27 years ago today

Little-Acorn

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On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.
 
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Reagan's military buildup scared the shit out of all of us but dammit if he didn't turn out to be right.
I didn't vote for him then but I would in heartbeat now if it was possible.
 
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The main reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

Causes of Soviet Collapse

Stagnating Economy: The Soviet Union had grown to a size large enough to the point where it became cumbersome to continue state planning. The massive and intricate Soviet economy became too large to manage by state planners, who were unwilling to enable more autonomy at mid-managerial level to remain responsive down to a localized level. This resulted in failed economic policies (failure to respond timely to continuous changes), while thwarting innovation. Managers commonly fudged numbers to show that quotas and goals were being met.

Afghanistan Quagmire: The Soviet-friendly Afghan government was threatened by anti-communist insurgents, which grew to outnumber the Afghanistan army. The USSR supplied tens of thousands of troops and war machines. However, support transformed into an invasion followed by occupation of various cities and towns, bogging the Soviets down into a guerilla war with an increasingly growing and zealous Afghan resistance movement. By the time of the Soviet withdrawal from 1987-89, nothing concrete had been gained, and the USSR left damaged and humiliated.

Perestroika: Refers to economic reforms enacted by Gorbachev in 1987, in an attempt to reverse the Soviet Union's sliding economy. Some free market elements were added, but not enough to bring about reform. The free-market policies were enough to result in failed businesses, but shortages became common as price controls were kept in place. With price ceilings limiting profits, the incentive to produce sufficient quantities was removed.

Decentralization: When the Soviet Union did allow individual republics more autonomy, tax revenues were withheld.

Glasnost: With the Soviet public becoming more disenchanted with their secretive government, Gorbachev attempted to compensate by committing to openness and transparency with the media. However, this backfired as the public learned of long-standing political cover ups revealing past and recent atrocities, missteps by leadership, social and health failures of the USSR and the true extent of national economic problems. This further eroded support for the regime.

Cherynobyl Disaster: The nuclear power plant accident in the Ukraine town of Cherynobyl. It was initially covered up by the Soviet government, compounding the health crisis, while further sowing the seeds of distrust within the constituency, as the extent of the disaster and the cover-up came to light.

Local Nationalism: With declining public perception of the Soviet government (due to political blunders), nationalism grew within each of the individual republics, creating independence ambitions in republics such as Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Lack of Economic Incentives: The state-planned economic system did not provide sufficient incentives to encourage innovation and ambitious productivity.

Excessive Military Focus: The USSR was overly-focused on military build-up, neglecting domestic troubles that would play a major role in bringing down the USSR. This was largely due to the perceived need to keep pace with the massive U.S. military build up.

Reduced Motivation of Fear: Friendlier relations with the U.S. in the 70s, 80s meant that the general public was no longer completely motivated to strengthen itself against the American threat.

Ethnic Fragmentation: The USSR used “Slav Nation/Pride” propaganda as justification in creating a unified Slav state. However, Russia was clearly the favored and dominant state, while others (including Turkish/Central Asian constituents) were oppressed. Russians clearly viewed themselves as superior, despite asking client states to buy into Slav unity/patriotism/pride, which became a transparent effort to draw other Slav nations in under a false romantic ideal. As a result, non-Russians were quick to separate from the Soviet Union when it entered troubled waters.
Causes of the Collapse of the Soviet Union
 
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On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."
 
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."

Reagan is not responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is not something to give him credit for; it was a much more complex situation than just involved the US. We are not the center of the universe.
 
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."


Exactly !
:lmao:
 
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The main reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

Causes of Soviet Collapse

Stagnating Economy: The Soviet Union had grown to a size large enough to the point where it became cumbersome to continue state planning. The massive and intricate Soviet economy became too large to manage by state planners, who were unwilling to enable more autonomy at mid-managerial level to remain responsive down to a localized level. This resulted in failed economic policies (failure to respond timely to continuous changes), while thwarting innovation. Managers commonly fudged numbers to show that quotas and goals were being met.

