Why not the Fair Tax?

[Concerned American]

When I used to go to the barber I paid tax.

Sorry, LOL, I guess that is an unforeseen benefit of being folically challenged.

 

[Rigby5]

I did not state that property tax in Connecticut is 13%, I stated a person in connecticut with an income of $10 a hour would pay 13% of their pay in property tax

Connecticut has the highest property tax rate in the country.
But is not representative of anything.
A person making $10/hour makes 400/week, or $20,800/year.
A person with a low income like that likely could only afford $100k house.
And their property taxes then would only be about $2k/year.
So that is 2%, not 13% like you said.
But I did notice Connecticut properties were more than twice the average cost.

 

[Rigby5]

Not being taxed? When I buy clothing and shoes I pay tax. When I used to go to the barber I paid tax.

Wrong.
If the wealthy have a state tax number, then they pay no sales tax.

 

[Rigby5]

I think only one tax is the only fair way to tax. Nothing else by any government or agency. The governments and all their agencies should be forced to only tax a dollar when it is spent. Not when it is earned.

Spend a buck, get taxed once. Stop the government theft.

Wrong.
First of all, the feds should be out of it entirely, and only states should be able to tax at all.
Second is that only the states and municipalities provide services that need or deserve taxes, like schools, police, roads, etc.
The feds provide nothing.
Third is that the ability to pay varies greatly from state to state, federal taxes are always totally unfair.
Forth is that if you do not tax it when earned, it can be spent overseas instead.

 

[WinterBorn]

Sorry, LOL, I guess that is an unforeseen benefit of being folically challenged.

I haven't been to anyone to get my hair cut since 2001.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I haven't been to anyone to get my hair cut since 2001.

I haven't been since 1998. My sister asked me when I went home in February "How do you keep it all the same length?" I said "it isn't". I cut it myself, usually using nail scissors.

 

[WinterBorn]

I haven't been since 1998. My sister asked me when I went home in February "How do you keep it all the same length?" I said "it isn't". I cut it myself, usually using nail scissors.

In 2001 I was getting ready to go to my son's award ceremony for high school awards. I had my good suit cleaned and ready. And I couldn't get my hair to lay down on the sides. I was running late and was pissed.

So on the way back to my ex's house after the ceremony, I stopped at a chain hair place and had the girl shave my head.

I haven't had hair or had a haircut since.

 

[elektra]

Wrong.
First of all, the feds should be out of it entirely, and only states should be able to tax at all.
Second is that only the states and municipalities provide services that need or deserve taxes, like schools, police, roads, etc.
The feds provide nothing.
Third is that the ability to pay varies greatly from state to state, federal taxes are always totally unfair.
Forth is that if you do not tax it when earned, it can be spent overseas instead.

Wrong? You are an idiot, this is not one plus one. This thread is pure opinion.

The only fair transparent tax is one tax, let the IRS divide it up.

Only states provide services? Schools are over-funded with way too many administrators. Schools create expenses not needed, like throwing out books to re-write history or the common core bullshit.

The Feds are here to protect us with the military. It is pretty idiotic to state that the Feds do nothing.

Who gives a shit where money is spent, here or overseas. Not your decision. If I am overseas, I get taxed at a higher rate than if I spend my money here.

It is unbelievable that you and everyone else thinks every dollar created should be consumed 100% by the governments in the USA.

 

[kyzr]

Almost every poster here, pro and con knows nothing about how the fair tax actually would work.

It's not a "fair tax" its a "consumption tax".

Another "fair tax" proposed is actually a "flat tax"

These bullshit whiny tax schemes are going nowhere.

 

[HeyNorm]

Forgot about that. Taxes are collected only one time on purchases.

Honestly though, now that I’m discussing it…it does make me wonder how it would affect revenue. The government would be losing all income tax from people and companies, no more sales tax on used items, no social security or Medicare tax..it is starting to make me wonder if the consumption tax would be able to replace all of that

Not to go back on my original argument but I only brought this up because I was curious about what other people thought of it.

I’m seeing that most people think it’s a bad idea, which is fair (no pun intended)

The federal government does not currently impose sales tax in used goods, so there would be no loss to them.

I generally like the fair tax, although I see flaws.

