What “is” a radio signal-?

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by watchingfromafar, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. OsteInmar
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    IT has a corposular-wave duality. It has the properties of interference, diffraction as a wave and mass, as a particle. A photon does not have a rest mass.
    Low-frequency photons are described by the laws of classical electrodynamics, as having vector characteristics-polarization, tension and scalar-energy, which is proportional to the second degree of tension. More often they say - the electromagnetic field. This field is generated by moving charged particles.
    High-frequency photons are often called quanta, they are described by the laws of quantum physics, as a separate particle, having a mass and energy proportional to the frequency. They are generated as a result of the transition of an electron in an ethomium to a low energy level.
     
  2. OsteInmar
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    The electron has a negative charge, it rotates around the positive nucleus.
    Hence, it is a charged particle that moves with acceleration. As is known from classical physics, such a system emits an electromagnetic field, hence it loses energy.
    Therefore, the atom must go to end.
    But the atom is stable.
    Why? :08621:
     
  3. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn Senior Mod Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    They are both "pure energy". They have the ability to TRANSFER energy thru vacuums and infinite distances. When a light or radio transmitter emits these packages, it loses no mass, just energy. AND it will propagate FOREVER as a function of it's focusing on initial lauch. When they are absorbed, no mass is gained.

    The MASS is a construct of energy/mass duality.. You might have heard of the "laser propelled space probes". About the size of a "sticky dot". That would be POWERED by giant lasers from earth. Hitting a small piece of "tiny mass object" with a giant laser that doesn't "fry them" will cause an absorption of TINY amounts of energy. That absorption is a kinetic energy "kick" -- but no MASS is transferred in the process. In a way -- it must have "POTENTIAL" mass to cause an energy transfer without violating Newtonian basic physics..

    Both light photons and EM signals are self-contained energy packets. They DIFFER in their properties of wavelength within the 2 phenomenon. For radio waves, propagation is different for Low Freq RF versus High Frequency RF. With the LATTER being "line of sight" propagation -- more like photons. Thus the higher excitation energies of the higher frequencies affect their propagation characteristics.
     
  4. Crepitus
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    Em signals are photons aren't they? Just higher and lower energy than visible light?
     
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    Electromagnetic waves do NOT have mass, and it does not have poles.
     
  6. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn Senior Mod Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Not exactly. "photon" is often used as generalized term for all EM packets of energy. But photons manifest in a differing form. They are not "bound up" by a self-contained EM field. Or at least, I'm unaware of any Physics resolution that makes that representation. They adhere more closely to the quantum descriptions of "pure energy". And although they can be modulated to carry information just like radio waves, they don't lend to themselves well to frequency (FM) modulation because shifting "colors" of light is not as easy.

    The main difference is in the atomic scale GENERATION of these fields and waves.. For all practical purposes all differing characteristics between a light photon and any EM "photon" is due to the SIZE of it's wavelength or frequency.

    Electromagnetic radiation - Continuous spectra of electromagnetic radiation

    Forms Of Electromagnetic Radiation
    Electromagnetic radiation appears in a wide variety of forms and manifestations. Yet, these diverse phenomena are understood to comprise a single aspect of nature, following simple physical principles. Common to all forms is the fact that electromagnetic radiation interacts with and is generated by electric charges. The apparent differences in the phenomena arise from the question in which environment and under what circumstances can charges respond on the time scale of the frequency ν of the radiation.

    At smaller frequencies ν (smaller than 1012 hertz), electric charges typically are the freely moving electrons in the metal components of antennas or the free electrons and ions in space that give rise to phenomena related to radio waves, radar waves, and microwaves. At higher frequencies (1012 to 5 × 1014 hertz), in the infrared region of the spectrum, the moving charges are primarily associated with the rotations and vibrations of molecules and the motions of atomsbonded together in materials. Electromagnetic radiation in the visible range to X-rays have frequencies that correspond to charges within atoms, whereas gamma rays are associated with frequencies of charges within atomic nuclei. The characteristics of electromagnetic radiation occurring in the different regions of the spectrum are described in this section.
     
  7. Crepitus
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    Huh. I'm not a physicist or anything, I just read a lot. I must have misunderstood something or missed something cause I thought everything from gamma rays on down was photons of varying energy levels.
     
  8. toobfreak
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    You are confusing the FORCE (electromagnetic waves, which vary in frequency/wave length) with the FORCE CARRIER.
     
  9. watchingfromafar
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    And this force carrier has "mass"
     
  10. toobfreak
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    JESUS CRIMINY. Where did you people get your physics educations, off the back of a cereal box? I've already explained this. FlacCalTenn has explained it. NO MASS! The only force carrier that has mass are the w and z bosons (convey the weak nuclear force). How can a photon have mass when it travels at the speed of light? To do otherwise violates Special Relativity. How can a photon have mass when it must obey the Bose-Einstein state allowing an infinite number of photons to occupy the same space?

    The photon conveys the medium / quantum energy packets by which the electromagnetic wave structure is allowed to exist and propagate. But it is the charged lepton (an elementary particle) that conveys charge, polarity, direction and spin of the electronic field that all radiation is made out of, from high energy gamma rays down to the lowly radio wave. Can't make it any more succinct than that.
     
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