What Happens When You Import People Who Dont Believe in Multiculturialism?

[protectionist]

That racist fuck is probably too busy getting ready a big KKK meeting right now.

Equating simple American protectionism against the multiculturalism of Mexico's invaders, with the KKK and racism, is about as dumb a post that could ever be posted in USMB.

Agreed. Very dumb post.

The harms to Americans from the immigration of these international thieves has nothing to do with race, but the immigrationists just can't resist waving the race card around, can they ? You define yourself.

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($40 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

Um... not so much.

1. Jobs are lost because we have made ourselves uncompetitive with other countries, by the increase in taxes, regulations, and mandates on business. Stop the regulation, stop the taxes, stop the mandates, and jobs will come back, with or without immigration controls.

2. It's true the wages have declined with an increase in population, because supply of labor, verses the demand for labor, determines price. Increasing supply, reduces price.

However, the real solution to this, is to simply do things that have a higher value. Learn to do accounting, instead of burger flipping. Learn to do engineering instead of assembly work. If you spend your life waiting around for other people to make you more wealthy, you'll end up both old, bitter, and poor.

3. Not true. Just not true. Two people earning $30K, will have more tax revenue, than one person earning $35K. There is no case to be made, that wages have fallen by more than a few percentage points at best. Zero evidence they have fallen by over 30%. Just not true.

4. Also not true. Money that goes out, always comes back. If we were losing dollars, then the money supply should be shrinking, resulting in currency deflation. There is no evidence that there is any significant deflation, or that the money supply has fallen.

5. While this is in fact true, it's also massively dwarfed by native citizens on welfare. Yes, a tiny fraction of welfare and other government hand outs, goes to immigrants. But the vast majority of the money from welfare and other programs, is going to our natural born citizens, milking the system as much as they can. The solution there isn't to stem the small fraction of immigrant welfare, but to cancel welfare completely.

6. Also somewhat true, but again, completely dwarfed by natural citizen crime. The solution there, isn't to target immigrant crime, but rather focus on crime in general, and get back to putting people in hard labor. Hang them for severe crimes. Then you won't have to worry about either immigrant or natural citizen crime.

7. If they are driving to work, and being a benefit to the country, I don't have a problem with traffic. If they are riding around on tax payer subsidized busses, and causing traffic, while not work... ok that's an issue with me.

8. All humans cause pollution. If we are going to get rid of people because of pollution, then we should start with ourselves. Not a logical reason.

9. Yes hospital over crowding is a problem, but not related to immigration. Canada has over crowding problems. UK does. France does. Pretty much every country in which the government provides free hospital service, has over crowding issues. That's not going to change with immigration, it's a problem with socialism.

10. I have not seen any problem here. Not sure what that refers to.

11. Get rid of government offices. That problem will go away.

12. Again, socialism is the problem. Adopt a free market capitalist based education system, and that problem will disappear.

13. Not true. The problem with entitlements is that they are entitlements, and are not sustainable. The Soviet Union collasped even while people were scrambling to escape it. People were leaving the country by the droves, that's why the Berlin wall was built in the first place. Yet that even with zero immigrants, and people leaving by the day, the resources and wealth declined. The problem again, is socialism, not immigration.

14. I don't think so. I don't think immigration is what is ruining culture. I think our culture has ruined ourselves. Any culture that doesn't believe in right and wrong, and absolute truths, will always fail, and destroy itself. In fact, the biggest decline in culture is attributed to the simplest of concepts.... that parents pass on their culture to children. We have ruined that in two ways. First because families have fewer kids. Second, because we have so many broken families which ruin kids.

When you have very few kids, and when you break the family apart so that kids are ruined.... both result in culture not being passed on to the next generation. That's the problem, not immigration.

We've always had immigration, but we have for 200 years, passed on our culture with large intact families. Immigration today, is a symptom of the vacuum left by our selfish desire to have few kids, and our selfish desire to break up families because "I'm not happy...". That's the source of our cultural decline.

15. As resources become scarce, the price will increase with the fall of supply. As the price goes up, conservation will happen automatically. With, or without immigration, this will happen naturally as the laws of economics says.

16. That also will happen, with or without immigration. The world is a very small place today. My manager, and CEO, both went to China just a month ago. The ability to transmit diseases is very easy now. That's not going to change, regardless of immigration policy.

