "atheist mantra."

That's the dumbest thing ive heard today.

And i dont mean what you are saying but that anyone would say that.

 

[Aristotle]

Have you ever considered embracing an organized religion?

What turned you off if you were born a Christian?

What's the core issue you see with modern day majority religions?

Thanks......

Good question....

I was raised baptist Christian, like most blacks especially those that come from the south and head back to the west. I grew up in the church. I was very religious and "felt a connection with God." Then as I got older, for example graduating and heading to college I began diversifying myself by reading various text (I grew to love Islamic philosophy-Kalam) and even started going to mosques and watching Jummah prayers. At this point I started turning away from Christianity because Islam seemed so much simpler such as the belief in one God, a love for all the prophets etc.

At that point I turned away from Christianity and started getting more involved in Islam. Long story short, I never truly converted because I started having doubts. I noticed in Jummah, most of the Arabs congregated with Arabs. Africans with Africans, and Americans just congregated with everyone else. I than began to question why God "Lord of all the worlds" would send someone to hell over a belief. When I asked others about the cultural aspect of ethnic groups congregating with those of similar ethnic background. I was told that was "Islamic culture." I then began losing interest. Not just because of philosophical issues with Islam but with the cultural issues.

I personally feel I shouldn't have to speak Arabic to have a connection with God. Thus I found Islam no different than Christianity and Judaism because those faiths belong to cultures I was neither raised, nor apart of.

My issue with religions of today is not so much the positive messages but how the members portray the message of the faith. The idea of "trying to save my soul from hell" is an insulting idea. For one, there is this preconceived notion that my soul is corrupt because of my lack of belief in an organized faith. To me its a demeaning thing to assume that my soul is corrupt and the need for me to be "saved." I believe the message that is missed which Muhammad, Jesus and Moses taught that many people of these Abrahamic faiths miss is that in these respective faiths, God is more concerned about how we treat each other and how we grow as individuals. I personally feel that what we lack in faith will be known to us when we die whether there is a God or not.

 

[Aristotle]

Why would anyone assert that that means atheism?

Looking at various threads, any criticism of Christianity or in particular Catholicism (based on the recent acquisition of the new pope) is seemingly label "atheist mantra."

That's the dumbest thing ive heard today.

And i dont mean what you are saying but that anyone would say that.

New Pope seeks to heal divisions in Latin America
By Nick Caistor Latin America analys @ BBC News - New Pope seeks to heal divisions in Latin America

The athiests want to paint him as evil as possible but they can't do so as the truth comes out.

Now in my opinion on the above why would this person think just atheists would consider this person evil? I mean what if agnostics or just pure skeptics may not like this person?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Have you ever considered embracing an organized religion?

What turned you off if you were born a Christian?

What's the core issue you see with modern day majority religions?

Thanks......

Good question....

I was raised baptist Christian, like most blacks especially those that come from the south and head back to the west. I grew up in the church. I was very religious and "felt a connection with God." Then as I got older, for example graduating and heading to college I began diversifying myself by reading various text (I grew to love Islamic philosophy-Kalam) and even started going to mosques and watching Jummah prayers. At this point I started turning away from Christianity because Islam seemed so much simpler such as the belief in one God, a love for all the prophets etc.

At that point I turned away from Christianity and started getting more involved in Islam. Long story short, I never truly converted because I started having doubts. I noticed in Jummah, most of the Arabs congregated with Arabs. Africans with Africans, and Americans just congregated with everyone else. I than began to question why God "Lord of all the worlds" would send someone to hell over a belief. When I asked others about the cultural aspect of ethnic groups congregating with those of similar ethnic background. I was told that was "Islamic culture." I then began losing interest. Not just because of philosophical issues with Islam but with the cultural issues.

I personally feel I shouldn't have to speak Arabic to have a connection with God. Thus I found Islam no different than Christianity and Judaism because those faiths belong to cultures I was neither raised, nor apart of.