Afghanistan Quagmire: The Soviet-friendly Afghan government was threatened by anti-communist insurgents, which grew to outnumber the Afghanistan army. The USSR supplied tens of thousands of troops and war machines. However, support transformed into an invasion followed by occupation of various cities and towns, bogging the Soviets down into a guerilla war with an increasingly growing and zealous Afghan resistance movement. By the time of the Soviet withdrawal from 1987-89, nothing concrete had been gained, and the USSR left damaged and humiliated.

Perestroika: Refers to economic reforms enacted by Gorbachev in 1987, in an attempt to reverse the Soviet Union's sliding economy. Some free market elements were added, but not enough to bring about reform. The free-market policies were enough to result in failed businesses, but shortages became common as price controls were kept in place. With price ceilings limiting profits, the incentive to produce sufficient quantities was removed.

Decentralization: When the Soviet Union did allow individual republics more autonomy, tax revenues were withheld.

Glasnost: With the Soviet public becoming more disenchanted with their secretive government, Gorbachev attempted to compensate by committing to openness and transparency with the media. However, this backfired as the public learned of long-standing political cover ups revealing past and recent atrocities, missteps by leadership, social and health failures of the USSR and the true extent of national economic problems. This further eroded support for the regime.

Cherynobyl Disaster: The nuclear power plant accident in the Ukraine town of Cherynobyl. It was initially covered up by the Soviet government, compounding the health crisis, while further sowing the seeds of distrust within the constituency, as the extent of the disaster and the cover-up came to light.

Local Nationalism: With declining public perception of the Soviet government (due to political blunders), nationalism grew within each of the individual republics, creating independence ambitions in republics such as Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Lack of Economic Incentives: The state-planned economic system did not provide sufficient incentives to encourage innovation and ambitious productivity.

Excessive Military Focus: The USSR was overly-focused on military build-up, neglecting domestic troubles that would play a major role in bringing down the USSR. This was largely due to the perceived need to keep pace with the massive U.S. military build up.

Reduced Motivation of Fear: Friendlier relations with the U.S. in the 70s, 80s meant that the general public was no longer completely motivated to strengthen itself against the American threat.

Ethnic Fragmentation: The USSR used “Slav Nation/Pride” propaganda as justification in creating a unified Slav state. However, Russia was clearly the favored and dominant state, while others (including Turkish/Central Asian constituents) were oppressed. Russians clearly viewed themselves as superior, despite asking client states to buy into Slav unity/patriotism/pride, which became a transparent effort to draw other Slav nations in under a false romantic ideal. As a result, non-Russians were quick to separate from the Soviet Union when it entered troubled waters.
Causes of the Collapse of the Soviet Union


TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."

She came up with detailed analysis; you came up with two lines from a speech and a post hoc fallacy. Hers had eleven points of interrelated detailed reasoning; you eliminated that from the quote altogether and called her a liar without coming up with a single refutation of a single point.

Guess who just lost by a score of 11 to nothing. :itsok:
 
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The collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."

Reagan is not responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is not something to give him credit for; it was a much more complex situation than just involved the US. We are not the center of the universe.

Fact:

Reagan ordered a massive military buildup in an arms race with the USSR. USSR also increased its military spending resulting in a collapse of its economy.
 
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The main reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

More dishonest revisionist crock of left wing propagated bullshit. Which college professor brainwashed you into that crocK?
I was there. I saw what happened. You're a dangerous fool!
I play music through tube amplifiers. You know where the most recently manufactured tubes were created? The USSR. They were that far behind due to economic stifling of creative advancement. But the tubes sound great in guitar amps. Until the AGW agenda that you no doubt support like a moron makes them illegal, too, like they did with incandescent light bulbs.
With all due respect, you're a moron.
 
In addition to President Ronald Reagan, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II had pivotal roles in the collapse of the Soviet Union.
 
