Why my friends are leaving Israel

[P F Tinmore]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

 

[Foxfyre]

The Russians were an unusually large group immigrating to Israel beginning in the 1990's. And though Israel was happy to have them, many have not assimilated as well as some other groups. Part of the reason is that Israel is becoming more crowded all the time and therefore has more difficulty in assimilating newcomers. With a population of just under 8 million people--just under 6 million are Jews--it just isn't as easy to assimilate a 100,000 new workers as it is in a country the size of the USA.

The Israelis do welcome Jews from anywhere, but the same kind of dynamics exist there as existed here for most of two centuries when we needed new immigrants and welcomed them in almost unlimited numbers. Evenso, most new immigrants spent their first generation here digging in and hammering out a modest existance, and it was not until subsequent generations that they began to prosper.

The same situation exists in Israel re their large influx of new Russian immigrants--most who have been there for less than 20 years. And some are used to more power and prestige than what they have as newcomers. And choose to move on rather than 'pay their dues' so to speak as new immigrants in most countries have to do.

The majority of the Israeli public writes off the Russians as bad eggs.

“This doesn’t surprise me,” says Ruby Rivlin, who was present when the issue was debated by Israel’s parliamentary Absorption Committee; “after all, they’re not Zionists.” “This doesn’t surprise us,” say some members of Israeli academia. “It’s natural that every wave of immigrants realizes its goals only after several generations.”

It is hard to argue with this view, which sees the departure of the Russians as a natural, even expected, phenomenon. True, most of these immigrants work more than native Israelis, pay their taxes, uphold the laws of the state, and serve in the army; yet there’ is no disputing the fact that tiny Israel is burdened with the problems of absorbing, within a short time frame, a million immigrants with professions that do not always suit the needs of its modest economy. They segregate themselves within a local Russian culture that appears threatening to many Israelis. Roughly one-third are not Jewish according to religious criteria. So there is certain logic to the question of why the Russians, of all groups, should acclimatize more rapidly than previous groups of immigrants. Did not the Moroccans also need time to fit in
50% Russian Jews in Israel leave. | Jewish Daily Report

 

[irosie91]

so? nothing new

 

[Foxfyre]

It is a valid topic. Of interest to historians. A political tool for those who are anti-Israel or perhaps even some who are anti-Russian. I have no dog in that fight so for me it is an interesting and multifaceted phenomenon.

 

[irosie91]

It is a valid topic. Of interest to historians. A political tool for those who are anti-Israel or perhaps even some who are anti-Russian. I have no dog in that fight so for me it is an interesting and multifaceted phenomenon.

Yes it is----the RUSSIAN immigration to israel was the end result of a "FIGHT"
---demands by other jews that the russian jews be LET OUT OF A RUSSIA---which
did not allow emigration. ie---set free. The reality is that many ---if not MOST
were not overly enthusiastic about going specifically to ISRAEL and many---whether
the number is MOST is unknown-----were not even Jews. They were people taking
advantage of an OPPORTUNITY to get to THE WEST-----Another interesting
phenomenon----is that the Russian government ALSO grabbed the OPPORTUNITY--
to get rid of people they did not want Something lie the CUBAN ---empty the
jails into FLORIDA program I heard about these facts about 35 years ago---
from a russian immigrant to the USA-----jewish --biochemist-. She predicted
a big disaster for israel ------it seems she was right. Now there is even a VODKA
problem in Israel that did not previously exist

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

Whereas your friends are leaving Israel, I have quite a few who are moving there. There are far more people moving TO Israel rather than FROM. The future has never looked brighter for Israel. - Jeremiah

 

[Roudy]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

Awwww here is another Hamas terrorist supporter with his fake concern for the fate of everyday Israelis. Yup the same guy who's support for Hamas animals is unending, and keeps repeating the Hamas party line that Israel is inside Palestine and must be annihilated...blah blah blah, is now "concerned" about Israeli immigrants. Gimmi a fucking break. They always assume everybody is a stupid, ignorant, and foolish as they are. Ha ha

 

[Foxfyre]

It is a valid topic. Of interest to historians. A political tool for those who are anti-Israel or perhaps even some who are anti-Russian. I have no dog in that fight so for me it is an interesting and multifaceted phenomenon.