1. You changed the subject. I was talking about immigration (domestic outsourcing), and you started talking about international outsourcing. They are 2 different things. So what if jobs come back ? They have little to do with immigration jobs. These immigration jobs are the jobs that can only be done INSIDE the US (landscaping, construction, janitorial, hotels, etc)

2. Immigration pertains to ALL sectors of the employment spectrum. Hi-tech companies fill engineering and science jobs with cheap labor immigrants on work visas, and lie that there aren't Americans to fill those jobs. As for the lesser skilled jobs, some people might not be able to do anything more (or want to). No reason why they should be displaced by foreigners.

3. You're talking nonsense. First of all if wages fell by 30%, that's a lot. How many US workers would be comfortable with a 30% reduction in pay ? Uh, none ? And in general, the 8 million jobs filled by illegal aliens pay well below the American standard. So for all these jobs, the wages have been reduced significantly. Significantly enough to the employer to have him violate the US IRCA law, and risk and possible jail time. Then you have the various work visa jobs, also well below the wages of Americans. Why do you think employers seek out these people ? Because of a labor shortage ? Not hardly. When there's a labor shortage wages are up. But they're not. They're down. Sure. Because that's what the foreigners will accept, and employers boost their profits by reducing their costs.
These harmful effects of the immigration system were recognized in the reports of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform in the mid 1990s. The Commission’s immigration reform recommendations were welcomed by President Clinton and submitted to Congress, but have largely been ignored since then. Conditions for America’s poorest workers have continued to deteriorate because of both illegal and legal immigration.
This report contains the following findings >>>
> In 2009, less than 6 percent of legal immigrants were admitted because they possessed skills deemed essential to the U.S. economy.
> Studies that find minimal or no negative effects on native workers from low-skill immigration are based upon flawed assumptions and skewed economic models, not upon observations of actual labor market conditions.
> There is no such thing as an “immigrant job.” The reality is that immigrants and natives compete for the same jobs and native workers are increasingly at a disadvantage because employers have access to a steady supply of low-wage foreign workers.
In addition to the USCIR report, research done by the Center for American Progress has found that reducing the illegal alien population in the United States by one-third would raise the income of unskilled workers by $400 a year.
And as a result of these lower wages + the many off-the books jobs, the USA, of course, loses tax $$$, just like I said.

4. HA HA. You're talking ridiculous. There's evidence all over the place of the money supply haven fallen, and continuing to fall every year. Banco de Mexico (Mexico's central bank) routinely publishes remittances reports and in recent years, has shown around $25 billion/year being extracted from the US economy, re-inserted into the Mexican economy. The money comes back ? HA HA. Yeah ? How ? By some kind of jet stream that picks it up and flys it across the border ?
EARTH TO ANDROW: I've heard this absurd talking point 1000 times. No one has ever presented a basis for it, including you now. Oh gee, just look at all the Mexican tourists flocking into the US to spend their money here. Yeah, right. I lived in New York City for 30 years, and saw thousands of tourists. I never saw a single Mexican. No, the money does NOT come back, and there is no reason to show that it does. It is total LOSS.

5. FALSE! The truth is just the opposite of what you say. Immigrants get welfare at a higher rate than native born citizens.
In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.
Immigrant households’ use of welfare tends to be much higher than natives for food assistance programs and Medicaid.
A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households with children is received on behalf of their U.S.-born children, who are American citizens. But even households with children comprised entirely of immigrants (no U.S.-born children) still had a welfare use rate of 56 percent in 2009.
Immigrant households with children used welfare programs at consistently higher rates than natives, even before the current recession. In 2001, 50 percent of all immigrant households with children used at least one welfare program, compared to 32 percent for natives.
https://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

6. No isn't "somewhat" true. It is just TRUE. Plain & simple. You bring more people into the country. Some % of them commit crime and ADD to the total crime count. As for your description of comparison, for your edification, legal immigrants (those vetted) tend to have a slightly lower crime rate than natives citizens. However, because of the inefficiency of the immigration processing, many legal immigrants are just rubber stamped in and not vetted at all. This drives up the crime rate among legal immigrants. Among illegals who cross the border EWI, they are ALL criminals just by that act alone. In addition, though, their crime rate is known to be astronomical compared to US citizens, including numerous murders.
FNCIC-VOIACM Foreign National Crime Information Center - Victims of Illegal Alien Crime Memorial
Victims of Illegal Aliens Memorial
As for "solution", you're changing the subject again. This isn't about solving crime in general, Sure there's lots we could do about that. But the subject here is harms of immigration, and the ADDITIONAL crime we get from immigration is one of them.

7. You can not have a problem with traffic all day long. So what ? The FACT is the American people have a problem with it, all over the country, and the more people you stuff into the country, the more traffic (and congestion) you have. And when the immigrants are driving to work (rush hour), that's the biggest part of the problem.

