Would You Support The Death Penalty for White Collar Crimes?

[JBeukema]

They should be forced to labour and produce that which is necessary for their own sustenance. Their victims should not be forced to support them.

That's a great idea.

People in prison should have to work while in prison to receive anything. If they choose not to work, they will receive basic accomodations, which would include solitary confinement in a 4'x8' cell, 40 oz. water/day, and 3 cups of unflavored oatmeal/day.

If they wish to improve their existance, they can work.

but there is that sticky little thing called the US Constitution: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. "

Having to support one's self is cruel and unusual? Someone tell working America.

I call a rape victim being forced to pay for her rapist's room and board an atrocity.

 

[Bfgrn]

No...

I don't support the death penalty. I should be abolished. It costs this country billions of dollars and make our streets less safe.

The death penalty does not cost that much money---the appeals do. I wonder how much it costs to jail and put to death a convicted person in a state like Texas vs Mass.?



I don't support the death penalty myself, but I do not think the $$$$ argument has ever been a valid one.

Really??? On THIS planet?

California
Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.


Maryland
New Study Reveals Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution


Federal Costs
The average cost of defending a trial in a federal death case is $620,932, about 8 times that of a federal murder case in which the death penalty is not sought.

Washington
Report to Washington State Bar Association regarding cost

At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel. On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases. Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional $137,000 in public defense costs.


New Jersey
Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million


Tennessee
Study Finds Death penalty Costly, Ineffective

A new report released by the Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury recommended changes to the state's costly death penalty and called into question its effectiveness in preventing crime.

Death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.

Tennessee District Attorneys General are not consistent in their pursuit of the death penalty.

Surveys and interviews of district attorneys indicate that some prosecutors "use the death penalty as a 'bargaining chip' to secure plea bargains for lesser sentences."

Previous research provides no clear indication whether the death penalty acts as a method of crime prevention.

The Tennessee Court of Criminal Appeals reversed 29 percent of capital cases on direct appeal.

Although any traumatic trial may cause stress and pain for jurors, the victims' family, and the defendant's family, the pressure may be at its peak during death penalty trials. (July 2004)


Kansas
Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy

In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.

The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).

The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.

The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.


USA
Death Penalty Trials Very Costly Relative to County Budgets

Capital cases burden county budgets with large unexpected costs, according to a report released by the National Bureau of Economic Research, "The Budgetary Repercussions of Capital Convictions," by Katherine Baicker. Counties manage these high costs by decreasing funding for highways and police and by increasing taxes. The report estimates that between 1982-1997 the extra cost of capital trials was $1.6 billion.


Indiana
Total cost of Indiana's death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences


North Carolina
Death Penalty Costs North Carolina Nearly $11 Million a Year

A recent study published by a Duke University economist revealed North Carolina could save $11 million annually if it dropped the death penalty.

The two-year costs were summed up as follows:

Extra defense costs for capital cases in trial phase $13,180,385
Extra payments to jurors $224,640
Capital post-conviction costs $7,473,556
Resentencing hearings $594,216
Prison system $169,617
Total $21,642,414


North Carolina Spends More per Execution than on a Non-death Penalty Murder Case

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (. On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $1 billion spent since 1976 on the death penalty. ("The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina" Duke University, May 1993)


Florida
Florida Spends Millions Extra per Year on Death Penalty

Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole

Florida Spent Average of $3.2 Million per Execution from 1973 to 1988

During that time period, Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty to achieve 18 executions. ("Bottom Line: Life in Prison One-Sixth as Expensive," Miami Herald, July 10, 1988)


Texas
Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases

That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

 

[California Girl]

No...

I don't support the death penalty. I should be abolished. It costs this country billions of dollars and make our streets less safe.

*Emphasis mine*

You finally said something I agree with. Yes, you should be abolished.

 

[Bfgrn]

No...

I don't support the death penalty. I should be abolished. It costs this country billions of dollars and make our streets less safe.

*Emphasis mine*

You finally said something I agree with. Yes, you should be abolished.

Abolished...in what way?

 

[California Girl]

No...

I don't support the death penalty. I should be abolished. It costs this country billions of dollars and make our streets less safe.

*Emphasis mine*

You finally said something I agree with. Yes, you should be abolished.

Abolished...in what way?

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely.

You said it, I just agreed with you.

 

[Bfgrn]

*Emphasis mine*

You finally said something I agree with. Yes, you should be abolished.

Abolished...in what way?

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely.

You said it, I just agreed with you.