My issue with religions of today is not so much the positive messages but how the members portray the message of the faith. The idea of "trying to save my soul from hell" is an insulting idea. For one, there is this preconceived notion that my soul is corrupt because of my lack of belief in an organized faith. To me its a demeaning thing to assume that my soul is corrupt and the need for me to be "saved." I believe the message that is missed which Muhammad, Jesus and Moses taught that many people of these Abrahamic faiths miss is that in these respective faiths, God is more concerned about how we treat each other and how we grow as individuals. I personally feel that what we lack in faith will be known to us when we die whether there is a God or not.

I'm sorry to hear about that, but it's more to do with today's society that people are in clans or clicks. It's unfortunate but it's something to do with the modern society. Here in Michigan we have a very diverse community. With Africans, African Americans, Pakistanis, Asians, whites, Arabs. And just to note, the first Imam in Islamic history was a black slave that was freed by Muhammad known as Belal. He did that athaan(call to prayer). That's not Islamic culture. I'm not sure who told you that, but the community here is under educated. You go to several places in the Middle East and you will notice how behind some people are here in understandings, Islamic manners, ethics, and basic knowledge even. I travel often overseas and that's why I stick to being who I am and I grew knowing Arabic that way. I agree with your last sentence in some ways but you're seeing the wrong people. Now, the Arabic, you don't need to know the full language. But it's essential to learn the Quran and to speak basic manners to fellow Muslims. Which you probably can easily learn, such as Salaam(peace upon you) and AlhamdlilLah, etc... That's why it's stressed. The Quran will lead you to learn classic Arabic, just always try reading brother. And it will come to you without you knowing it. I read about 10 pages a day to get a better understanding and connection to it. It gets better and better and you feel in peace after reciting it. I love your efforts for going to Jummah(Friday prayer/speech/meeting). That's impressive for a beginner. But I hope you find it more for yourself and not about people. Sometimes I go to a mosque and I know people there but I don't talk to anyone. I go for my own seeking and good. Texas also has one of our most organized communities. Also diverse. If I would be glad to answer your questions anyways. I do hope you might rethink again. It's hard to pull out of your mindset, but it can happen. I know converts that went exactly like you. One of them was annoyed of pressure from his community so I don't know where he's at now. But I tried what I could.

 

[Mr. H.]

If we as individuals paid heed to the 10 Commandments it would be a better world indeed.
Simple, to the point. No Church required. No collective.

Born and raised Roman Catholic- haven't been to Mass in over 20 years.

About 30 years ago I was witness to a miracle sent to me by the mother of Christ. Long story, but it did happen and on numerous occasions. Others might take that as a springboard to build a magnificent structure and lure a congregation with big pockets, but I've sat on it privately. It's mine to share on occasion.

It all comes down to respect for one another. No biggie.

 

[BreezeWood]

Aristotle: I personally feel that what we lack in faith will be known to us when we die whether there is a God or not.

... whether there is a God or not

10/4 -

... will be known to us when we die - except for admission to the Everlasting, it must be learned / known while still alive, before the body perishes ...



where did you come from - what designed your DNA ?

 

[Katzndogz]

I was not born a Christian. I came from an agnostic/atheist family. I didn't become a Christian until I was in my 40s. I know what agnostics and atheists think. I just don't care to hear more of it. Non believers never discuss, nor do they debate. They lecture and if you don't agree with them, they ridicule. What they don't recognize is that it takes just as much faith, or even more faith, to not believe in God, than it does to believe in God.

 

[Avatar4321]

My issue with religions of today is not so much the positive messages but how the members portray the message of the faith. The idea of "trying to save my soul from hell" is an insulting idea. For one, there is this preconceived notion that my soul is corrupt because of my lack of belief in an organized faith. To me its a demeaning thing to assume that my soul is corrupt and the need for me to be "saved." I believe the message that is missed which Muhammad, Jesus and Moses taught that many people of these Abrahamic faiths miss is that in these respective faiths, God is more concerned about how we treat each other and how we grow as individuals. I personally feel that what we lack in faith will be known to us when we die whether there is a God or not.

So in other words, your obstacle is pride.

Tell me, how do you know what God is concerned about if you don't go to Him and learn from Him directly?

And why should we wait until we die to find out?

