Why should the poor not have to pay federal income tax

[jillian]

I believe the rich should pay more, too, although as we found out with both Romney and Buffet, their tax brackets are lower than us mere mortals.

However, I would love someone to explain how a flat tax is not equal treatment. If you have a flat tax rate of 20% and you earn $100,000 you pay $20,000. If you earn $40,000 you pay $8000. The person earning $100,000 pays over twice as much tax as the person earning $40,000. Seems fair to me....

Two considerations should give us pause before jumping on the flat-tax bandwagon. The first is the disruptive effect of eliminating deductions, credits and exclusions that benefit the middle class as well as the rich and that play important roles in our lives—pension contributions, employer-provided healthcare, and deductions for mortgage interest, property taxes, and charitable contributions that support everything from soup kitchens to education to the arts. Second is the role of our mildly progressive federal income tax in offsetting regressive taxes elsewhere in the system.

Flat Tax Is Class Warfare - US News and World Report

Ah, the fine print....

always have to look at the fine print. lol.

i remember the flat tax being called the "help steve forbes keep his wealth tax" by some.

 

[Jarhead]

The 'rich' also pay those other taxes... it is not like they are exempt from them
Nobody should be exempt from taxation AND EQUAL TREATMENT... it is flat out WRONG to have a sliding system that gives advantage to one at the expense of another

More jealousy of the poor on display.

The progressive system does treat everyone equally. A flat tax does not. But you're definition of equal is short sighted and poorly thought out. That's probably why you're in the extreme minority that think the way you do.

I believe the rich should pay more, too, although as we found out with both Romney and Buffet, their tax brackets are lower than us mere mortals.

However, I would love someone to explain how a flat tax is not equal treatment. If you have a flat tax rate of 20% and you earn $100,000 you pay $20,000. If you earn $40,000 you pay $8000. The person earning $100,000 pays over twice as much tax as the person earning $40,000. Seems fair to me....

when did you find that out?

They pay the same income tax percentage that everyone else in their bracket pay in regard to any wages they earn.

And they pay the same percentage capital gains tax as everyone else.

Do you pay a higher capital gains tax than everyone else? I blame your accountant.

 

[RDD_1210]

The 'rich' also pay those other taxes... it is not like they are exempt from them
Nobody should be exempt from taxation AND EQUAL TREATMENT... it is flat out WRONG to have a sliding system that gives advantage to one at the expense of another

More jealousy of the poor on display.

The progressive system does treat everyone equally. A flat tax does not. But you're definition of equal is short sighted and poorly thought out. That's probably why you're in the extreme minority that think the way you do.

I believe the rich should pay more, too, although as we found out with both Romney and Buffet, their tax brackets are lower than us mere mortals.

However, I would love someone to explain how a flat tax is not equal treatment. If you have a flat tax rate of 20% and you earn $100,000 you pay $20,000. If you earn $40,000 you pay $8000. The person earning $100,000 pays over twice as much tax as the person earning $40,000. Seems fair to me....

Because a flat tax hurts people who make very little. Its that little amount of money that they use to purchase basic life needs like food, shelter and healthcare. When you impose a flat tax with no exceptions on every dollar, it makes it even harder on people who dont make much at all. I'm fine with a flat tax as long as their is some sort of exemption on income below the poverty level. Flat tax everything above that for all I care.

 

[Dr Grump]

More jealousy of the poor on display.

The progressive system does treat everyone equally. A flat tax does not. But you're definition of equal is short sighted and poorly thought out. That's probably why you're in the extreme minority that think the way you do.

I believe the rich should pay more, too, although as we found out with both Romney and Buffet, their tax brackets are lower than us mere mortals.

However, I would love someone to explain how a flat tax is not equal treatment. If you have a flat tax rate of 20% and you earn $100,000 you pay $20,000. If you earn $40,000 you pay $8000. The person earning $100,000 pays over twice as much tax as the person earning $40,000. Seems fair to me....

when did you find that out?

They pay the same income tax percentage that everyone else in their bracket pay in regard to any wages they earn.

And they pay the same percentage capital gains tax as everyone else.

Do you pay a higher capital gains tax than everyone else? I blame your accountant.

Don't have Capital Gains tax down here....;o)

 

[Againsheila]

Perhaps we also ought to pass a law making it illegal for people on WELFARE to donate to a church?

