What is China up to?

Discussion in 'Military' started by Munin, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. Munin
    Offline

    Munin VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,300
    Thanks Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +95
    What is China up to?

    This week China increased its military budget again.

    China keeps increasing military budget with double digits:
    ...
    2007: World Politics Review | China's Latest Military Spending Increase Garners Anxious Reactions
    2008 (Navy): Chinese submarine fleet is growing, analysts say - International Herald Tribune
    2008: BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China to raise military spending
    2008: (recent navy changes)[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ArAiB3GIg]YouTube - U.S. vs China[/ame]

    The huge submarine fleet that China now has developed, is now the largest submarine fleet in Asia.
    What could be the purpose? Look back at the reasons why nations used submarines in the latest wars:
    - Germany: a blockade of Britain, wich nearly succeeded at some point in the war.
    - Japan: Carrier attacks (destroyed at least one carrier), intelligence gathering, attacking supply convoys
    - US: intelligence gathering, attacking supply convoys, used in decisive naval battles.
    What re the advantages for China?
    * Unlocks Taiwan Blockade option (another advantage is that submarines re cheap compared to other naval ships)
    * Unlocks the option to get nukes undetected within range of US mainland
    * Very useful against the biggest weakness of the US fleet in the pacific: the immense area the US has to cover to protect all its islands and trade & supply lanes.
    * Cheap submarines allow the production of a large number of them, making the area they can cover immense. Allowing the wolfpack doctrine for submarines (submarines operating in large groups or "wolfpacks")

    Also keep in mind: "analysts say real figure is much higher" (since China doesn't publish the real numbers)

    China's naval tests of the US naval fleet:
    Washington Times - China sub stalked U.S. fleet
    China's submarine testing:
    (Okt 2008) Submarines: Chinese Boats Stalk George Washington

    China's spy service:
    China hacks into Pentagon | Metro.co.uk (US military)
    Inside the Chinese Hack Attack - TIME (US military)
    Lawmakers Say China Hacks Their Computers - Headline Watch (US Congress & House Foreign Affairs Committee)
    CNN.com - Sources: Chinese board U.S. spy plane, remove equipment - April 3, 2001 (A Big Thank You to the US military for the state of the art technology)
    Defense Tech: China Hacks White House Email? (US white house)
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MzXk-1dWPc]YouTube - China Hacks Whitehouse![/ame] (US white house)
    French reveal China hacks | Australian IT (France)
    China hacks Germany… « The 411… (Germany)
    Belgium reports Chinese cyber attack | Information Age (Belgium)
    Information Warfare: China Hacks Tibet (Tibet War is still going on)


    Comparison of China's with US: World Military Strength Comparison


    China keeps buying US debt at an alarming rate:

    http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
    China is the biggest stakeholder of US treasure debt and has since recently surpassed the Japanese in being largest stakeholder in US debt. Why is this important?

    "Suez Crisis
    Main article: Suez Crisis

    After the United Kingdom and the United States withdrew their pledge to support the construction of the Aswan Dam due to Egyptian overtures towards the Soviet Union, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalised the canal in 1956, intending to finance the dam project using revenue from the canal, while at the same time closing the Gulf of Aqaba to all Israeli shipping by closure of the Straits of Tiran. This provoked the Suez Crisis, in which the UK, France and Israel colluded to invade Egypt. The intention was for Israel to invade on the ground, and for the Anglo-French partnership to give air and other support, later to intervene to resolve the crisis and control the canal.

    To stop the war from spreading and to save the British from what he thought was a disastrous action, Canadian Secretary of State for External Affairs, Lester B. Pearson, proposed the creation of the very first United Nations peacekeeping force to ensure access to the canal for all and an Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai. On 4 November 1956, a majority of nations at the United Nations voted for Pearson's peacekeeping resolution, which mandated the UN peacekeepers to stay in the Sinai Peninsula unless both Egypt and Israel agreed to their withdrawal. The United States backed this proposal BY PUTTING FINANCIAL PRESSURE ON THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT, which then agreed to withdraw its troops. Pearson was later awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. As a result of damage and ships intentionally sunk under orders from Nasser[30] the canal was closed until April 1957, when it was cleared with UN assistance. A UN force (UNEF) was established to maintain the neutrality of the canal and the Sinai Peninsula."