8. HA HA. Oh that was a good one. NO, we don't start deporting ourselves. Yes, all people cause pollution. And the more people we have, the more pollution we have. Duh!!

9. Of course hospital overcrowding is related to immigration. You've been pretty ridiculous thus far, but now you're really going over the top. Everybody knows the ER situation. We all know about EMTALA and immigrants use of the ERs, and the shortage of hospital rooms. Just go into a hospital and watch how long it takes you to get a room, and then go around counting how many patients are speaking Spanish.
As for changing with immigration, of course it would. If 12 million illegals were deported, and a moratorium was done on visas, hospitals would quickly be roomier and hospital staffs wouldn't be so overworked, and could deliver better quality care. And how many hospitals have flat of disappeared because of giving unpaid care to immigrants ? (especially illegals)

10. Maybe you're not sure what it refers to. I am. It refers to every type of outdoor facility in America offering recreational facilities (ice skating, bowling, fishing piers, baseball fields, etc) All more crowded with the ADDITIONAL population from immigration.

11. HA HA. No comment even necessary. (except to say > you mean the immigrants are more important than the govt offices ?) This is getting to be too funny now.

12. One slight problem there. The American people DON"T WANT only a free market private education system only. They what what they have, and have had for decades. That is a combination of the 2. And I agree with them. And immigration is caused gross overcrowding and a reduction of educational quality.

13. There you go changing the subject again. We're talking about US entitlements and the funds$$$ available for them, not the Soviet Union and its decline (which was more due to military and space overspending, not socialism-so you didn't even get that right either) The more we spend on immigrants, and everything associated with them, the less we have for Social Security, VA pensions, etc

14. Another change of the subject (did you really think all this diversion stuff would fly in here ? this is a pretty intelligent forum) The cultural erosion from immigration pertains primarily to language. Nothing like hiring a security guard who can't speak English, and suddenly needs to call 911. Or the cab driver who knows only his foreign language and you tell him to go EAST, and he starts driving WEST at 90 MPH.

15. EARTH TO ANDROW: The American people DON'T WANT their gas prices to go up. Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle ) And if the prices of water and oil and gas at the pump, and everything else goes up, THAT'S A BAD THING. Get it ?

16. YES it is going to change with immigration. And it does every day, as immigrants bring diseases into the country.
a. The more people you have, the more infectious diseases you have going around (flu, pnuemonia, TB, AIDS, hepatitis, etc)
b. By coming from foreign countries, immigrants bring microbes into the country that were heretofore not present, and dangerous to Americans not resistant to them.This is similar to when Europeans arrived in the US in the 17th and 18th centuries, and spread smallpox to the unprepared American Indians. Among two of the most serious diseases coming from Mexico are dengue fever and leprosy. Malaria is also a problem from tropical countries.
Sure, the introduction of foreign diseases happens with or without immigration. But it INCREASES drastically with immigration.

In conclusion, your post gave me a workout because of the length of it, but on the bright side, we also got quite a few good LAUGHS from it. LOL. Be advised, most of what you posted is a joke, and this is a serious forum.

 

[protectionist]

the immgirants who want to leave the third world and the 12th century behind... do just fine.


There are quite a few who do not want to leave it in the past.... but live in it.

this country was made on immigrants. but they used to assimilate..

They still do. If anything, more quickly than previous generations.

FALSE! I've met hundreds of illegal aliens in 4 different states of the US, over the course of 40 years. I've spoken to many of them (in Spanish of course) They are generally all the same. They have no interest in being American. Their entire culture remains of the country they came from (mostly Mexico). They're interested in American $$ and how many of them they can stuff in their pockets and send out of the country, and how they can play the system to get more. They speak only Spanish, watch Spanish TV, watch soccer (not baseball or American football), play Latin music, and are oblivious to American history.
It's just how they are, and I see no difference between the current crop and those of the 1970s.

 

[Statistikhengst]

this country was made on immigrants. but they used to assimilate..

They still do. If anything, more quickly than previous generations.

FALSE! I've met hundreds of illegal aliens in 4 different states of the US, over the course of 40 years. I've spoken to many of them (in Spanish of course) They are generally all the same. They have no interest in being American. Their entire culture remains of the country they came from (mostly Mexico). They're interested in American $$ and how many of them they can stuff in their pockets and send out of the country, and how they can play the system to get more. They speak only Spanish, watch Spanish TV, watch soccer (not baseball or American football), play Latin music, and are oblivious to American history.
It's just how they are, and I see no difference between the current crop and those of the 1970s.