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely. That would mean death and then eternity in hell, is that what you wish upon me California Girl?

 

[California Girl]

Abolished...in what way?

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely.

You said it, I just agreed with you.

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely. That would mean death and then eternity in hell, is that what you wish upon me California Girl?

I didn't wish it upon you, Bfgrn. You wished it upon yourself.

 

[Bfgrn]

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely.

You said it, I just agreed with you.

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely. That would mean death and then eternity in hell, is that what you wish upon me California Girl?

I didn't wish it upon you, Bfgrn. You wished it upon yourself.

Coy, but disingenuous as usual. That is not what I wish upon myself, I simply misspelled a word.

 

[California Girl]

Abolish: To do away with, destroy completely. That would mean death and then eternity in hell, is that what you wish upon me California Girl?

I didn't wish it upon you, Bfgrn. You wished it upon yourself.

Coy, but disingenuous as usual. That is not what I wish upon myself, I simply misspelled a word.

Actually, Bf, it was just humor. I forgot you don't have that particular quality. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I want rid of you... that would be unAmerican.

 

[Bfgrn]

I didn't wish it upon you, Bfgrn. You wished it upon yourself.

Coy, but disingenuous as usual. That is not what I wish upon myself, I simply misspelled a word.

Actually, Bf, it was just humor. I forgot you don't have that particular quality. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I want rid of you... that would be unAmerican.

Of course it was. I surmised that would be your final escape...

 

[California Girl]

Coy, but disingenuous as usual. That is not what I wish upon myself, I simply misspelled a word.

Actually, Bf, it was just humor. I forgot you don't have that particular quality. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I want rid of you... that would be unAmerican.

Of course it was. I surmised that would be your final escape...

You are a humorless dipstick, Bf. I was simply pointing out, in a humorous way, your typo. That you see it as something more sinister demonstrates only your own idiocy.

 

[Bfgrn]

Actually, Bf, it was just humor. I forgot you don't have that particular quality. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I want rid of you... that would be unAmerican.

Of course it was. I surmised that would be your final escape...

You are a humorless dipstick, Bf. I was simply pointing out, in a humorous way, your typo. That you see it as something more sinister demonstrates only your own idiocy.

No, Cali gal, I have a great sense of humor. I just don't find you funny. My disdain for you is based on your ignorance and your constant display of haughtiness and narcissism.

 

[California Girl]

Of course it was. I surmised that would be your final escape...

You are a humorless dipstick, Bf. I was simply pointing out, in a humorous way, your typo. That you see it as something more sinister demonstrates only your own idiocy.

No, Cali gal, I have a great sense of humor. I just don't find you funny. My disdain for you is based on your ignorance and your constant display of haughtiness and narcissism.

Oh Nooooooo! You hate me? Damn! I'm so disappointed. I don't find you funny either.... my disdain for you is based solely on your ability to be a judgmental ass and your total inability to post original thought, relying instead on the words of others in stupid media articles (which I write so I know they're bullshit) and dumbass quotes from famous people to make yourself look smarter than you are.

 

[Bfgrn]

You are a humorless dipstick, Bf. I was simply pointing out, in a humorous way, your typo. That you see it as something more sinister demonstrates only your own idiocy.

No, Cali gal, I have a great sense of humor. I just don't find you funny. My disdain for you is based on your ignorance and your constant display of haughtiness and narcissism.

Oh Nooooooo! You hate me? Damn! I'm so disappointed. I don't find you funny either.... my disdain for you is based solely on your ability to be a judgmental ass and your total inability to post original thought, relying instead on the words of others in stupid media articles (which I write so I know they're bullshit) and dumbass quotes from famous people to make yourself look smarter than you are.

I don't hate you. I really feel sorry for you.

You are always welcome to present documentation to back up your false repudiations, but there's always that one problem...you CAN'T.

Knowledge isn't inborn or intrinsic, but intelligence is. Intelligent people like myself know how and where to find knowledge and discern fact from fiction. You don't because you CAN'T. Instead, you rely on what you FEEL, based on your inborn and intrinsic FEARS and dogma

You have yet to show ANY writing ability...

 

[California Girl]

No, Cali gal, I have a great sense of humor. I just don't find you funny. My disdain for you is based on your ignorance and your constant display of haughtiness and narcissism.

Oh Nooooooo! You hate me? Damn! I'm so disappointed. I don't find you funny either.... my disdain for you is based solely on your ability to be a judgmental ass and your total inability to post original thought, relying instead on the words of others in stupid media articles (which I write so I know they're bullshit) and dumbass quotes from famous people to make yourself look smarter than you are.