 

[Ancient lion]

why atheists go to the church ?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Although I consider myself an agnostic-theist I'd like Christians or others of spiritual-religious faith to ask any questions or any debateable subjects in relation to the thread. I would also like to welcome any other agnostics whether agnostic-atheists or plain agnostics (as well as atheists) to join in. I want this section to be an understanding of why we as individual's, believe the way we do and how we see the world.

The reason why I am making this thread is because far too many Christian believers I see here in the religious section tend to assert the belief that a disbelief in their spiritual faith means atheism and I want to dispel that belief here.

Why should anyone take your intent to discuss belief seriously after your long history of attacking people based on what you assume their beliefs are?

 

[Foxfyre]

I wonder why an "Agnostic Theist" would CARE what anybody else thinks or wonders about his/her religious beliefs?

I wonder why so many "Agnostic Theists" are so spiteful, dismissive, accusatory, ridiculing, hateful, and punative when it comes to allowing people of different faiths, most especially Christians, to profess and practice and celebrate their religious beliefs?

I wonder what great achievements for the benefit of others can be pointed to by "Agnostic Theists" in the name of Agnosticism or Atheism? Hospitals? Institutions of Higher Learning? Orphanages? Leper colonies? Soup kitchens/homeless shelters/other ministry to the homeless? Selfless and tireless work for little or no reward among some of the world's most poor and desperate peoples?

I wonder why all nations who have made Atheism the official policy of the nation since the opening of the 20th Century have been some of the most restrictive of human rights, the most oppressive, the most brutal, the most invasive of nations?

If 'by their fruit ye shall know them' is to be taken seriously, then these are all serious questions.

 

[Hollie]

Show of hands, ("cybernetically" speaking). How many of the Christians in this thread are Christian for no reason other than that was the religion of their parents?

Here's a question: had you been born and raised in the islamist middle east or in India, isn't it likely, overwhelmingly so, that you would bc a devout Moslem or Hindu, respectively?

Come on. Be honest. The demographics speak for themselves. People rarely make a considered choice about their religious beliefs. Overwhelmingly. people simply accept the religion of their family and/or the religion that is predominant in their particular geographic location.

 

[Foxfyre]

Show of hands, ("cybernetically" speaking). How many of the Christians in this thread are Christian for no reason other than that was the religion of their parents?

Here's a question: had you been born and raised in the islamist middle east or in India, isn't it likely, overwhelmingly so, that you would bc a devout Moslem or Hindu, respectively?

Come on. Be honest. The demographics speak for themselves. People rarely make a considered choice about their religious beliefs. Overwhelmingly. people simply accept the religion of their family and/or the religion that is predominant in their particular geographic location.

I can honestly say I did my damndest to chuck my Christian upbringing and declare it as erroneous as all other religions. I spent most of two decades in intense study and research in the attempt and looked in depth at all the world's great religions and more than a few of the more obscure ones.

In the end I arrived at a truth I could neither explain away or deny and I remain a Christian.

The thing is, because I lived in a nation that was founded on Christian values and principles but that allowed me absolute freedom to research, explore, learn, and express my questions, beliefs, and convictions with impunity, I was able to do that. In so many places in the world, including those in which Atheism is the policy of the nation (as well as one or two others), I would not have been allowed to do that.

 

[Aristotle]

Have you ever considered embracing an organized religion?

What turned you off if you were born a Christian?

What's the core issue you see with modern day majority religions?

Thanks......

Good question....

I was raised baptist Christian, like most blacks especially those that come from the south and head back to the west. I grew up in the church. I was very religious and "felt a connection with God." Then as I got older, for example graduating and heading to college I began diversifying myself by reading various text (I grew to love Islamic philosophy-Kalam) and even started going to mosques and watching Jummah prayers. At this point I started turning away from Christianity because Islam seemed so much simpler such as the belief in one God, a love for all the prophets etc.

At that point I turned away from Christianity and started getting more involved in Islam. Long story short, I never truly converted because I started having doubts. I noticed in Jummah, most of the Arabs congregated with Arabs. Africans with Africans, and Americans just congregated with everyone else. I than began to question why God "Lord of all the worlds" would send someone to hell over a belief. When I asked others about the cultural aspect of ethnic groups congregating with those of similar ethnic background. I was told that was "Islamic culture." I then began losing interest. Not just because of philosophical issues with Islam but with the cultural issues.