And your frustrated rant is supposed to be empiric data, or what?

Good Lord, man....

 

[protectionist]

They still do. If anything, more quickly than previous generations.

FALSE! I've met hundreds of illegal aliens in 4 different states of the US, over the course of 40 years. I've spoken to many of them (in Spanish of course) They are generally all the same. They have no interest in being American. Their entire culture remains of the country they came from (mostly Mexico). They're interested in American $$ and how many of them they can stuff in their pockets and send out of the country, and how they can play the system to get more. They speak only Spanish, watch Spanish TV, watch soccer (not baseball or American football), play Latin music, and are oblivious to American history.
It's just how they are, and I see no difference between the current crop and those of the 1970s.

And your frustrated rant is supposed to be empiric data, or what?

Good Lord, man....

Well "good lord, man", let's just say that I'm not one of the people who gets all tingly or sweaty, every time I hear the word "study" or "data", both of which are routinely honed to produce what the backers of those studies want them to produce. And for every 20 studies suggesting a particular point, you can ordinarily find 10 more suggesting just the opposite. Ho hum. What else is new ?

Sometimes studies are accurate and true. In some cases, they are inaccurate and false. One thing that stays accurate all the time though, is the statistics of one's eyes and ears. Generally, what one sees, one can believe. And these are the most underrated studies in existence. They don't lie. If a study tells me a river's water is clean and pure, and it appears green, heavy in eutrophication, looks bad and smells worse, I don't believe that study. I believe my senses. If you want to be the sap who falls for the study, you can do that.

So to answer your original question, yeah, my frustrated post, based on direct observation, and similar ones of dozens of other people, is empirical data, indeed. The best kind there is. Didn't you know ?

As for your signature >> much depends on whose math you're talking about.

 

[Unkotare]

Projectionist never lets reality get in the way of his fears and prejudice.

 

[Unkotare]

Hispanic immigrants are assimilating just as quickly as earlier groups


Latinos Learn English Faster Than Previous Immigrants, Study Finds


http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/09/pdf/immigrant_assimilation.pdf

 

[JakeStarkey]

What Happens When You Import People Who Dont Believe in Multiculturialism? Then you have more folks like Publius.

 

[protectionist]

Projectionist never lets reality get in the way of his fears and prejudice.

Unaware prowls around on the trolling circuit, whenever somebody leaves the cage door open. They've got to stop doing that. As for "reality" ? Well, Unaware is just > unaware of it. Back to your cage, Unaware!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Protectionist is permitted to stay for grins and chuckles, only.

 

[protectionist]

Protectionist is permitted to stay for grins and chuckles, only.

As the Rock of WWE fame would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER" >>> what Islamist Muslim, illegal aliens, who are also illegal aliens themselves, say. Not at all.

 

[Andylusion]

Um... not so much.

1. Jobs are lost because we have made ourselves uncompetitive with other countries, by the increase in taxes, regulations, and mandates on business. Stop the regulation, stop the taxes, stop the mandates, and jobs will come back, with or without immigration controls.

2. It's true the wages have declined with an increase in population, because supply of labor, verses the demand for labor, determines price. Increasing supply, reduces price.

However, the real solution to this, is to simply do things that have a higher value. Learn to do accounting, instead of burger flipping. Learn to do engineering instead of assembly work. If you spend your life waiting around for other people to make you more wealthy, you'll end up both old, bitter, and poor.

3. Not true. Just not true. Two people earning $30K, will have more tax revenue, than one person earning $35K. There is no case to be made, that wages have fallen by more than a few percentage points at best. Zero evidence they have fallen by over 30%. Just not true.

4. Also not true. Money that goes out, always comes back. If we were losing dollars, then the money supply should be shrinking, resulting in currency deflation. There is no evidence that there is any significant deflation, or that the money supply has fallen.

5. While this is in fact true, it's also massively dwarfed by native citizens on welfare. Yes, a tiny fraction of welfare and other government hand outs, goes to immigrants. But the vast majority of the money from welfare and other programs, is going to our natural born citizens, milking the system as much as they can. The solution there isn't to stem the small fraction of immigrant welfare, but to cancel welfare completely.

6. Also somewhat true, but again, completely dwarfed by natural citizen crime. The solution there, isn't to target immigrant crime, but rather focus on crime in general, and get back to putting people in hard labor. Hang them for severe crimes. Then you won't have to worry about either immigrant or natural citizen crime.

7. If they are driving to work, and being a benefit to the country, I don't have a problem with traffic. If they are riding around on tax payer subsidized busses, and causing traffic, while not work... ok that's an issue with me.