I don't hate you. I really feel sorry for you.

You are always welcome to present documentation to back up your false repudiations, but there's always that one problem...you CAN'T.

Knowledge isn't inborn or intrinsic, but intelligence is. Intelligent people like myself know how and where to find knowledge and discern fact from fiction. You don't because you CAN'T. Instead, you rely on what you FEEL, based on your inborn and intrinsic FEARS and dogma

You have yet to show ANY writing ability...

I have no writing ability? Really? Is that why YOU have previously linked to one of my articles to back up your nonsense?

 

[Bfgrn]

Oh Nooooooo! You hate me? Damn! I'm so disappointed. I don't find you funny either.... my disdain for you is based solely on your ability to be a judgmental ass and your total inability to post original thought, relying instead on the words of others in stupid media articles (which I write so I know they're bullshit) and dumbass quotes from famous people to make yourself look smarter than you are.

I don't hate you. I really feel sorry for you.

You are always welcome to present documentation to back up your false repudiations, but there's always that one problem...you CAN'T.

Knowledge isn't inborn or intrinsic, but intelligence is. Intelligent people like myself know how and where to find knowledge and discern fact from fiction. You don't because you CAN'T. Instead, you rely on what you FEEL, based on your inborn and intrinsic FEARS and dogma

You have yet to show ANY writing ability...

I have no writing ability? Really? Is that why YOU have previously linked to one of my articles to back up your nonsense?

Well, you've got me there. If you wrote it, it has to be nonsense.

But here's the other problem. I don't believe you, so you need to PROVE it...provide a link or article title. You can send it in a PM.

 

[editec]

For certain white collar crimes that would throw a whole nation's economy into crisis, would you support the death penalty? Would you support handing out the death penalty to those responsible if it could be proven that those responsible knew and didn't care---that greed overrode civic duty and fiscal responsibilities?

I believe in CORPORACIDE.

Goldman, for example, ought to be put down, its leaders stipped of their wealth and they ought to be put in prison IF, for example, this latest scandal turns out to be true.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I don't hate you. I really feel sorry for you.

You are always welcome to present documentation to back up your false repudiations, but there's always that one problem...you CAN'T.

Knowledge isn't inborn or intrinsic, but intelligence is. Intelligent people like myself know how and where to find knowledge and discern fact from fiction. You don't because you CAN'T. Instead, you rely on what you FEEL, based on your inborn and intrinsic FEARS and dogma

You have yet to show ANY writing ability...

I have no writing ability? Really? Is that why YOU have previously linked to one of my articles to back up your nonsense?

Well, you've got me there. If you wrote it, it has to be nonsense.

But here the other problem. I don't believe you, so you need to PROVE it...provide a link or article title. You can send it in a PM.

Just feed the cow a moo once in a while. california-girl: CinderFella-Boil is just grazing with her ass.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

For certain white collar crimes that would throw a whole nation's economy into crisis, would you support the death penalty? Would you support handing out the death penalty to those responsible if it could be proven that those responsible knew and didn't care---that greed overrode civic duty and fiscal responsibilities?

I believe in CORPORACIDE.

Goldman, for example, ought to be put down, its leaders stipped of their wealth and they ought to be put in prison IF, for example, this latest scandal turns out to be true.

If this latest scandal turns out to be true? Intent? Did they intend to defraud? If so fuck 'em.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

That's a great idea.

People in prison should have to work while in prison to receive anything. If they choose not to work, they will receive basic accomodations, which would include solitary confinement in a 4'x8' cell, 40 oz. water/day, and 3 cups of unflavored oatmeal/day.

If they wish to improve their existance, they can work.

but there is that sticky little thing called the US Constitution: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. "

Having to support one's self is cruel and unusual? Someone tell working America.

I call a rape victim being forced to pay for her rapist's room and board an atrocity.

solitary confinement in a 4'x8' cell, water and 3 cups of oatmeal. that could be challenged in court as an added punishment. prisons do not dictate punishment for crimes committed except for infractions of rules within. prisons carry out sentencing. prisons do not get to dictate how one is punished. courts dictate criminal sentencing.


solitary confinement as a routine punishment, could and should be by itself, be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

water and oatmeal diet is hardly nutritional, and like it or not prisoners are wards of the state.

If you want to argue how we should punish or treat criminals, I suggest you look at case law on the rights of prisoners covered by the US Constitution.


you're an idiot.like most others here, your myopic sensibilities have you reading what you want and ignoring the rest