Why can't pharmaceuticals synthesize complete analogues of natural drugs?

[rupol2000]

Probably, there are more surrogates on the drug market now than natural drugs.

For example, methadone is considered a synthetic substitute for heroin, spice contains a synthetic analogue of cannabis, it seems to be "JWH-018", there are substitutes for ephedrine, and so on.

But why can't chemical production create completely identical natural substances? Why is it impossible, for example, to synthesize a formula of opium or heroin, which in terms of chemical structure would be an absolute analogue of a natural substance?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Study chemistry sometime and you'll see that it is very difficult to get things synthesized exactly. Just a little off, and the results can be vastly different.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Probably, there are more surrogates on the drug market now than natural drugs.

For example, methadone is considered a synthetic substitute for heroin, spice contains a synthetic analogue of cannabis, it seems to be "JWH-018", there are substitutes for ephedrine, and so on.

But why can't chemical production create completely identical natural substances? Why is it impossible, for example, to synthesize a formula of opium or heroin, which in terms of chemical structure would be an absolute analogue of a natural substance?

If they did it would be much more expensive than the natural version.

 

[mamooth]

Morphine is the most "important" part of opium, and morphine can be synthesized. Same with the codeine.

That's the general pattern. The "natural" thing will be a stew of all kinds of chemicals, most of which don't matter. Therefore, there's no point in trying to recreate the natural thing. Just recreate the chemicals that matter.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Morphine is the most "important" part of opium, and morphine can be synthesized. Same with the codeine.

That's the general pattern. The "natural" thing will be a stew of all kinds of chemicals, most of which don't matter. Therefore, there's no point in trying to recreate the natural thing. Just recreate the chemicals that matter.

Cocaine is the most important part of the cocoa plant, and you can remove all the extra chemicals.

Only problem is...............when you do that, you end up with a very addictive substance that should only be used carefully and with supervision.

On the other hand, cocoa leaves have been used for many centuries by people to help cope with altitude and for extra energy. You can chew cocoa leaves (with their stew of extra chemicals) and never become addicted to them.

Do cocaine with all the "stew" removed? It's a dangerous addictive substance.

That stuff you call "stew" could be some of the stuff that makes it safer to use.

 

[rupol2000]

Study chemistry sometime and you'll see that it is very difficult to get things synthesized exactly. Just a little off, and the results can be vastly different.

They make a stable methadone molecule. In any methadone, the same formula.

 

[rupol2000]

Morphine is the most "important" part of opium, and morphine can be synthesized. Same with the codeine.

That's the general pattern. The "natural" thing will be a stew of all kinds of chemicals, most of which don't matter. Therefore, there's no point in trying to recreate the natural thing. Just recreate the chemicals that matter.

This is wrong. All synthetic drugs are significantly inferior to natural ones, so this matters.

 

[mamooth]

Do cocaine with all the "stew" removed? It's a dangerous addictive substance.

If someone chews raw the leaf heavily, they become an addict.

It's all about the dose, not the other stuff.

 

[mamooth]

This is wrong. All synthetic drugs are significantly inferior to natural ones, so this matters.

Synthetic morphine has the same chemical structure as natural morphine, so how can it be inferior?

 

[meaner gene]

Synthetic morphine has the same chemical structure as natural morphine, so how can it be inferior?

This is really all about the costs of extracting and purifying the natural product, vs synthesizing and distilling the synthetic. As the synthesizing process produces isomers that are usually not found in the natural sources, that can sometimes be a very tricky (and expensive) chemical process to purify.

Look at the dioxin contamination of agent orange (2-4-5-T)

 

[rupol2000]

If someone chews raw the leaf heavily, they become an addict.

It's all about the dose, not the other stuff.

The dose does not matter at all, at first the tolerance rises a little, then it stabilizes. There is nothing like it, and the most difficult addiction to natural "hard" drugs is not there either. These are all myths. If you drink coffee every day and then stop abruptly, you will be weak for several days. There is nothing terrible in this, it is easily tolerated. Hard abstinence syndrome happens from alcohol.

 

[rupol2000]

Synthetic morphine has the same chemical structure as natural morphine, so how can it be inferior?

I don't know, I don't think morphine is ever used anywhere. Morphine is one of the opium alkaloids. If there was pure opium in circulation, no one would buy synthetic crap. Opium is easily converted into heroin

 

[rupol2000]

This is really all about the costs of extracting and purifying the natural product, vs synthesizing and distilling the synthetic. As the synthesizing process produces isomers that are usually not found in the natural sources, that can sometimes be a very tricky (and expensive) chemical process to purify.

Look at the dioxin contamination of agent orange (2-4-5-T)

Well, it's not about purity at all. This is not the question.

For example, there is a formula for heroin: C21H23NO5

Why don't they do exactly this formula, but do something else?

 

[rupol2000]

If they did it would be much more expensive than the natural version.

And why would it be more expensive? Because this is mass production, it can only be significantly more expensive if they have to use an expensive reagent.

I think the point is that this is exactly what they want: the formulas to be different. The authorities are most afraid of natural drugs, they turn a blind eye to synthetics.

They first released methadone for the treatment of heroin addicts. But this is ridiculous, because methadone is a much more dangerous drug than heroin.

 

[meaner gene]

Well, it's not about purity at all. This is not the question.

For example, there is a formula for heroin: C21H23NO5

Why don't they do exactly this formula, but do something else?

As I said, the problem is isomers.

i·so·mer
noun

CHEMISTRY
each of two or more compounds with the same formula but a different arrangement of atoms in the molecule and different properties.

The same chemical process, produces not just the chemical you want to synthesize, but other nearly identical chemicals you don't want. And the complication is how to purify out the harmful isomers without dramatically increasing the cost.

 

[mamooth]

If there was pure opium in circulation, no one would buy synthetic crap.

Medical science uses synthetic morphine, not opium. That tells you which is better.

And yes, morphine is still in wide use in medicine.

The big issue? Concentration. You never know exactly what you'll get with opium. You do with synthetic morphine.

 

[meaner gene]

Medical science uses synthetic morphine, not opium. That tells you which is better.

And yes, morphine is still in wide use in medicine.

The big issue? Concentration. You never know exactly what you'll get with opium. You do with synthetic morphine.

That's all part of the process of extracting it from natural sources. The additional costly quality control to produce the same concentrations from different sources.

It's no different than when they make wine or whiskey. Each batch is slightly different.

 

[rupol2000]

Synthetic morphine has the same chemical structure as natural morphine, so how can it be inferior?

According to Wikipedia, the first heroin was derived from morphine. But if heroin can be made from morphine, then why don't they sell synthetic morphine? Does it really exist? Maybe there is no synthetic morphine either?

 

[rupol2000]

Medical science uses synthetic morphine, not opium. That tells you which is better.

And yes, morphine is still in wide use in medicine.

The big issue? Concentration. You never know exactly what you'll get with opium. You do with synthetic morphine.

I have never heard of synthetic morphine or heroin made from it being sold on the streets.
Something is not clean here.

 

[mamooth]

According to Wikipedia, the first heroin was derived from morphine. But if heroin can be made from morphine, then why don't they sell synthetic morphine?

The medical industry does sell synthetic morphine.

And it can be found on the street, generally in pill form.