I would propose that the only paycheck deduction would be for social security and Medicare.

 

[HeyNorm]

Wouldn’t it make low income folks who have no federal tax liability have to pay tax on every penny they spend?

Yes, but they already do, it’s now simply baked into the cost of the product they buy and hidden from them. Under a fair tax, as in the case of the toaster in the OP, the net affect on the poor consumer is a 0% increase in the cost of the product.

One of my favorite things about the fair tax is, if the government blows the budget, and requires an increase in the tax, everyone feels it, and the politicians will face the wrath of the consumers rather quickly.

 

[Libby von H]

A fair applicaton of an unfair tax is --- guess !!!

Biden's $7.3 trillion budget is campaign pitch for spending, tax goals​

HE IS A FOOL, ACCEPT ALL SUBSTITUTES

That is logically INTRINSICALLY UNFAIR and no application of it can be considered fair.

 

[Billiejeens]

It's not a "fair tax" its a "consumption tax".

Another "fair tax" proposed is actually a "flat tax"

These bullshit whiny tax schemes are going nowhere.

The "fair tax" is a spectacular plan.

It will never be enacted by Congress because Congress will never give up the carrot and stick power that regulating taxation gives them.

Leftists will never like it because it doesn't punish success.

Anyone center, right of center or just open minded that simply dismisses it hasn't spent any time understanding it.

 

[Billiejeens]

Wrong.
It makes no sense at all.
The main source of wealth is not from the production and sales of good, so will not be taxed.
Like investments in production in China, like iPhones won't be taxed if they are sold outside the US.

Yet things currently not taxed and essential to poor people like buying a home, would suddenly be unaffordable due to the new federal sales tax.

You have no understanding of it.

 

[JohnDB]

Otherwise known as a consumption tax.

From the Neal Boortz radio show, this is broken down into 5 parts but each part is pretty short:

Part 1:



Part 2:



Part 3:



Part 4:



Part 5:



And here’s another talk he had on it that gives more context:

Neal Boortz FAIRtax vs Republican Tax Plan

So, the key points are:

Eliminates all federal taxation from your check.

You get to keep 100% of your earnings (state taxes are addressed in the presentation as well)

Eliminates all corporate taxes, which will create an economic boom as companies all over the world will want to move their headquarters to America to take advantage of being able to operate tax free.

There is no longer a need to file taxes, so there is no longer a need for an IRS.

Not a single penny of the fair tax is paid until your very basic needs are met (housing, food, etc), this is done in the form of a prebate that the government sends you at the beginning of each month.

How it’s done:

A 20 million dollar study was done on the fair tax, and the result was, they found out that, depending on the product, from start to finish, the entire process from raw material to finished product, there is between 18% and 25% in taxes paid from manufacturers and suppliers that adds to the cost of the product.

The proposal is tax neutral, which means the consumer will pay no more for a product than they did before.

The idea is to eliminate those taxes, which will lower the cost of goods and services, but charge a 23% sales tax on everything you buy.

Here’s how it works:

The example given was a $100 toaster. They estimate the taxes paid in the process of manufacturing that toaster was 23%, or, $23 out of $100. So, if you take those taxes out of the process, the taxes that the makers would have to pay in the process of making that toaster, it would lower the cost of the toaster to $77. At the point of sale, a $23 tax is charged for that toaster.

$77 goes to the retailer and $23 goes to the government. The retailer gets paid, and the customer is still paying $100 for that toaster…the same as they did before. All of this is from you being able to keep 100% of your income, and getting a prebate so all your basic needs are paid for.

*****
My comments are…YOU could control the amount of tax you pay dependent on how much you buy/consume, those who buy more expensive things (rich people) pay more in taxes.

So, what is wrong with this plan? Where does it fail? Seems like a solid idea to me…thoughts?

Not gonna work. It's basically a sales tax.
What about property taxes. Water bills, the old Spanish/American war tax on telegraph that we pay today on internet fees....

It doesn't streamline anything except the government's claim on your wallet. Then there's all the taxes on gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, and firearms....permits and docking fees for cargo ships. (These pay a LOT of taxes) pipeline fees for petroleum companies both onshore and offshore (billions right there in taxes)

It puts the burden on people.

