What do each side want in the debt ceiling deal?

[Avatar4321]

I was thinking about the positions of each party on the debt ceiling earlier today.

Republicans want 1) To avoid raising the debt ceiling & 2) To get significant spending cuts & 3) to avoid increasing taxes to burden the people

Democrats want 1) To raise taxes & 2) To raise the debt ceiling & 3) To avoid spending cuts.

The so called "deal" being proposed is that Republicans should capitulate now on raising taxes and raising the debt ceiling for a promise for "cuts" 12 years from now when no one currently in power will still control the government and be able to enforce any deal now.

Now let's just look at that compromise here without the partisan emotion attached. Just pretend two groups are negotiating and in order to reach a "compromise" one group has to completely capitulate on 2 of their requests to get a vague promise of doing something in the future on the 3rd one while the other group immediately gets 2 things they want while promising something they are sure they can avoid doing in the future.

Does anyone honestly say would be a fair compromise if this was a business deal or a private deal and that there were no emotional politics involved?

You want a fair deal? Democrats get the debt ceiling raise and Republicans get immediate spending cuts. Both parties give up something they want and get something they want. Since the Tax debate is a bit more complex, we can address that next:

Democrats want to increase taxes by 1) Increasing marginal rates and 2) eliminating deductions/exemptions.

Republicans want to 1) Decrease marginal rates and 2) not touch deductions/exemptions

A reasonable compromise here would be that we decrease the marginal rates and eliminate some of the deductions/exemptions that don't hurt average Americans much (such as the Housing costs).

Everyone gets something they really want. Everyone gives up something. I humbly suggest that if we want a reasonable compromise in this matter

Republicans get immediate spending cuts and tax cuts

Democrats get the debt ceiling raised and elimination of tax exemption/deduction

In this deal one side doesn't get everything they want while giving absolutely nothing. I think this compromise is reasonable and I could support such.

 

[Modbert]

The Democrats have put Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on the table. Along with defense cuts.

The GOP want selective spending cuts, least when they're not trying to weasel their way out of dealing with the crisis they helped create.

 

[kyzr]

The Democrats have put Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on the table. Along with defense cuts.

The GOP want selective spending cuts, least when they're not trying to weasel their way out of dealing with the crisis they helped create.

End ALL subsidies
End ALL foreign aid
End ALL tax loopholes
Lower Corporate tax Rates (sweetener to GOP)
Fix Social Security (sweetener for young folks who thought it was gone)
Fix Medicare & Medicaid (tough love for the ones who never contributed, stop Ponzi)
Raise the Debt Ceiling knowing that the Bush Tax Cuts will expire (GOP Tax contribution)

 

[Richard-H]

This whole discussion is nonsense.

Congress is obliged to raise the debt ceiling - it has NOTHING to do with the current budget negotiations.

The Repugs tried to create some link between the two, but it's utter nonsense and they know it.

 

[kyzr]

This whole discussion is nonsense.

Congress is obliged to raise the debt ceiling - it has NOTHING to do with the current budget negotiations.

The Repugs tried to create some link between the two, but it's utter nonsense and they know it.

If we don't do this battle now we'll end up like Greece. Its not utter nonsense, it getting back to fiscal reality.

 

[Modbert]

Lower Corporate tax Rates (sweetener to GOP)
Fix Social Security (sweetener for young folks who thought it was gone)
Fix Medicare & Medicaid (tough love for the ones who never contributed, stop Ponzi)
Raise the Debt Ceiling knowing that the Bush Tax Cuts will expire (GOP Tax contribution)

I'm for lowering the Corporate tax rate. However, without closing the amount of loopholes and exemptions it will all be for naught. Those two reasons are why most corporations don't pay any federal income tax whatsoever.

 

[The Rabbi]

The GOP is not opposed to raising the debt ceiling. Everyone knows it will be raised.
The GOP wants substantive cuts in taxes and entitlements in exchange for it, however. And many investors would take a temporary default in exchange for a US that ran its finances better.
The GOP is opposed, totally, to tax increases. But they might support closed deductions in exchange for lower rates across the board.