8. All humans cause pollution. If we are going to get rid of people because of pollution, then we should start with ourselves. Not a logical reason.

9. Yes hospital over crowding is a problem, but not related to immigration. Canada has over crowding problems. UK does. France does. Pretty much every country in which the government provides free hospital service, has over crowding issues. That's not going to change with immigration, it's a problem with socialism.

10. I have not seen any problem here. Not sure what that refers to.

11. Get rid of government offices. That problem will go away.

12. Again, socialism is the problem. Adopt a free market capitalist based education system, and that problem will disappear.

13. Not true. The problem with entitlements is that they are entitlements, and are not sustainable. The Soviet Union collasped even while people were scrambling to escape it. People were leaving the country by the droves, that's why the Berlin wall was built in the first place. Yet that even with zero immigrants, and people leaving by the day, the resources and wealth declined. The problem again, is socialism, not immigration.

14. I don't think so. I don't think immigration is what is ruining culture. I think our culture has ruined ourselves. Any culture that doesn't believe in right and wrong, and absolute truths, will always fail, and destroy itself. In fact, the biggest decline in culture is attributed to the simplest of concepts.... that parents pass on their culture to children. We have ruined that in two ways. First because families have fewer kids. Second, because we have so many broken families which ruin kids.

When you have very few kids, and when you break the family apart so that kids are ruined.... both result in culture not being passed on to the next generation. That's the problem, not immigration.

We've always had immigration, but we have for 200 years, passed on our culture with large intact families. Immigration today, is a symptom of the vacuum left by our selfish desire to have few kids, and our selfish desire to break up families because "I'm not happy...". That's the source of our cultural decline.

15. As resources become scarce, the price will increase with the fall of supply. As the price goes up, conservation will happen automatically. With, or without immigration, this will happen naturally as the laws of economics says.

16. That also will happen, with or without immigration. The world is a very small place today. My manager, and CEO, both went to China just a month ago. The ability to transmit diseases is very easy now. That's not going to change, regardless of immigration policy.

1. You changed the subject. I was talking about immigration (domestic outsourcing), and you started talking about international outsourcing. They are 2 different things. So what if jobs come back ? They have little to do with immigration jobs. These immigration jobs are the jobs that can only be done INSIDE the US (landscaping, construction, janitorial, hotels, etc)

2. Immigration pertains to ALL sectors of the employment spectrum. Hi-tech companies fill engineering and science jobs with cheap labor immigrants on work visas, and lie that there aren't Americans to fill those jobs. As for the lesser skilled jobs, some people might not be able to do anything more (or want to). No reason why they should be displaced by foreigners.

3. You're talking nonsense. First of all if wages fell by 30%, that's a lot. How many US workers would be comfortable with a 30% reduction in pay ? Uh, none ? And in general, the 8 million jobs filled by illegal aliens pay well below the American standard. So for all these jobs, the wages have been reduced significantly. Significantly enough to the employer to have him violate the US IRCA law, and risk and possible jail time. Then you have the various work visa jobs, also well below the wages of Americans. Why do you think employers seek out these people ? Because of a labor shortage ? Not hardly. When there's a labor shortage wages are up. But they're not. They're down. Sure. Because that's what the foreigners will accept, and employers boost their profits by reducing their costs.
These harmful effects of the immigration system were recognized in the reports of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform in the mid 1990s. The Commission’s immigration reform recommendations were welcomed by President Clinton and submitted to Congress, but have largely been ignored since then. Conditions for America’s poorest workers have continued to deteriorate because of both illegal and legal immigration.
This report contains the following findings >>>
> In 2009, less than 6 percent of legal immigrants were admitted because they possessed skills deemed essential to the U.S. economy.
> Studies that find minimal or no negative effects on native workers from low-skill immigration are based upon flawed assumptions and skewed economic models, not upon observations of actual labor market conditions.
> There is no such thing as an “immigrant job.” The reality is that immigrants and natives compete for the same jobs and native workers are increasingly at a disadvantage because employers have access to a steady supply of low-wage foreign workers.
In addition to the USCIR report, research done by the Center for American Progress has found that reducing the illegal alien population in the United States by one-third would raise the income of unskilled workers by $400 a year.
And as a result of these lower wages + the many off-the books jobs, the USA, of course, loses tax $$$, just like I said.