AFter all, why should the taxpayers pay for welfare recipient's religious habits?

I don't believe people on welfare should be giving to a church, a campaign fund, or buying lottery tickets, or gambling.

 

[Wurlitzer28]

Until we demand taxes be only used for the Constitutionally mandated functions of government and NOT for social engineering this discussion will never end.

It matters not if a leftist is in power or a conservative, taxes should never have been used to further anyone's agenda. We have a government attempting to dictate our every move by taxing that which some government slug thinks is bad and giving tax breaks to those actions they think are good.

It is just as wrong for a business to write off some of their income as it is to write of interest paid on a mortgage. Both are social engineering and not a function of government trying to make us do the "right thing".

 

[M14 Shooter]

And therein lies the problem with the US health system. It's treated as a business...

As it should be.

The 'business' aspect isn't the problem -- the problem is people being insulated from the true cost of the goods and services they receive.

Ah, you see. You see health care as goods and services. Your system is destined to fail.

That's because it -is- goods and services.
I'd like to see you argue otherwise.

 

[Dr Grump]

As it should be.

The 'business' aspect isn't the problem -- the problem is people being insulated from the true cost of the goods and services they receive.

Ah, you see. You see health care as goods and services. Your system is destined to fail.

That's because it -is- goods and services.
I'd like to see you argue otherwise.

It's a service, not a business...

 

[Old Rocks]

Because that is what your representative government set up.

No one rich or poor, high income earner or minimun wage earner, pay tax on the first 19,000 this year.

EIC? The max a single person can gain from the system is 464 dollars.

Now don't confuse this bunch of ignorant 'Conservatives' with facts.

 

[DiamondDave]

More jealousy of the poor on display.

The progressive system does treat everyone equally. A flat tax does not. But you're definition of equal is short sighted and poorly thought out. That's probably why you're in the extreme minority that think the way you do.

I believe the rich should pay more, too, although as we found out with both Romney and Buffet, their tax brackets are lower than us mere mortals.

However, I would love someone to explain how a flat tax is not equal treatment. If you have a flat tax rate of 20% and you earn $100,000 you pay $20,000. If you earn $40,000 you pay $8000. The person earning $100,000 pays over twice as much tax as the person earning $40,000. Seems fair to me....

Because a flat tax hurts people who make very little. Its that little amount of money that they use to purchase basic life needs like food, shelter and healthcare. When you impose a flat tax with no exceptions on every dollar, it makes it even harder on people who dont make much at all. I'm fine with a flat tax as long as their is some sort of exemption on income below the poverty level. Flat tax everything above that for all I care.

There are positives AND negatives that come with equality....

You only want the negatives when you can dish them off on the evil rich... come what may, whether I receive the positive or the negative.. I would rather still have the equal treatment...

You feel justified with your subjective 'fairness' when passing off the burden on someone else thru unequal treatment under law by government... well, somehow I don't think you would support other unequal treatment by government based on income... such as 1 vote per 50K earned??? You see. I could use your argument and say it is entirely equal, you get 1 vote per 50k, whether you earn 10K or 10MIL, it's not discrimination.... What about lower sales tax rates as things go up in price??

When it comes down to it, it is still a jealousy and envy thing for you and your kind... wanting something at the expense of others or something for your cause at the expense of someone else...

Sad really... just sad

 

[Flopper]

Could you show me how it doesn't apply? Or are you saying it only applies to the States?

The Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause applies only to state governments, but the requirement of equal protection has been read to apply to the federal government as a component of Fifth Amendment due process.

The text of the 16th amendment is "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

How can the Equal Protection Clause possibly apply to this amendment? The amendment only gives the federal government the power to levy taxes on income. It doesn't say anything about the structure of the tax or even require that it actually be levied. It just says the federal government can levy a tax on income.

So you're saying the 16th says the government can tax people at different rated based on income level and the size of their families? Where in the amendment or elsewhere in the Constitution do you find justification for inequality of distribution? For punishing one class and rewarding another?

No. The 16th amendment gave the government the authority to levy a tax on income. It does not specify a progressive tax, flat tax, or any other rate structure. I think you are confusing the amendment with the revenue act of 1913 which after passage of the 16th amendment, levied a progressive income tax.