Yes it is----the RUSSIAN immigration to israel was the end result of a "FIGHT"
---demands by other jews that the russian jews be LET OUT OF A RUSSIA---which
did not allow emigration. ie---set free. The reality is that many ---if not MOST
were not overly enthusiastic about going specifically to ISRAEL and many---whether
the number is MOST is unknown-----were not even Jews. They were people taking
advantage of an OPPORTUNITY to get to THE WEST-----Another interesting
phenomenon----is that the Russian government ALSO grabbed the OPPORTUNITY--
to get rid of people they did not want Something lie the CUBAN ---empty the
jails into FLORIDA program I heard about these facts about 35 years ago---
from a russian immigrant to the USA-----jewish --biochemist-. She predicted
a big disaster for israel ------it seems she was right. Now there is even a VODKA
problem in Israel that did not previously exist

Among the later Russian immigrants, you are correct. Most went to Israel out of an, as it turned out, erroneous assumption they would have greater benefits and opportunity there than what existed in post cold-war Russia. They quickly became disallusioned when they found that life could be even more difficult in Israel than it had been in Russia.

The early Russian Jews who immigrated to Israel and elsewhere--probably most came to the United States--were true refugees. They were initially forced to sell their property--to Russians of course--and leave. Emigration from Russia was allowed and easy then. (Think the underlying political plot of "Fiddler on the Roof.") And once the regimes of Lenin and then Stalin became firmly entrenched, however, the vicious pograms against the Jews were relentless and horrific. Those driven out and later who got out however they could were true refugees.

 

[Roudy]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

Whereas your friends are leaving Israel, I have quite a few who are moving there. There are far more people moving TO Israel rather than FROM. The future has never looked brighter for Israel. - Jeremiah

That's right. Israeli economy has been doing astoundingly better than the rest of the world during this worldwide depression and recession.

 

[pbel]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

From my thread "the year 2048."


…It has been one hundred years since Roseis was elected PM of Israel, her great grandsons Sniffer and CamelPed are the only two Jews left in the last Jewish Settlement in the Occupied Territories. They were left with trying to convert Palestinians with promises of riches and gold. But alas, no takers, means that they lack the necessary ten Jews to form a congregation…

It has been 47 years since the wells went dry in the Middle East. Because of this the ME was no longer important strategically to anyone. America left fifty years ago and stopped sending military hardware to Israel because Israel could no longer afford these weapons because all Jewish Israelis had migrated all over the world seeking economic opportunities without the danger of constant war.

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

No country is perfect. And the grass, for the most of us, looks different (often better, but at least) on the other side.

In the Army we had this saying: The best unit you ever served with was the one you just left, and the worste unit is the one you just signed into.​

I miss my friends very much.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

(COMMENT)

Israel, in its short existence, probably has had more trouble then most throughout history. And its people, Palestinians all, by ancestral culture and heritage, have been troubled for nearly 3000 years. They have been dogged by everyone in Europe, and even their own Arab relations, for all that time.

Israel is learning to be the great melting pot of immigrants that America once was. For the region of the world it is in, a region not known for intellectual and scientific development, it will be a hard road to traverse.

Some will leave in search of another land, culturally sound and developing. You won't find that in the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Foxfyre]

et al,

No country is perfect. And the grass, for the most of us, looks different (often better, but at least) on the other side.

In the Army we had this saying: The best unit you ever served with was the one you just left, and the worste unit is the one you just signed into.​

I miss my friends very much.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

(COMMENT)

Israel, in its short existence, probably has had more trouble then most throughout history. And its people, Palestinians all, by ancestral culture and heritage, have been troubled for nearly 3000 years. They have been dogged by everyone in Europe, and even their own Arab relations, for all that time.

Israel is learning to be the great melting pot of immigrants that America once was. For the region of the world it is in, a region not known for intellectual and scientific development, it will be a hard road to traverse.

Some will leave in search of another land, culturally sound and developing. You won't find that in the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Further, those who would presume to judge Israel by comparing it to the USA, or vice versa, or by comparing it to any other country, simply cannot be realistic. The Palestinians have always been Arab and Jew and the Jews in particular have suffered discrimination and persecution of various kinds throughout their very long, recorded history. Plus the USA is one of the world's largest in area and population. The State of Israel has barely more people than New York City and occupies a land mass equivalent to one New Mexico county.

We can make one comparison. The surrender of Cornwallis at Yorktown allowed Americans to form the first country in the history of the world in which the citizens had their natural God given rights recognized and the purpose of the government was to secure them and then allow the people to be free. In every other country in the history of he world, the government dictates to the people what rights they will have and can just as easily take them away.

And except for a relatively brief period in the days of David and Solomon in pre Christian times, the creation of the State of Israel was the very first place that the Jews have ever had in which they could set the rules that they wanted, and they would never have to submit to persecution, discrimination, and second class citizen status because they were Jews.

