You guys realize that Obama and Romney will both promote more government control

[LibertyLemming]

I'm not the government and I'm quite aware but the government is an elected representation of the citizens. One consents to the government by joining a state, or being born into it but not leaving it as an adult.

I'm the biggest advocate of liberty you'll find and I am in the same boat you are regarding paying taxes and offering consent as a result. Oh well, not leaving.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm not the government and I'm quite aware but the government is an elected representation of the citizens. One consents to the government by joining a state, or being born into it but not leaving it as an adult.

I'm the biggest advocate of liberty you'll find and I am in the same boat you are regarding paying taxes and offering consent as a result. Oh well, not leaving.

No, one does not consent to the government simply by living within arbitrarily defined lines on a map. The biggest advocate of liberty that I could find certainly wouldn't make such a statist argument.

 

[Wiseacre]

If a thief steals my money am I then responsible for what they do with it?

You kinda are if you elected the thief in the first place.

Who did I elect?

It's kind of a collective you.

 

[copsnrobbers]

We really are fucked up these days.

What should we do?

 

[Avatar4321]

No difference whatsoever? Im starting to think that's the mantra of people who just dont want to do the work it takes to actually look at what someone is proposing to do.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You kinda are if you elected the thief in the first place.

Who did I elect?

It's kind of a collective you.

So not me at all then.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No difference whatsoever? Im starting to think that's the mantra of people who just dont want to do the work it takes to actually look at what someone is proposing to do.

Then you'd be wrong.

 

[LibertyLemming]

I'm not the government and I'm quite aware but the government is an elected representation of the citizens. One consents to the government by joining a state, or being born into it but not leaving it as an adult.

I'm the biggest advocate of liberty you'll find and I am in the same boat you are regarding paying taxes and offering consent as a result. Oh well, not leaving.

No, one does not consent to the government simply by living within arbitrarily defined lines on a map. The biggest advocate of liberty that I could find certainly wouldn't make such a statist argument.

Take your beef up with John Locke not with me, he said it. He was a hugest statist though so good call.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Right? They're not that different. Foreign Policy is damn near identical. Obama prefers controlling people via economics, Romney via social issues.

Not true.

Obama wants Gov't to control Industry (Communist)
Romney wants Industry to control Gov't (Facist)

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm not the government and I'm quite aware but the government is an elected representation of the citizens. One consents to the government by joining a state, or being born into it but not leaving it as an adult.

I'm the biggest advocate of liberty you'll find and I am in the same boat you are regarding paying taxes and offering consent as a result. Oh well, not leaving.

No, one does not consent to the government simply by living within arbitrarily defined lines on a map. The biggest advocate of liberty that I could find certainly wouldn't make such a statist argument.

Take your beef up with John Locke not with me, he said it. He was a hugest statist though so good call.

And is John Locke the last word on liberty, or have there been others who built upon his original ideas since then?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Right? They're not that different. Foreign Policy is damn near identical. Obama prefers controlling people via economics, Romney via social issues.

Not true.

Obama wants Gov't to control Industry (Communist)
Romney wants Industry to control Gov't (Facist)

Well technically, under communism the government is industry. Under fascism the government controls industry. Certainly no industries in Italy or Germany controlled Mussolini or Hitler.

 

[Wiseacre]

Who did I elect?

It's kind of a collective you.

So not me at all then.

Do you think it matters who voted for Hitler and who didn't? After the war, a whole lot of Germans tried to absolve themselves of any guilt by saying it wasn't me, I didn't vote for those Nazis, I didn't want to go to war. Do you think all citizens are responsible for the actions of their gov't?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's kind of a collective you.

So not me at all then.

Do you think it matters who voted for Hitler and who didn't? After the war, a whole lot of Germans tried to absolve themselves of any guilt by saying it wasn't me, I didn't vote for those Nazis, I didn't want to go to war. Do you think all citizens are responsible for the actions of their gov't?

No, I don't. I don't think any citizens are responsible for the actions of their government. You could make the case that those who voted for such and such are responsible, but it could be argued that they were simply bamboozled. How many people who originally voted for Hitler understood exactly what was going to happen? Are they then responsible? I don't think so.

 

[LibertyLemming]

No, one does not consent to the government simply by living within arbitrarily defined lines on a map. The biggest advocate of liberty that I could find certainly wouldn't make such a statist argument.

Take your beef up with John Locke not with me, he said it. He was a hugest statist though so good call.

And is John Locke the last word on liberty, or have there been others who built upon his original ideas since then?

Of course there have been other philosophers but many of them, myself included, still think his tacit consent argument is valid.

 

[Contumacious]

Right? They're not that different. Foreign Policy is damn near identical. Obama prefers controlling people via economics, Romney via social issues.

Yeah, but Romney is white.

Screwing the masses is OK if the Prez is a Republican.

Hallelujah.

.

 

[SniperFire]

I completely agree. I was just illustrating their preferred means of control.


As far as Iraq... that'll never be over, we have a massive billion dollar base there, somebody has to staff it.... heheheee

Who's we? I don't have a base anywhere.

Collective "we", the USA. If it were up to me, ***we*** wouldn't have any bases except inside our borders.

This is why you people don't matter.

 

[Wiseacre]

So not me at all then.

Do you think it matters who voted for Hitler and who didn't? After the war, a whole lot of Germans tried to absolve themselves of any guilt by saying it wasn't me, I didn't vote for those Nazis, I didn't want to go to war. Do you think all citizens are responsible for the actions of their gov't?

No, I don't. I don't think any citizens are responsible for the actions of their government. You could make the case that those who voted for such and such are responsible, but it could be argued that they were simply bamboozled. How many people who originally voted for Hitler understood exactly what was going to happen? Are they then responsible? I don't think so.

I take the opposing view, the citizenry ARE collectively responsible to be informed and involved in their gov't, and make the best decisions about who the vote for; which I suspect back then the germans did not do. In this country, the nominees are chosen in the primaries and the electees are chosen in the general elections; if a bad apple gets in there, that's on us. And if we don't kick his/her ass outta there at the first opportunity, that's on us too.

 

[Contumacious]

Who's we? I don't have a base anywhere.

Collective "we", the USA. If it were up to me, ***we*** wouldn't have any bases except inside our borders.

This is why you people don't matter.

Tell them girl.

We should invade the fuck out every countyry until our national debt is a quadrillion dollars. Hopefully when the system collapses a white dude will rule us in the name of god.

Hallelujah.

.

 

[SniperFire]

Collective "we", the USA. If it were up to me, ***we*** wouldn't have any bases except inside our borders.

This is why you people don't matter.

Tell them girl.

We should invade the fuck out every countyry until our national debt is a quadrillion dollars. Hopefully when the system collapses a white dude will rule us in the name of god.

Hallelujah.

.

That is called bifurcation - 'the all or nothing' logical fallacy used by those who are getting their asses kicked in argument.


LOL

 

[Wiseacre]

This is why you people don't matter.

Tell them girl.

We should invade the fuck out every countyry until our national debt is a quadrillion dollars. Hopefully when the system collapses a white dude will rule us in the name of god.

Hallelujah.

.

That is called bifurcation - 'the all or nothing' logical fallacy used by those who are getting their asses kicked in argument.


LOL

I think it's called bullshit. Racist bullshit even.