    "BY PUTTING FINANCIAL PRESSURE ON THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT"
    The US actually forced the British by using the debt the British had towards the Americans (The British were firmly opposed to this "solution"), so what if China just takes Taiwan and uses US debt as an "insurance": if the US would have to interfere they d have to lend the money from china to do it (because of US national debt).




    The painful irony is that we indirectly paid for their military expansion, because of investment from the West in the Chinese economy since 1979. And if China would one day decide to use its military against the US, it would have be even more painful knowing that the Western Nations were responsible for indirectly expanding Chinese military into the state it will be then.


    Also the statement of China that "the expansion of the military is purely for defensive reasons", shouldn't make you feel more comfortable. Knowing that this statement has been used time and time again in the history of war and knowing that about every Nation in history that expanded his military always did it with the purpose to use it (not to "defend").



    Interesting links:
    Birth Of A Superpower - TIME
    India-China Relations: A Military Perspective - V R Raghavan (China - India relations)
    U.S. National Debt Clock (US current Dept)
    the nuclear information project: Chinese Nuclear Sub Cave (Chinese submarine-cave)
    Top-secret Chinese sub surfaces on internet maps - Technology - smh.com.au (China's latest "new" sub)
    http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/default.asp (List of types of China's subs with specifications by NATO/OTAN)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  2. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,617
    They can afford this sort of military build up thanks to millions of Americans giving up their jobs to jumpstart their economy.

    Wonder when China is planning on pullin g the rug out from under those folks who believed that trading with China such that we got poor while they got rich wouldn't matter?

    God! ~ our leaders are either the dumbest fucking leaders in human history or the most venal.

    Either way they ought to be horsewhipped and sent to work in some of America's famous FOR PROFIT prisons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  3. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,547
    Thanks Received:
    5,899
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,957
    Are the subs diesel or nuclear? Diesel means they are still not a blue water navy. How many are able to carry nukes? I suspect the US navy would go a tad balistic if China were building a large submarine force of nuclear launch capable.

    Diesel subs though are a problem around Taiwan. Harder to detect in most cases. And as far as I know we still haven't replaced the P3 Orion.

    China will most likely go for Taiwan in the next 10 years. Or try to convince Taiwan they can do it. Our navy is the ONLY reason Taiwan is not red now.
     
  4. Munin
    Offline

    Munin VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,300
    Thanks Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +95
    The majority of them re diesel, but as you said they have their advantages.

    But they have nuclear-powered ones as well: Submarines - SinoDefence.com (keep in mind that these re the estimated figures, the real number of subs might be much higher)

    I don't know how many of their subs re able to carry nuclear missiles, that s the problem: we don't even know how many subs China even really has.

    They ve been working on all kind of subs lately:
    Top-secret Chinese sub surfaces on internet maps - Technology - smh.com.au

    And them having these kind of underground sub-bases makes it harder for US intelligence to spot them: http://www.nukestrat.com/china/subcave.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  5. eots
    Offline

    eots no fly list

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,995
    Thanks Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    IN TH HEARTS AND MINDS OF FREE MEN
    Ratings:
    +2,606

     
  6. we_ourselves
    Offline

    we_ourselves Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2008
    Messages:
    45
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +4
    Maybe they just want to hold our own when enemy nations like the U.S., Japan, Taiwan, and south Korea have forces all over China's backyard, including nuclear-armed warships in Chinese territorial waters.
     
  7. YWN666
    Offline

    YWN666 Freelance Beer Tester Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Thanks Received:
    447
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +458
    They're going to slowly take over the world by putting lead in all of the toys they produce.
     
  8. chloe
    Online

    chloe Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    China is up to No Good and should be treated like the extortionist country it is.
     
  9. Xenophon
    Offline

    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,705
    Thanks Received:
    3,750
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    In your head
    Ratings:
    +3,751
    It appears to be poetic justice, as for centuries all they wanted was to be left alone and the west took them over.

    Now the shoe is on the other foot.

    The fates have a sense of humor.
     
  10. random3434
    Offline

    random3434 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    25,903
    Thanks Received:
    7,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +7,194
    Then WalMart will sell them.
     

Share This Page