The Dems want a piece of paper signed so they can continue pandering to their base and screw whoever has to pay the bill. It wont be them.

 

[Richard-H]

Gee, suddenly the Repugs are full of compromise ideas! I wonder why that is!



Here's the deal:

First, they're gonna raise the debt ceiling

Second, their gonna take whatever budget the President decides.

A month ago the Repugs could have dictated the the bidget, but now because of their IDIOTIC idea of refusing to raise the debt ceiling, they've painted themselves into a corner -and they know it.

In politics, there's a price for stupidity - and the idea of holding the debt ceiling hostage may be the STUPIDEST idea in the history of politics!

Get out your check books - me thinks that there's gonna be a bit of a tax increase in the near future!

 

[The Rabbi]

Gee, suddenly the Repugs are full of compromise ideas! I wonder why that is!



Here's the deal:

First, they're gonna raise the debt ceiling

Second, their gonna take whatever budget the President decides.

A month ago the Repugs could have dictated the the bidget, but now because of their IDIOTIC idea of refusing to raise the debt ceiling, they've painted themselves into a corner -and they know it.

In politics, there's a price for stupidity - and the idea of holding the debt ceiling hostage may be the STUPIDEST idea in the history of politics!

Get out your check books - me thinks that there's gonna be a bit of a tax increase in the near future!

Wow are you an idiot.
Obama proposed a budget. It was voted down. By Democrats.
You wont see a tax increase because they don't tax SSI.

 

[Richard-H]

Gee, suddenly the Repugs are full of compromise ideas! I wonder why that is!



Here's the deal:

First, they're gonna raise the debt ceiling

Second, their gonna take whatever budget the President decides.

A month ago the Repugs could have dictated the the bidget, but now because of their IDIOTIC idea of refusing to raise the debt ceiling, they've painted themselves into a corner -and they know it.

In politics, there's a price for stupidity - and the idea of holding the debt ceiling hostage may be the STUPIDEST idea in the history of politics!

Get out your check books - me thinks that there's gonna be a bit of a tax increase in the near future!

Wow are you an idiot.
Obama proposed a budget. It was voted down. By Democrats.
You wont see a tax increase because they don't tax SSI.

Just because you know that the repugs are gonna lose this one big time is no reason to get completely irrational...

Opps, forgot who I was posting to...irrational is the norm...nevermind....

 

[Richard-H]

This whole discussion is nonsense.

Congress is obliged to raise the debt ceiling - it has NOTHING to do with the current budget negotiations.

The Repugs tried to create some link between the two, but it's utter nonsense and they know it.

If we don't do this battle now we'll end up like Greece. Its not utter nonsense, it getting back to fiscal reality.

So negotiate the budget...it has NOTHING to do with the debt ceiling...

 

[Avatar4321]

This whole discussion is nonsense.

Congress is obliged to raise the debt ceiling - it has NOTHING to do with the current budget negotiations.

The Repugs tried to create some link between the two, but it's utter nonsense and they know it.

If we don't do this battle now we'll end up like Greece. Its not utter nonsense, it getting back to fiscal reality.

So negotiate the budget...it has NOTHING to do with the debt ceiling...

It has everything to do with the debt ceiling. If they can't borrow more money they can only spend what they can raise. Which means the budget has to be alot tighter.

 

[Richard-H]

If we don't do this battle now we'll end up like Greece. Its not utter nonsense, it getting back to fiscal reality.

So negotiate the budget...it has NOTHING to do with the debt ceiling...

It has everything to do with the debt ceiling. If they can't borrow more money they can only spend what they can raise. Which means the budget has to be alot tighter.

The debt ceiling is to pay for what the governement currently owes.

The budget negotiations are are over future government spending & taxation.

They are not directly related.

Congress is obliged to raise the debt ceiling to pay for current debts, the budget negotiations may determine whether or not the debt ceiling has to be raised some time in the future.

 

[whitehall]

Lets put it this way, politicians, mostly democrats but both parties are guilty of it, spend money like a junkie community agitator with a stolen ATM card. Every American instinctively knows that new taxes will be spent just like Social Security FICA funds have been spent for the last 8 decades. Politicians by their very nature spend taxpayer money. That's what they do. The point is that the democrat solution to the debt ceiling by instituting new taxes is a joke. They will spend it. The only logical way to get federal spending under control is to reduce what ....?