If you want to gain more tax dollars....stop the cap on Social security taxes. Stop all tax exemptions on foreign nationals. Stop giving illegal aliens tax dollars. START a stock and bond tax but include a retirement fund exemtion. (A form of property tax that actually hits those needing to pay some sort of taxes)

 

[HeyNorm]

Otherwise known as a consumption tax.

From the Neal Boortz radio show, this is broken down into 5 parts but each part is pretty short:

Part 1:



Part 2:



Part 3:



Part 4:



Part 5:



And here’s another talk he had on it that gives more context:

Neal Boortz FAIRtax vs Republican Tax Plan

So, the key points are:

Eliminates all federal taxation from your check.

You get to keep 100% of your earnings (state taxes are addressed in the presentation as well)

Eliminates all corporate taxes, which will create an economic boom as companies all over the world will want to move their headquarters to America to take advantage of being able to operate tax free.

There is no longer a need to file taxes, so there is no longer a need for an IRS.

Not a single penny of the fair tax is paid until your very basic needs are met (housing, food, etc), this is done in the form of a prebate that the government sends you at the beginning of each month.

How it’s done:

A 20 million dollar study was done on the fair tax, and the result was, they found out that, depending on the product, from start to finish, the entire process from raw material to finished product, there is between 18% and 25% in taxes paid from manufacturers and suppliers that adds to the cost of the product.

The proposal is tax neutral, which means the consumer will pay no more for a product than they did before.

The idea is to eliminate those taxes, which will lower the cost of goods and services, but charge a 23% sales tax on everything you buy.

Here’s how it works:

The example given was a $100 toaster. They estimate the taxes paid in the process of manufacturing that toaster was 23%, or, $23 out of $100. So, if you take those taxes out of the process, the taxes that the makers would have to pay in the process of making that toaster, it would lower the cost of the toaster to $77. At the point of sale, a $23 tax is charged for that toaster.

$77 goes to the retailer and $23 goes to the government. The retailer gets paid, and the customer is still paying $100 for that toaster…the same as they did before. All of this is from you being able to keep 100% of your income, and getting a prebate so all your basic needs are paid for.

*****
My comments are…YOU could control the amount of tax you pay dependent on how much you buy/consume, those who buy more expensive things (rich people) pay more in taxes.

So, what is wrong with this plan? Where does it fail? Seems like a solid idea to me…thoughts?

Question. If the fair tax results in a 0% increase to the consumer in price, why have a prebate in the first place?

 

[HeyNorm]

Not gonna work. It's basically a sales tax.
What about property taxes. Water bills, the old Spanish/American war tax on telegraph that we pay today on internet fees....

It doesn't streamline anything except the government's claim on your wallet. Then there's all the taxes on gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, and firearms....permits and docking fees for cargo ships. (These pay a LOT of taxes) pipeline fees for petroleum companies both onshore and offshore (billions right there in taxes)

It puts the burden on people.

If you want to gain more tax dollars....stop the cap on Social security taxes. Stop all tax exemptions on foreign nationals. Stop giving illegal aliens tax dollars. START a stock and bond tax but include a retirement fund exemtion. (A form of property tax that actually hits those needing to pay some sort of taxes)

None of the above are income taxes to begin with and fall outside the proposal.

 

[JohnDB]

Question. If the fair tax results in a 0% increase to the consumer in price, why have a prebate in the first place?

Because corporations never really drop prices...that's never happened before I don't see it happening now. There's marketing to make you believe they have....but they really don't.

 

[JohnDB]

None of the above are income taxes to begin with and fall outside the proposal.

There's a ton of taxes on everything and every activity.

You can't go camping, fishing, Hunting, ride a bicycle, or just about anything without paying taxes, fees, or licenses in some fashion.

 

[AsherN]

Now you pay $23 in income tax on the wages you buy a toaster with, and the change is to eliminate income tax entirely and only pay a $23 sales tax when you buy the toaster.



It's magic!!!!

Or, the math is really, really bad.

The math is really bad. Right now, that toaster brings in $23 in taxes. You pay $23 in income tax. So the toaster brings in $46. Under that systems, the toaster only brings in $23.
And it does not take into account State income taxes.