4. HA HA. You're talking ridiculous. There's evidence all over the place of the money supply haven fallen, and continuing to fall every year. Banco de Mexico (Mexico's central bank) routinely publishes remittances reports and in recent years, has shown around $25 billion/year being extracted from the US economy, re-inserted into the Mexican economy. The money comes back ? HA HA. Yeah ? How ? By some kind of jet stream that picks it up and flys it across the border ?
EARTH TO ANDROW: I've heard this absurd talking point 1000 times. No one has ever presented a basis for it, including you now. Oh gee, just look at all the Mexican tourists flocking into the US to spend their money here. Yeah, right. I lived in New York City for 30 years, and saw thousands of tourists. I never saw a single Mexican. No, the money does NOT come back, and there is no reason to show that it does. It is total LOSS.

5. FALSE! The truth is just the opposite of what you say. Immigrants get welfare at a higher rate than native born citizens.
In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.
Immigrant households’ use of welfare tends to be much higher than natives for food assistance programs and Medicaid.
A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households with children is received on behalf of their U.S.-born children, who are American citizens. But even households with children comprised entirely of immigrants (no U.S.-born children) still had a welfare use rate of 56 percent in 2009.
Immigrant households with children used welfare programs at consistently higher rates than natives, even before the current recession. In 2001, 50 percent of all immigrant households with children used at least one welfare program, compared to 32 percent for natives.
https://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

6. No isn't "somewhat" true. It is just TRUE. Plain & simple. You bring more people into the country. Some % of them commit crime and ADD to the total crime count. As for your description of comparison, for your edification, legal immigrants (those vetted) tend to have a slightly lower crime rate than natives citizens. However, because of the inefficiency of the immigration processing, many legal immigrants are just rubber stamped in and not vetted at all. This drives up the crime rate among legal immigrants. Among illegals who cross the border EWI, they are ALL criminals just by that act alone. In addition, though, their crime rate is known to be astronomical compared to US citizens, including numerous murders.
FNCIC-VOIACM Foreign National Crime Information Center - Victims of Illegal Alien Crime Memorial
Victims of Illegal Aliens Memorial
As for "solution", you're changing the subject again. This isn't about solving crime in general, Sure there's lots we could do about that. But the subject here is harms of immigration, and the ADDITIONAL crime we get from immigration is one of them.

7. You can not have a problem with traffic all day long. So what ? The FACT is the American people have a problem with it, all over the country, and the more people you stuff into the country, the more traffic (and congestion) you have. And when the immigrants are driving to work (rush hour), that's the biggest part of the problem.

8. HA HA. Oh that was a good one. NO, we don't start deporting ourselves. Yes, all people cause pollution. And the more people we have, the more pollution we have. Duh!!

9. Of course hospital overcrowding is related to immigration. You've been pretty ridiculous thus far, but now you're really going over the top. Everybody knows the ER situation. We all know about EMTALA and immigrants use of the ERs, and the shortage of hospital rooms. Just go into a hospital and watch how long it takes you to get a room, and then go around counting how many patients are speaking Spanish.
As for changing with immigration, of course it would. If 12 million illegals were deported, and a moratorium was done on visas, hospitals would quickly be roomier and hospital staffs wouldn't be so overworked, and could deliver better quality care. And how many hospitals have flat of disappeared because of giving unpaid care to immigrants ? (especially illegals)

10. Maybe you're not sure what it refers to. I am. It refers to every type of outdoor facility in America offering recreational facilities (ice skating, bowling, fishing piers, baseball fields, etc) All more crowded with the ADDITIONAL population from immigration.

11. HA HA. No comment even necessary. (except to say > you mean the immigrants are more important than the govt offices ?) This is getting to be too funny now.

12. One slight problem there. The American people DON"T WANT only a free market private education system only. They what what they have, and have had for decades. That is a combination of the 2. And I agree with them. And immigration is caused gross overcrowding and a reduction of educational quality.

13. There you go changing the subject again. We're talking about US entitlements and the funds$$$ available for them, not the Soviet Union and its decline (which was more due to military and space overspending, not socialism-so you didn't even get that right either) The more we spend on immigrants, and everything associated with them, the less we have for Social Security, VA pensions, etc

14. Another change of the subject (did you really think all this diversion stuff would fly in here ? this is a pretty intelligent forum) The cultural erosion from immigration pertains primarily to language. Nothing like hiring a security guard who can't speak English, and suddenly needs to call 911. Or the cab driver who knows only his foreign language and you tell him to go EAST, and he starts driving WEST at 90 MPH.

15. EARTH TO ANDROW: The American people DON'T WANT their gas prices to go up. Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle ) And if the prices of water and oil and gas at the pump, and everything else goes up, THAT'S A BAD THING. Get it ?