 

[Lipush]

Gotta admit, he makes some good points, but the idea is not to leave, but to stay and try and change...

 

[georgephillip]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

"Only those who have felt the wrath of anti-Semitism and whose families suffered in the Holocaust can truly appreciate the meaning of 'To be free people in our land.' My friends belong to this group of people. So try to imagine how painful it was for them to leave 'our land,' in which we are supposed to be 'free people.' So why did they leave?"

Maybe they discovered it's hard to be "free people" when you're living on stolen land?

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

 

[Sunni Man]

That's right. Israeli economy has been doing astoundingly better than the rest of the world during this worldwide depression and recession.

If that's true?

Then why does Israel have to beg the U.S. for a couple of billion dollars in foreign Aid in both money and weapons every year??

 

[Lipush]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

"Only those who have felt the wrath of anti-Semitism and whose families suffered in the Holocaust can truly appreciate the meaning of 'To be free people in our land.' My friends belong to this group of people. So try to imagine how painful it was for them to leave 'our land,' in which we are supposed to be 'free people.' So why did they leave?"

Maybe they discovered it's hard to be "free people" when you're living on stolen land?

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

RELEASED LAND.

And I thought this was about everyday difficulties, not about politics.

 

[pbel]

lip: RELEASED LAND.

That's a nice way of calling Theft...So you went from stealing Hub-Caps to Land! Good Girl!

 

[Hossfly]

I miss my friends very much. It's not what you think - they are all healthy and doing great. But they had to leave Israel. Pavel worked as a driver and had an old CBR600 motorcycle. Today he is in Canada. My cousin Anna lives in Germany (I must say that I'm not crazy about the choice). Mishke, a biologist with a master's degree, the snob of the group who loves jazz, lives in New York. Yuri, my good friend, moved to Australia.

Regretfully, the list is long, and it keeps getting longer. The names of more than five people who are dear to me are added to the list each year. My friends are scattered all over the globe. And it's not as if you can say, "Those bastards; who cares if they leave." They were all the salt of the earth, good citizens. They all went to the army, and many of them served in combat units. But after their service they faced a difficult reality: They studied while working, made a living and performed IDF reserves duty. At a certain point they just couldn't take it anymore.

I admit that this situation has a lot to do with Russian education, which teaches people to overcome and not complain. I am an engineer, not a sociologist, but I want to warn the powers that be that if the emigration from Israel is not stopped, we will all lose. We may even lose the country itself. Because it is not wars or the army or having to learn a new language that breaks these people, it is the absence of the opportunity to live with dignity, start a family or own a home. What breaks these people is the fact that there is no horizon, no hope that something will change.

Why my friends are leaving Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

Perhaps Tinnie can tell us why his Muslim friends are leaving Muslim countries in droves? One would think they would not want to breathe the same air as the Infidels in the U.S. Canada and Europe. How come they are leaving their glorious Islsamic countries, Tinnie? Are the benefits they receive that great since there have been many articles regarding how they refuse to assimilate and they want the indigenous population to bend to what they want. Maybe Tinnie knows the scoop about all this.
Muslim patrol: Hooded vigilantes walking streets of London telling women to cover up and taking alcohol out of the hands of revellers so they behave the Islamic way | Mail Online

 

[Roudy]

That's right. Israeli economy has been doing astoundingly better than the rest of the world during this worldwide depression and recession.

If that's true?

Then why does Israel have to beg the U.S. for a couple of billion dollars in foreign Aid in both money and weapons every year??

That is true and Israel doesn't "beg". The US and Israel are strong allies with a close relationship that involves both financial aid and military and economic cooperation. I'd be more concerned with the 20 billion and counting we've given to the Bin Laden hiding Pakistanis who are anything but our friends, if I were you.

 

[jillian]

That's right. Israeli economy has been doing astoundingly better than the rest of the world during this worldwide depression and recession.

If that's true?

Then why does Israel have to beg the U.S. for a couple of billion dollars in foreign Aid in both money and weapons every year??

That is true and Israel doesn't "beg". The US and Israel are strong allies with a close relationship that involves both financial aid and military and economic cooperation. I'd be more concerned with the 20 billion and counting we've given to the Bin Laden hiding Pakistanis who are anything but our friends, if I were you.

the terrorist supporters never complain about money given to the pals...

or egypt

or saudi arabia (as if saudi arabia needs our money)...

they only ever concern themselves with israel.

isn't that funny?