 

[Richard-H]

Lets put it this way, politicians, mostly democrats but both parties are guilty of it, spend money like a junkie community agitator with a stolen ATM card. Every American instinctively knows that new taxes will be spent just like Social Security FICA funds have been spent for the last 8 decades. Politicians by their very nature spend taxpayer money. That's what they do. The point is that the democrat solution to the debt ceiling by instituting new taxes is a joke. They will spend it. The only logical way to get federal spending under control is to reduce what ....?

The federal budget is publicly known and publicly scrutinized. It may be true that during boom times the government gets a bit liberal with th etax payers money, but you whooping assumption that there's HUGE amount of waste in government spending is nonsense.

The biggest governement waste is in the military industrial complex - where little or no scrutiny is allowed.

Besides that every cent the government spends is a fight (except of course for the money that goes to the special interests and political supporters), but the GOP never questions those expenditures.

 

[auditor0007]

The Democrats have put Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on the table. Along with defense cuts.

The GOP want selective spending cuts, least when they're not trying to weasel their way out of dealing with the crisis they helped create.

Actually, most Dems are against Obama's proposed cuts to SS and Medicare. I give him credit for putting these into play. I imagine he realizes that at some point, cuts will have to be made to these programs. Raising the age for benefits seems to be a logical way to go, rather than outright cutting benefits across the board. What I find ironic is that Republicans won't budge knowing how low revenues are.

The truth is that we cannot currently afford massive cuts in spending or massive hikes in taxes. However, doing a little of both would be a good start, and attacking the long term costs of Medicare should be at the top of the list. We have a problem now, but it will only get bigger down the road if we do not address Medicare, as it is our biggest long term problem.

I just really wish both sides would stop playing games and sit down and negotiate reasonably. Maybe the best thing to do is just vote all of them out and start over. Unfortunately, as can be witnessed right here, everyone is so entrenched in their own ideology, that they would never consider anything rational.

 

[oreo]

I was thinking about the positions of each party on the debt ceiling earlier today.

Republicans want 1) To avoid raising the debt ceiling & 2) To get significant spending cuts & 3) to avoid increasing taxes to burden the people

Democrats want 1) To raise taxes & 2) To raise the debt ceiling & 3) To avoid spending cuts.

The so called "deal" being proposed is that Republicans should capitulate now on raising taxes and raising the debt ceiling for a promise for "cuts" 12 years from now when no one currently in power will still control the government and be able to enforce any deal now.

Now let's just look at that compromise here without the partisan emotion attached. Just pretend two groups are negotiating and in order to reach a "compromise" one group has to completely capitulate on 2 of their requests to get a vague promise of doing something in the future on the 3rd one while the other group immediately gets 2 things they want while promising something they are sure they can avoid doing in the future.

Does anyone honestly say would be a fair compromise if this was a business deal or a private deal and that there were no emotional politics involved?

You want a fair deal? Democrats get the debt ceiling raise and Republicans get immediate spending cuts. Both parties give up something they want and get something they want. Since the Tax debate is a bit more complex, we can address that next:

Democrats want to increase taxes by 1) Increasing marginal rates and 2) eliminating deductions/exemptions.

Republicans want to 1) Decrease marginal rates and 2) not touch deductions/exemptions

A reasonable compromise here would be that we decrease the marginal rates and eliminate some of the deductions/exemptions that don't hurt average Americans much (such as the Housing costs).

Everyone gets something they really want. Everyone gives up something. I humbly suggest that if we want a reasonable compromise in this matter

Republicans get immediate spending cuts and tax cuts

Democrats get the debt ceiling raised and elimination of tax exemption/deduction

In this deal one side doesn't get everything they want while giving absolutely nothing. I think this compromise is reasonable and I could support such.

