Why you're not wealthy

[Bern80]

why? are you wealthy? you know, given that you're giving all of this advice.

Why what?

 

[Bern80]

Most people aren't wealthy for much of the same reason poor people aren't middle class.

They just don't know how.

Simple as that.

Well that and a mixture of "Rich People" skirting laws and being pretty ruthless. Take for example the moving company I use to work for..

Initially the owner paid everyone under the table, he didn't claim anything in taxes and functioned completely under the radar for the first few years. Then when he was making to much money..he claimed half the income he was getting. He was real dodgy with employees. On one job I was with..with him as the foreman..the customer gave me a washer/dryer as a tip..while giving him nothing. On the way back to the warehouse he said to me, "You know that washer/dryer is mine..right?". Later, as he became bigger, he hired ex-cons and other people down on their luck. He hired one guy who was a master carpenter..who single handedly built him a warehouse filled with storage bins. He wound up paying the guy like five dollars an hour for his work (off the books of course). As he became bigger, he did things like pay "ticket-time" to employees..which means you get the time on the billing sheet not the time you actually worked. He also started an "insurance company" to insure his own moves..meaning that he pocketed the additional insurance money. The rationale here was that if the claim was to big..he would dissolve the insurance company.

If there were a 10 year audit of this guy by the IRS..he would have been in some serious trouble.

And you want to pretend this guy is what would constitutute normal for most the wealthy?

Even if it was, what's your point? How did the way he ran his business prevent YOU from pursuing wealth?

 

[Paulie]

Most people aren't wealthy for much of the same reason poor people aren't middle class.

They just don't know how.

Simple as that.

And who is responsible for that? Evil rich people? No. They are responsible for their own fortune.... everyone is.

I agree with this about 90%.

Not everyone has the same opportunities afforded them. If you happen to be born into a financially stable, or even wealthy family, you have an advantage of maybe having a business being left to you at some point, or even something as simple as just having close family available to you that would be willing to lend you an amount of money to take a business risk of your own, where the principal received would not only be easy to come by, but also not owed back to a bank where if you were even lucky enough to receive it, you would be enslaved to them with the debt.

I'm a conservative who believes strongly in personal responsibility, but it's naive to think that every single American is born with equal opportunity.

Everyone HAS an opportunity, but the opportunity is not equal among all citizens.

 

[Toro]

I'm not wealthy because I waste too much time here.

True story.

 

[Paulie]

I'm not wealthy because I waste too much time here.

True story.

You're managing 10 figures. You could Madoff with some of that if you REALLY wanted to

 

[Granny]

It's wrong for me to use my head and think what I want to think? Thinking for yourself is not exactly an excuse. I'm just saying, for example, some scientists come to a desired conclusion based on how they interpret certain statistics. Other scientists using the same criteria reach an entirely different conclusion - "global warming" being one hotly contested issue. Polls are very much designed to reach a desired conclusion by the way questions are constructed and to whom the questions are asked. Eighty percent of the people think Obama is a candidate for Sainthood - 80% thinks he's Satan reincarnate. All depends on who's asking what to whomever.

Why shouldn't I research, read, or whatever and come to my own conclusions, i.e., think for myself what I believe is closer to the truth.

That's just plain old qualitative thinking. Of course we should objectively consider the accuracy of data, but to just dismiss research out of hand really is just an excuse to hang on to one's own biases. Read some books about money and wealth attainment like 'The Millionaire Next Door' or something and tell us what problems you have with their methods and/or if there is reason to believe their findings are grossly inaccurate.

Hell's bells, man. I thought I was pretty clear about my reading, researching, etc. Maybe I should have used a question mark instead of a period. I'm not "going along with the rest of the crowd" just because they say something is so.

 

[Samson]

Most people aren't wealthy for much of the same reason poor people aren't middle class.

They just don't know how.

Simple as that.

And who is responsible for that? Evil rich people? No. They are responsible for their own fortune.... everyone is.

I agree with this about 90%.

Not everyone has the same opportunities afforded them. If you happen to be born into a financially stable, or even wealthy family, you have an advantage of maybe having a business being left to you at some point, or even something as simple as just having close family available to you that would be willing to lend you an amount of money to take a business risk of your own, where the principal received would not only be easy to come by, but also not owed back to a bank where if you were even lucky enough to receive it, you would be enslaved to them with the debt.

I'm a conservative who believes strongly in personal responsibility, but it's naive to think that every single American is born with equal opportunity.

Everyone HAS an opportunity, but the opportunity is not equal among all citizens.

"Citizens?"

Of the USA, I assume?

There are few countries where citizens have better opportunities to become wealthy.

 

[Paulie]

And who is responsible for that? Evil rich people? No. They are responsible for their own fortune.... everyone is.

I agree with this about 90%.

Not everyone has the same opportunities afforded them. If you happen to be born into a financially stable, or even wealthy family, you have an advantage of maybe having a business being left to you at some point, or even something as simple as just having close family available to you that would be willing to lend you an amount of money to take a business risk of your own, where the principal received would not only be easy to come by, but also not owed back to a bank where if you were even lucky enough to receive it, you would be enslaved to them with the debt.