16. YES it is going to change with immigration. And it does every day, as immigrants bring diseases into the country.
a. The more people you have, the more infectious diseases you have going around (flu, pnuemonia, TB, AIDS, hepatitis, etc)
b. By coming from foreign countries, immigrants bring microbes into the country that were heretofore not present, and dangerous to Americans not resistant to them.This is similar to when Europeans arrived in the US in the 17th and 18th centuries, and spread smallpox to the unprepared American Indians. Among two of the most serious diseases coming from Mexico are dengue fever and leprosy. Malaria is also a problem from tropical countries.
Sure, the introduction of foreign diseases happens with or without immigration. But it INCREASES drastically with immigration.

blaw blaw blaw.

1. Then the claim is completely wrong. I know many white people that have those jobs. So apparently they are not "losing their jobs".

2. Again, yes it does, but not by any significant amount. The company I work for right now, does not have any foreign engineers, and they are all paid very well. Also, why would you assume that one human being, is of greater importance than another? It sounds like more spoiled brat entitlement mentality "I'm an American and therefore I deserve this job and deserve this wage, and no one from another country is allowed". I don't agree with that mentality, IF that is what you are saying.

3. Like I said before.... wages have *NOT* fallen by 30%, or any significant amount. Can't you read? I was fairly clear in the last post. Further, your citation didn't provide anything that contradicted what I said, and in fact, proved what I said. Cutting immigration by 1/3rd, would increase wages by $400 a year? You do realize that $400 a year is less than 20¢ an hour? If that's all immigrants has lowered wages, then clearly as I said before, wages have not fallen by any significant amount.

4. You have proven yourself ignorant of how the money system works. It is not possible to 'extract' dollars from the US, and re-inserted into the Mexican economy..... why? Because they don't trade in dollars. If the Mexican government handed out USD to the workers, what would they do with them? Go to the store, hand the cashier a US dollar, and wait while the cashier stood there blankly staring at them? Mexico trades in Pesos. They don't use dollars. It is impossible, to 're-insert' US Dollars into an economy that trades in Pesos. You can't pay the electric bill with dollars in Mexico. You can't buy coffee with dollars in Mexico. Very ignorant comment.

5.

Nearly 80% of those on welfare are native citizens of the US. You are wrong.

6. Yes, I'm changing the subject, because your position was absolutely stupid. So, you don't care about the 90% of crime caused by citizens, but that 7% caused by immigrants is all that matters? That's the logic of an idiot. Either deal with *CRIME*, or forget about it. What moron says "let's deal with crime! Let's hire 10 thousand people to hunt for J-Walkers because crime is a problem!" That's effectively your position. Let's deal with this tiny sliver of crime by immigrants.... what about the rest? "This isn't about solving crime in general" Ok well then if it isn't, then I don't give a crap about your complaint. Because solving the crime problem is the goal, or you are wasting our time.

7. But see immigrants working, is a benefit to the country, just as me working is a benefit to the country. If traffic is a bigger problem, than the benefit of having more people work, then we should all quit our jobs, and solve the traffic problem. Again, this is just plain stupid logic on your part.

8. Yes, and it's still not a valid justification for not having more people in our country.

9. I have been to the ER twice in the past 5 years. Both times I went to a private, pay-for-service hospital. Both times, I was seen in under 20 minutes. Both times I was treated in a matter of hours. Both times I got a bill, and both times I paid the bill in full. Yes it cost several thousand dollars, and yet it was worth it in both cases. Yes, there were a few Spanish speaking patients. And lastly, YES, if you go to the community, government funded subsidized hospitals that take people who don't pay, there are lines 3 hours long, whether there are immigrants there or not. Again, it's a problem with socialism, not immigration.

10. I guess I don't have a problem with that. In my experience, most of those places are nearly un-used by people. If some immigrants want to use the park, that is routinely nearly empty, what do I care? Should I be so arrogant, that only I, and other people like me should be allowed to enjoy the park? Why not allow immigrants to use it?

11. Immigrants don't hurt me. Government does. I have never been forced to pay an immigrant anything. I am forced to pay government every day of my life.

12. Well then the people are stupid, and you are just trying to blame shift. What we have sucks. If they want something that sucks, then people are dumb, and I don't care what they want. If you have an alcoholic brother-in-law, and he demands more beer... what he wants doesn't matter, because he's harming himself. If what you say is true, and the public really wants a system that is more expensive than any other system on the planet, and yet less effective than any other system on the planet, then people are morons. Blaming immigrants, when the public is moronic, is just blame shifting.