Democrats are already discussing eliminating or drastically reducing the mortgage interest rate deduction--which would WACK every American with higher tax liability who pays a home mortgage. This is the exact same tactic that Jimmy Carter used. What a democrat will give you with the right hand--they will ALWAYS take it back and much more with the left hand.

We don't need to raise taxes--we need more TAXPAYERS. And since Democrats depend on the 50% of this working class country that pays no federal tax what-so-ever--to get elected--they will not vote to raise taxes on these people. So they continually use the class warfare rhetoric. Basically punishing success while rewarding failure. This is continual rhetoric of wealth redistribution--which is aka Socialism. And we have all witnessed how well that is working in Europe. We are watching violent riots in Greece--France and Spain are on the verge of collapse--and if we don't grab the bull by the horns right now--we're headed down that path.

It's simply not fair that the top 10% wage earners in this country already pay 67% of the entire tax base of it. Everyone who works--shares the burden in this--and should contribute also.

 

[oreo]

The Democrats have put Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on the table. Along with defense cuts.

The GOP want selective spending cuts, least when they're not trying to weasel their way out of dealing with the crisis they helped create.

Actually, most Dems are against Obama's proposed cuts to SS and Medicare. I give him credit for putting these into play. I imagine he realizes that at some point, cuts will have to be made to these programs. Raising the age for benefits seems to be a logical way to go, rather than outright cutting benefits across the board. What I find ironic is that Republicans won't budge knowing how low revenues are.

The truth is that we cannot currently afford massive cuts in spending or massive hikes in taxes. However, doing a little of both would be a good start, and attacking the long term costs of Medicare should be at the top of the list. We have a problem now, but it will only get bigger down the road if we do not address Medicare, as it is our biggest long term problem.

I just really wish both sides would stop playing games and sit down and negotiate reasonably. Maybe the best thing to do is just vote all of them out and start over. Unfortunately, as can be witnessed right here, everyone is so entrenched in their own ideology, that they would never consider anything rational.

There is 64 TRILLION in unfunded liabilites for social security/medicare--resulting in $534,000.00 per household in America owed to the Federal Government. There are CURRENTLY 18,000 babyboomers entering social security/medicare DAILY and this will continue for the next 15 years.

This is a very serious PROBLEM right now--and it needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW.

 

[gautama]

The Democrats have put Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on the table. Along with defense cuts.

The GOP want selective spending cuts, least when they're not trying to weasel their way out of dealing with the crisis they helped create.

Shitbert is the typical certified Obamarrhoidal Bullshit Artiste peddling the phoney Obamarrhoidal "supposed" compromise which amounts to: "We dems do not compromise on ANYTHING until , maybe, these things we will compromise 12 years from now !!!

THAT IS THE DEM'S BOTTOM LINE !!!

Social Security ???? The Social Security issue is not a point of any significant disagreement , if any. But the changed Medicaid, and Medicare "innovations" is synonymous with OBUMMERCARE !!!. And, the fucking Obummer makes it crystal clear that OBUMMER IS NOT PLACING AN IOTA OF COMPROMISE ON HIS OBUMMERCARE !!!

ALSO, in spite of Obummer's rhetoric on "the need to compromise" ? The bottom line is that: ALL THE COMPROMISE MUST COME FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE except for the Dem "compromise", if any, will come, maybe, TWELVE YEARS FROM NOW !!!

 

[skookerasbil]

Wouldnt have said this back at election time.........but.......the GOP has to play ball and walk away with a small deal with emphasis placed on the impossible position they are in given they own but 1/3 of this process. The light is at the end of the tunnel for this BS with k00ky government spending given the shape of the economy. GOP has to just run out the clock and let the president whither on the vine while the economy falls further into the shitter as we approach next November. NOBODY see's it getting better except the lefty internet nuts.

Fact is........you cant do shit with this far left asshole in the White House. At the end of the day, THATS the political reality. The leadership needs to get on the offensive that this process is impossible due to the other side not at all being serious about cuts. The people need to see that the Senate needs to go red and the president needs to just go............THEN, comes real hope and change.

And this is exactly whats going to happen in the end.........the talking heads on the boob keep saying "I dont know whats going to happen!!" Yes they do.........they just want you tuning in for the next three weeks.