I'm a conservative who believes strongly in personal responsibility, but it's naive to think that every single American is born with equal opportunity.

Everyone HAS an opportunity, but the opportunity is not equal among all citizens.

"Citizens?"

Of the USA, I assume?

There are few countries where citizens have better opportunities to become wealthy.

Come on man, you really didn't the context of what I was saying? I mean, it's not like I didn't make sure to mention that there is still an opportunity for everyone. I also didn't compare the US with anywhere else because anywhere else doesn't mean jack shit to me, especially for this discussion.

 

[jillian]

"Citizens?"

Of the USA, I assume?

There are few countries where citizens have better opportunities to become wealthy.

and yet the ability to be upwardly mobile has been shrinking rapidly... that shouldn't be ignored... not if each generation wants its kids to do better than the one before. that simply isn't happening right now.

 

[Paulie]

Tell the boy that was born in a trailer park whose parents barely made enough to pay rent and utilities and buy food, that had to bust his ever loving ass in school for a bare minimum of 17 years to achieve a degree that may or may not even get him a job right now, that his opportunity was equal to Bill Gates' kids.

 

[jillian]

ACtually Paris Hilton is a truly BAD example of a scion who sits on her ass and does nothing.

She's created more of her personal fortune than she inherited, ya know.

Sure she did it the new old-fashioned American way, too...

She became a media whore and then parleyed her notarity into a host of consumer goods licensed under her name.

Last time I read anything about her she'd more than quadripled her inheritance though these commerical ventures.

The girl might be all the trampish things the media tells us about her, but one thing for sure, too... she's nobody's fool.

I'd like to meet her.

I suspect she's way smarter than she wants the media to believe.

that's probably true. and for the record, her grandfather made sure none of his grand kids would get the bulk of his wealth.

 

[jillian]

Most people aren't wealthy for much of the same reason poor people aren't middle class.

They just don't know how.

Simple as that.

And who is responsible for that? Evil rich people? No. They are responsible for their own fortune.... everyone is.

well, you could have a discussion about that, hon. or you can go with the rightwing talking points.

 

[Samson]

"Citizens?"

Of the USA, I assume?

There are few countries where citizens have better opportunities to become wealthy.

and yet the ability to be upwardly mobile has been shrinking rapidly... that shouldn't be ignored... not if each generation wants its kids to do better than the one before. that simply isn't happening right now.

I wouldn't say that it "simply isn't happening."

I would say it simply isn't happening very often for the upper-middle class.

I would say that second gen. Immigrant's Children continue to do better than their parents, and would disagree that their "ability to be upwardly mobil has been shrinking rapidly." However, if it is declining at all, then I would blame the phenomena on an aging workforce remaining in jobs that were given up to younger workers 30 years ago. Again this happens more in higher paying, white collar jobs (that don't require much manual labor).

 

[Granny]

Tell the boy that was born in a trailer park whose parents barely made enough to pay rent and utilities and buy food, that had to bust his ever loving ass in school for a bare minimum of 17 years to achieve a degree that may or may not even get him a job right now, that his opportunity was equal to Bill Gates' kids.

He may not have had the dollar-for-dollar advantage but that doesn't mean he can't succeed. I can cite two close friends of mine - poor as Job's turkey - he was a laborer in a fender straightening business. They hardly had any clothes and lived in one room in winter because they couldn't afford to heat their whole house (rented, by the way). Three kids - the kids worked their asses off in school and got into college and graduate school on scholarships and Pell Grants. Oldest son went to ODU and is an elementary school principal, the girl graduated UVA Phi Beta Kappa and went to UVA Law School graduating with honors and is now a federal prosecutor, youngest son went to VA Tech and graduated with honors, got his first job as a chemical engineer and the company told him to go back to school and get is Ph.D. in chemistry - they picked up the tab. He has a few patents under his belt and is a successful chemical engineer.

The poor have the same opportunities as the rich in the respect that if they want it bad enough, study hard enough, they can succeed in getting where it is they want to be. Unfortunately, too many people sit on their asses, whine and moan about their status, think they're entitled to everything and expect everybody else to financially provide everything to them.

 

[Sallow]

Most people aren't wealthy for much of the same reason poor people aren't middle class.

They just don't know how.

Simple as that.

Well that and a mixture of "Rich People" skirting laws and being pretty ruthless. Take for example the moving company I use to work for..

Initially the owner paid everyone under the table, he didn't claim anything in taxes and functioned completely under the radar for the first few years. Then when he was making to much money..he claimed half the income he was getting. He was real dodgy with employees. On one job I was with..with him as the foreman..the customer gave me a washer/dryer as a tip..while giving him nothing. On the way back to the warehouse he said to me, "You know that washer/dryer is mine..right?". Later, as he became bigger, he hired ex-cons and other people down on their luck. He hired one guy who was a master carpenter..who single handedly built him a warehouse filled with storage bins. He wound up paying the guy like five dollars an hour for his work (off the books of course). As he became bigger, he did things like pay "ticket-time" to employees..which means you get the time on the billing sheet not the time you actually worked. He also started an "insurance company" to insure his own moves..meaning that he pocketed the additional insurance money. The rationale here was that if the claim was to big..he would dissolve the insurance company.