I personally feel I shouldn't have to speak Arabic to have a connection with God. Thus I found Islam no different than Christianity and Judaism because those faiths belong to cultures I was neither raised, nor apart of.

My issue with religions of today is not so much the positive messages but how the members portray the message of the faith. The idea of "trying to save my soul from hell" is an insulting idea. For one, there is this preconceived notion that my soul is corrupt because of my lack of belief in an organized faith. To me its a demeaning thing to assume that my soul is corrupt and the need for me to be "saved." I believe the message that is missed which Muhammad, Jesus and Moses taught that many people of these Abrahamic faiths miss is that in these respective faiths, God is more concerned about how we treat each other and how we grow as individuals. I personally feel that what we lack in faith will be known to us when we die whether there is a God or not.

I'm sorry to hear about that, but it's more to do with today's society that people are in clans or clicks. It's unfortunate but it's something to do with the modern society. Here in Michigan we have a very diverse community. With Africans, African Americans, Pakistanis, Asians, whites, Arabs. And just to note, the first Imam in Islamic history was a black slave that was freed by Muhammad known as Belal. He did that athaan(call to prayer). That's not Islamic culture. I'm not sure who told you that, but the community here is under educated. You go to several places in the Middle East and you will notice how behind some people are here in understandings, Islamic manners, ethics, and basic knowledge even. I travel often overseas and that's why I stick to being who I am and I grew knowing Arabic that way. I agree with your last sentence in some ways but you're seeing the wrong people. Now, the Arabic, you don't need to know the full language. But it's essential to learn the Quran and to speak basic manners to fellow Muslims. Which you probably can easily learn, such as Salaam(peace upon you) and AlhamdlilLah, etc... That's why it's stressed. The Quran will lead you to learn classic Arabic, just always try reading brother. And it will come to you without you knowing it. I read about 10 pages a day to get a better understanding and connection to it. It gets better and better and you feel in peace after reciting it. I love your efforts for going to Jummah(Friday prayer/speech/meeting). That's impressive for a beginner. But I hope you find it more for yourself and not about people. Sometimes I go to a mosque and I know people there but I don't talk to anyone. I go for my own seeking and good. Texas also has one of our most organized communities. Also diverse. If I would be glad to answer your questions anyways. I do hope you might rethink again. It's hard to pull out of your mindset, but it can happen. I know converts that went exactly like you. One of them was annoyed of pressure from his community so I don't know where he's at now. But I tried what I could.

Right.

Let me clarify in addition, that what I experience I know it isn't "true Islam" just as what we see on CNN or other news media outlets that the actions of a few are not a representation of the many. the unfortunate part about my case is, all I have to see in the examples of religious institutions are the people especially if I myself, am ignorant in the spiritual and religious understanding. But as you've stated it may be due to the community here and not so much as the international religious community. Nonetheless despite my personal feelings with Islam, Judaism and Christianity, I still have a love for their respective philosophies regarding God and the world. In actuality I blame Spinoza, Averroes (Ibn-Rushd) and Thomas Aquinas for making me an agnostic-theist

 

[Aristotle]

If we as individuals paid heed to the 10 Commandments it would be a better world indeed.
Simple, to the point. No Church required. No collective.

Born and raised Roman Catholic- haven't been to Mass in over 20 years.

About 30 years ago I was witness to a miracle sent to me by the mother of Christ. Long story, but it did happen and on numerous occasions. Others might take that as a springboard to build a magnificent structure and lure a congregation with big pockets, but I've sat on it privately. It's mine to share on occasion.

It all comes down to respect for one another. No biggie.

So you've experienced an apparition?

 

[Aristotle]

Aristotle: I personally feel that what we lack in faith will be known to us when we die whether there is a God or not.

... whether there is a God or not

10/4 -

... will be known to us when we die - except for admission to the Everlasting, it must be learned / known while still alive, before the body perishes ...



where did you come from - what designed your DNA ?

What designed my DNA?

Well I can say the collective DNA of both my mother and my father. Where exactly are you going with this?