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The main reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

More dishonest revisionist crock of left wing propagated bullshit. Which college professor brainwashed you into that crocK?
I was there. I saw what happened. You're a dangerous fool!
I play music through tube amplifiers. You know where the most recently manufactured tubes were created? The USSR. They were that far behind due to economic stifling of creative advancement. But the tubes sound great in guitar amps. Until the AGW agenda that you no doubt support like a moron makes them illegal, too, like they did with incandescent light bulbs.
With all due respect, you're a moron.

And all of that has nothing to do with Reagan. Your entire rant only proves what is said in the analysis which I posted. And, btw, someone who arbitrarily calls other posters names loses from the get go. If all you can do is call people names, you are the loser.
 
Even Gorbachev admitted it.

General Secretary Gorbachev said of his former rival's Cold War role: "Reagan was the man who was instrumental in bringing about the end of the Cold War."
 
In addition to President Ronald Reagan, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II had pivotal roles in the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I lived in Germany during that era. I think, perhaps, if you speak to Germans, you will find that it is not their impression that tearing down the Berlin Wall had much to do with Reagan, Thatcher or the Pope. And if you speak to people from former Soviet satelite states, you will also find it is not their belief that the US, the UK, or the Pope were of that much influence or importance in the break down of the Soviet Union.
 
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Even Gorbachev admitted it.

General Secretary Gorbachev said of his former rival's Cold War role: "Reagan was the man who was instrumental in bringing about the end of the Cold War."

And he was almost instantly run out of town by the people once the Soviet Union had collapsed. His vision was obviously not the vision of the people.
 
In addition to President Ronald Reagan, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II had pivotal roles in the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I lived in Germany during that era. I think, perhaps, if you speak to Germans, you will find that it is not their impression that tearing down the Berlin Wall had much to do with Reagan, Thatcher or the Pope. And if you speak to people from former Soviet satelite states, you will also find it is not their belief that the US, the UK, or the Pope were of that much influence or importance in the break dwon fo the Soviet Union.

Well of course not.
They would never admit it.
Hard line Political Ideology blinds viewpoints.
 
In addition to President Ronald Reagan, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II had pivotal roles in the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I lived in Germany during that era. I think, perhaps, if you speak to Germans, you will find that it is not their impression that tearing down the Berlin Wall had much to do with Reagan, Thatcher or the Pope. And if you speak to people from former Soviet satelite states, you will also find it is not their belief that the US, the UK, or the Pope were of that much influence or importance in the break dwon fo the Soviet Union.

Well of course not.
They would never admit it.
Hard line Political Ideology blinds viewpoints.

"Don't listen to them, they don't know what they think! *I* know what they think!"

:rofl:

See also "when I want your opinion I'll give it to you!"
 
15th post
On June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, after building up the U.S. armed forces enough to get Russia to pay attention, stood before the Berlin Wall and said:

"There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

"Secretary General Gorbachev, if you seek peace--if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe--if you seek liberalization: come here, to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."


A few years later, the government of the Soviet Union collapsed, freeing more people than any single event in world history since the Battle of Leyte Gulf in WWII. And the Berlin Wall was torn down. It was the most earth-shaking transformation in many people's living memory.

The main reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

Causes of Soviet Collapse

Stagnating Economy: The Soviet Union had grown to a size large enough to the point where it became cumbersome to continue state planning. The massive and intricate Soviet economy became too large to manage by state planners, who were unwilling to enable more autonomy at mid-managerial level to remain responsive down to a localized level. This resulted in failed economic policies (failure to respond timely to continuous changes), while thwarting innovation. Managers commonly fudged numbers to show that quotas and goals were being met.

Afghanistan Quagmire: The Soviet-friendly Afghan government was threatened by anti-communist insurgents, which grew to outnumber the Afghanistan army. The USSR supplied tens of thousands of troops and war machines. However, support transformed into an invasion followed by occupation of various cities and towns, bogging the Soviets down into a guerilla war with an increasingly growing and zealous Afghan resistance movement. By the time of the Soviet withdrawal from 1987-89, nothing concrete had been gained, and the USSR left damaged and humiliated.