If there were a 10 year audit of this guy by the IRS..he would have been in some serious trouble.

And you want to pretend this guy is what would constitutute normal for most the wealthy?

Even if it was, what's your point? How did the way he ran his business prevent YOU from pursuing wealth?

He's small potatoes. There are other stories I know about but can't discuss in open forums.

But he's not unique. Not at all. And a good example.

And me? I do pretty well..I am not "wealthy"...and not really asking to be.

 

[Bern80]

Most people aren't wealthy for much of the same reason poor people aren't middle class.

They just don't know how.

Simple as that.

And who is responsible for that? Evil rich people? No. They are responsible for their own fortune.... everyone is.

well, you could have a discussion about that, hon. or you can go with the rightwing talking points.

Okay, let's discuss it;

You can piss and moan about the rich and income disaparity all you want. What is it they are doing to you that is preventing you from attaining greater wealth?

 

[Bern80]

He's small potatoes. There are other stories I know about but can't discuss in open forums.

But he's not unique. Not at all. And a good example.

I would contest that statistically he is. You really don't need to backstab or be underhanded to be wealthy. that seems to be what a lot of people think though and the excuse they make for not being rich. "Well I'm just to get a person to be weatlhy." What a convenient excuse that is.

And me? I do pretty well..I am not "wealthy"...and not really asking to be.

Which is exaclty my point. You haven't made being weatlhy a goal so you have little legitimate reason to complain about not being so or complaining about those that have chosen to pursue that.

 

[Bern80]

"Citizens?"

Of the USA, I assume?

There are few countries where citizens have better opportunities to become wealthy.

and yet the ability to be upwardly mobile has been shrinking rapidly... that shouldn't be ignored... not if each generation wants its kids to do better than the one before. that simply isn't happening right now.

No Jillian it's that people aren't adapting. The way to make money before and the way to make money now have changed significantly over the decades.

What should not be ignored is the very thing people like yourself DO ignore. Yourselves and examining why what you're doing isn't working. It isn't that there are less opportunites. It's that they aren't the same opportunites that there were 50 or even 10 years ago.

 

[Paulie]

Tell the boy that was born in a trailer park whose parents barely made enough to pay rent and utilities and buy food, that had to bust his ever loving ass in school for a bare minimum of 17 years to achieve a degree that may or may not even get him a job right now, that his opportunity was equal to Bill Gates' kids.

He may not have had the dollar-for-dollar advantage but that doesn't mean he can't succeed. I can cite two close friends of mine - poor as Job's turkey - he was a laborer in a fender straightening business. They hardly had any clothes and lived in one room in winter because they couldn't afford to heat their whole house (rented, by the way). Three kids - the kids worked their asses off in school and got into college and graduate school on scholarships and Pell Grants. Oldest son went to ODU and is an elementary school principal, the girl graduated UVA Phi Beta Kappa and went to UVA Law School graduating with honors and is now a federal prosecutor, youngest son went to VA Tech and graduated with honors, got his first job as a chemical engineer and the company told him to go back to school and get is Ph.D. in chemistry - they picked up the tab. He has a few patents under his belt and is a successful chemical engineer.

The poor have the same opportunities as the rich in the respect that if they want it bad enough, study hard enough, they can succeed in getting where it is they want to be. Unfortunately, too many people sit on their asses, whine and moan about their status, think they're entitled to everything and expect everybody else to financially provide everything to them.

I never said anyone COULDN'T succeed.

The dollar-for-dollar opportunity you speak of is my point. Bill Gates' son doesn't have to bust his ass for 17 years to get a degree.

Bill doesn't even have to GIVE him anything, per se, he could simply offer him opportunities that the trailer park kid has to labor his ass off to only HOPEFULLY achieve.

I don't make excuses for anyone. I just want to be clear that achieving "wealth" is not an equal opportunity.

Let's say a wealthy stock broker's son and a poor kid who worked his ass off to get a degree in investing, both went into the market with $5k to invest.

The poor kid has his educational knowledge to use in his investments, and may very well come out gold in the end. But the wealthy stock broker's son has access to insiders who can tell him how you REALLY make the big bucks in the stock market.

There's competitive disadvantages all over the place. But that's capitalism, and I still wouldn't trade it for any other system.

 

[Paulie]

Don't even get me started on sports. How many established professional athletes' kids make it to the big leagues while a host of other extremely talented kids are passed up? Plenty.

How about the guy who busts his ass being a volunteer firefighter for 10 years, takes the civil service exam and scores high on the list, and when the time comes for a department to hire, they choose the kid who's the second cousin of the town mayor who's never fought a fire in his life, over the guy who's a veteran at putting out fires and could come right in and contribute the absolute most for the investment?

I've seen THAT one too many times to even count.

Doesn't mean the guy who was turned up doesn't have an opportunity to still get hired, but he certainly has to work much harder at it than the mayor's second cousin.