There have been many court challenges to the 16th Amendment, but so far, none of them have been successful. It would seem that the law is clear. We may not like it. It may not be fair. But there is little question that it is legal, and it is the Law. Just because you may think a law is unfair, does not make it unconstitutional. In almost every law that is passed, there are losers and winners.

 

[Flopper]

Until we demand taxes be only used for the Constitutionally mandated functions of government and NOT for social engineering this discussion will never end.

It matters not if a leftist is in power or a conservative, taxes should never have been used to further anyone's agenda. We have a government attempting to dictate our every move by taxing that which some government slug thinks is bad and giving tax breaks to those actions they think are good.

It is just as wrong for a business to write off some of their income as it is to write of interest paid on a mortgage. Both are social engineering and not a function of government trying to make us do the "right thing".

I think there some activities that the government should encourage and some it shouldn't. It just depends on the activity. I think the government should encourage people to vote, participate in government, support charities, save for retirement, and many other worthy endeavors. Businesses should be able write off expenses actually required to produce income. After all we are taxing income, not revenue.

However, there are some things like home ownership, financial investing, having large families, and marriage which are pretty questionable.

 

[NYcarbineer]

This punishes poor people and rewards the wealthy.

The Republican campaign against poor people continues.

Because poor people have so much political influence.

No, it doesn't. You missed the word progressive. Plus, you could make exemptions on necessities.

In addition, it will also combat our personal savings deficiency and curb against unbridled consumption fueled by revolving credit.

Here is some info on it. I would elaborate, but need to go.
Inequality and executive pay: All hail the progressive consumption tax! | The Economist
http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/_media/pdf/pathways/summer_2010/Frank.pdf
The progressive consumption tax: A win-win solution for reducing American economic inequality. - Slate Magazine

A consumption tax is naturally progressive. Poor people, having less expendable income, spend less and therefore pay less in taxes. "Rich" people, having more expendable income will buy more and therefore contribute a progressively increased sum to taxes.

That's not what progressive means, in the context of taxes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Republican tax policy is by far the main reason so many of the 'poor' pay no income taxes.

And now, sadly, they AND the Democrats have begun to eat away at the payroll tax. We are in a tax cut death spiral that the politicians do not have the courage to get us out of.

 

[Ed Spacer]

I dont need the government redistributing mine,or any other us citizens money for their own interests.time for taxpayers to become citizen investors,controlling and directly managing and appropriating the budgets,and leaders working only on the majority vote of the level of government jurisdiction.

 

[Douger]

Guy at the hardware makes $20,000, let him pay his 2 grand. A "guy" named General Electric makes 5 billion,let"him" pay his $500,000,000.
Understand ?

 

[Intense]

Republican tax policy is by far the main reason so many of the 'poor' pay no income taxes.

And now, sadly, they AND the Democrats have begun to eat away at the payroll tax. We are in a tax cut death spiral that the politicians do not have the courage to get us out of.

So you support Everyone paying Income Tax. That's good to hear.

 

[Intense]

Guy at the hardware makes $20,000, let him pay his 2 grand. A "guy" named General Electric makes 5 billion,let"him" pay his $500,000,000.
Understand ?

20, 000 X 15% = 3,000

5,000,000,000 X 15% = 750,000,000

Perfect.

15% Flat Tax wins. Thanks for playing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Republican tax policy is by far the main reason so many of the 'poor' pay no income taxes.

And now, sadly, they AND the Democrats have begun to eat away at the payroll tax. We are in a tax cut death spiral that the politicians do not have the courage to get us out of.

So you support Everyone paying Income Tax. That's good to hear.

You're willing to raise your own taxes in order to get the 'poor' to pay more taxes?

yes or no

Because that is the only way it's going to happen. You have to get rid of child based credits/deductions/exemptions to put the lower income households back paying tax,

and politicians are not going to get rid of them ONLY for the poor.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Guy at the hardware makes $20,000, let him pay his 2 grand. A "guy" named General Electric makes 5 billion,let"him" pay his $500,000,000.
Understand ?

20, 000 X 15% = 3,000

5,000,000,000 X 15% = 750,000,000

Perfect.

15% Flat Tax wins. Thanks for playing.

They will never pass a flat tax without an exemption for the first x number of dollars of earnings.

One of the big selling points of Steve Forbe's flat tax back in the eighties was an exemption that would have resulted in a family of four making up to 36,000 in taxable income

paying NO federal income taxes.

The same 'problem' you people are crying about now.