Perestroika: Refers to economic reforms enacted by Gorbachev in 1987, in an attempt to reverse the Soviet Union's sliding economy. Some free market elements were added, but not enough to bring about reform. The free-market policies were enough to result in failed businesses, but shortages became common as price controls were kept in place. With price ceilings limiting profits, the incentive to produce sufficient quantities was removed.

Decentralization: When the Soviet Union did allow individual republics more autonomy, tax revenues were withheld.

Glasnost: With the Soviet public becoming more disenchanted with their secretive government, Gorbachev attempted to compensate by committing to openness and transparency with the media. However, this backfired as the public learned of long-standing political cover ups revealing past and recent atrocities, missteps by leadership, social and health failures of the USSR and the true extent of national economic problems. This further eroded support for the regime.

Cherynobyl Disaster: The nuclear power plant accident in the Ukraine town of Cherynobyl. It was initially covered up by the Soviet government, compounding the health crisis, while further sowing the seeds of distrust within the constituency, as the extent of the disaster and the cover-up came to light.

Local Nationalism: With declining public perception of the Soviet government (due to political blunders), nationalism grew within each of the individual republics, creating independence ambitions in republics such as Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Lack of Economic Incentives: The state-planned economic system did not provide sufficient incentives to encourage innovation and ambitious productivity.

Excessive Military Focus: The USSR was overly-focused on military build-up, neglecting domestic troubles that would play a major role in bringing down the USSR. This was largely due to the perceived need to keep pace with the massive U.S. military build up.

Reduced Motivation of Fear: Friendlier relations with the U.S. in the 70s, 80s meant that the general public was no longer completely motivated to strengthen itself against the American threat.

Ethnic Fragmentation: The USSR used “Slav Nation/Pride” propaganda as justification in creating a unified Slav state. However, Russia was clearly the favored and dominant state, while others (including Turkish/Central Asian constituents) were oppressed. Russians clearly viewed themselves as superior, despite asking client states to buy into Slav unity/patriotism/pride, which became a transparent effort to draw other Slav nations in under a false romantic ideal. As a result, non-Russians were quick to separate from the Soviet Union when it entered troubled waters.
Causes of the Collapse of the Soviet Union
You can believe that if it makes you feel better.
Considering the source of the opinion piece you so proudly bestowed upon us, it is now known that you are indeed a far left partisan and most likely would welcome Soviet Style socialism here.
 
The collapse of the Soviet Union didn't have anything to do with Reagan or the military build up of the US. :rolleyes:

TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."

Reagan is not responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is not something to give him credit for; it was a much more complex situation than just involved the US. We are not the center of the universe.

That's YOUR opinion. The facts state otherwise.
You may have your own viewpoint. You may not create your own reality.
 
TRANSLATION: "If I can't refute what Reagan did, I'll lie about it instead."

Reagan is not responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is not something to give him credit for; it was a much more complex situation than just involved the US. We are not the center of the universe.

Fact:

Reagan ordered a massive military buildup in an arms race with the USSR. USSR also increased its military spending resulting in a collapse of its economy.

That was a little external push that hastened the collapse.

The main reason the Soviet government fell, was its people's disgust over the continued failure of its socialist economy, the continued lies of the administration telling them that it was all someone else's fault, and the lure of freedom they were seeing from more prosperous countries such as the U.S.

When the USSR started trying (for the umpteenth time) to match the U.S. in military capability, that put even more pressure on an already badly strained Soviet economy. The Soviet people were noticing more and more that, while building a better and more capable military, the U.S. was also increasing its prosperity and providing for its people better... AND they noticed that a lot of that was coming from a government that was allowing its own people more and more freedom from government restriction and taxation. The levels of restriction and taxation in America were nowhere near those in the Soviet Union, yet the country was doing better. The Soviet people drew the obvious (and correct) conclusion. This was another little push, among many, toward their eventual decision to dump their failed form of government.

To say that Reagan had nothing to do with the collapse of the USSR, is like sayng yesterday's rainstorm had nothing to do with today's flood. It's not the only cause, but it is one of many important causes.
 
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