13. If you could make the case that immigrants are the cause of those programs failing, then I would agree you have a point. The problem is, the programs themselves, are failing themselves, regardless of immigrants. Thus pointing to immigrants, is just a scapegoat for the failure of socialism.

14. If the only loss of our culture, was merely language, then you have no argument whatsoever. English is taught throughout the world. There is no danger that in the next 10 years, America will be dominated by Spanish. English is dominate throughout a good part of Africa, and nearly all of Europe, and here you are complaining because the guy at Wendy's asked you if you wanted fries with that, with an accent? That's your concern? Get over it. Not a valid argument.

15. Doesn't matter. Again, you are showing your ignorance of economics. If the claim that resources are being used up is true, then prices will rise, regardless of what the people want, and regardless of immigration. This is an unavoidable economic law. It doesn't change, just because you want to make up some dumb reason to stop immigration.

16. Again, totally wrong. If you can't grasp this, then no one can help you, because this is as simple a concept as you can possibly get. Forest Gump could grasp this.

From 2000 to 2010, there have been over 500 Million tourists into the US from other countries. Keep in mind, we only have 310 Million people.
In the same time span, 600 Million Americans have been tourists into other countries.

Add in all the US deployments, and personnel stationed out of the country.

Travelers move parasites, bugs, and illnesses across boarders every single year. There is nothing special about immigration, over any of that. Foreign guys come here and have sex with our easy women, and our guys go there and pay women for sex in their countries. The transferring of illness is very common, and won't stop with immigration control.

 

[protectionist]

Immigrants don't hurt me. Government does. I have never been forced to pay an immigrant anything. I am forced to pay government every day of my life.

Nah, they don't hurt you. They help you to boost your profits by providing you with cheap labor (at the expense of millions of American workers) Or they fill up empty pews in your withering church. Or they pay you union dues that nobody else was doing. Or you're one of them yourself. You already established yourself in your last post as totally full of crap, and a laughingstock in this forum. I spent a lot of time answering your ludicrous post, that never deserved the dignity of a response. No, I'm not going to get bogged down with your assininity. I'll just ask you one thing. What's your game, dude ? You're an employer of illegal aliens ? You're an employer of H1-B visa aliens ? You're a pastor in a church with a declining congregation ? You're a union leader with a declining membership ?

You're getting too active to be just another poster. They don't act the way you do, You've got a vested interest. It would be nice to know why you're coming in here and making an idiot out of yourself.

You can come in here lying your ass off like your are, but it won't get you anywhere. I've already refuted you, and readers here aren't stupid enough to fall for your BS, and I'm not going to waste my time with your loon posts. This isn't a subject for debate. Everybody knows the harms of immigration.

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($40 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

 

[protectionist]

this country was made on immigrants. but they used to assimilate..

They still do. If anything, more quickly than previous generations.

FALSE! I've met hundreds of illegal aliens in 4 different states of the US, over the course of 40 years. I've spoken to many of them (in Spanish of course) They are generally all the same. They have no interest in being American. Their entire culture remains of the country they came from (mostly Mexico). They're interested in American $$ and how many of them they can stuff in their pockets and send out of the country, and how they can play the system to get more. They speak only Spanish, watch Spanish TV, watch soccer (not baseball or American football), play Latin music, and are oblivious to American history.
It's just how they are, and I see no difference between the current crop and those of the 1970s.

And your frustrated rant is supposed to be empiric data, or what?

Good Lord, man....

"Empiric data" > Is only a LIBERAL thing (when supplied by liberal professors, universities, think tanks, associations, et, of course. HO HUM. YAWN ***

Or what ? Consider common sense.

 

[Statistikhengst]

this country was made on immigrants. but they used to assimilate..

They still do. If anything, more quickly than previous generations.

FALSE! I've met hundreds of illegal aliens in 4 different states of the US, over the course of 40 years. I've spoken to many of them (in Spanish of course) They are generally all the same. They have no interest in being American. Their entire culture remains of the country they came from (mostly Mexico). They're interested in American $$ and how many of them they can stuff in their pockets and send out of the country, and how they can play the system to get more. They speak only Spanish, watch Spanish TV, watch soccer (not baseball or American football), play Latin music, and are oblivious to American history.
It's just how they are, and I see no difference between the current crop and those of the 1970s.

And your frustrated rant is supposed to be empiric data, or what?

Good Lord, man....

"Empiric data" > Is only a LIBERAL thing (when supplied by liberal professors, universities, think tanks, associations, et, of course. HO HUM. YAWN ***

Or what ? Consider common sense.

So, you really are that stupid. I am so surprised.