West urges end to South Ossetia fighting

[Larkinn]

I don't want you anywhere near my ass queer. (personal fetish?)

Nice homophobic streak there. Not surprising really.

SOUTH OSSIETA--WHICH IS PART OF GEORGIA

You do know what de facto independent means, right? And it has been that way for some time now.

Forgive me, I misread. I've got my ass cheeks spread if you're ready to whipe..

You, misread? Surely not. After trumpeting your superior intellectual capacity, surely you of all brilliant individuals wouldn't misread. I'm sure if you try hard enough you can come up with some sort of bullshit spin. Your getting pretty good at it by now.

You have a right to get your citizens out of the warzone. Not to completely invade another country and start bombing residential areas.

When almost all the individuals of a warzone ARE your people, yes you do.

Well the invade part at least. I never said the Russians could bomb residential areas. But no surprise you want to attribute that to me. makes your position more tenable when you lie about mine, eh?

 

[Ravi]

It doesn't matter what is and isn't a good thing. It matters what is right Rav. Russia has no right invading Georgia. Georgia is only guilty of controlling itself. They had a violent seperatist province they were trying to control. You would view this differently if one U.S. state were separating and had separatist soldiers. I don't understand why many posters here don't believe it was legal and right for the South to secede from the Union (and backed the Union supressing the rebellion, but then turn around and condemn Georgia from doing the same thing--repressing a rebellion.

Russia has constantly had it's hands in Georgian affairs. In September of last year...Georgian special forces raid a seperatist military training camp in in the break away province. Two russian military instructors were killed. They were there training seperatists.

I'm telling you, this is typical of Russia. They did the same thing in Afghanistan and Czechoslovakia. Claiming Russian citizens were in danger and protecting the minority.

But at the same time, didn't Georgia try to retake S.O. by force? They basically stuck a needle in Russia's eye and waited for their overreaction. Georgia seems to have lost S.O. with that move.

 

[Larkinn]

Oh I don't know...maybe it's int he form of bombing civilians and invading another country.

What?

Let me make it clear for you once again. South Ossieta is a PROVINCE of Georgia. It declared it's independence and were basically fighting against Georgia for it. It's no different than the south claiming independence and the North fighting them to keep them in the nation is it not???? The South controlled itself when it seceded...but you still seem to think it was ok for the Union to invade to restore it's union. But you change your tune when it's about Georgia trying to restore it's regions. Typical of you though.

So I'm just a bit curious about the years in which the South had de facto independent from the Union. To make it comparable, it should be around 15. I guess I missed that part of my history lesson, but I'm sure you can bolster my meagre knowledge.

Tell me again why it is not ok for a country to fight to keep it's lands....I'm curious. I don't agree with ethinic fighting...but this is about territory. Georgia had a breakaway province they were trying to keep...

Because although South Ossetia was technically a part of Georgia, in reality it was not.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Those people are not really Russian citizens, that was and is a ploy by Russia to justify the attack. It would be the same if we just started give Albertans US citizenship and then invaded Canada cause Canada enforced their right to rule Alberta. Claiming we were just protecting US Citizens.

 

[BrianH]

What?



So I'm just a bit curious about the years in which the South had de facto independent from the Union. To make it comparable, it should be around 15. I guess I missed that part of my history lesson, but I'm sure you can bolster my meagre knowledge.



Because although South Ossetia was technically a part of Georgia, in reality it was not.

You're last sentence sums it up for me. Thanks.

If you want to go that route...Technically...the South legally seceded.
Proof: No prohibition of secession in the constitution, no delegation of secession to the fed gov...

I'm all for a region having it's independence, but I am not for a country invading another country claiming "peace-keeping". You know damn well Russia would like to have this region back as it's own...just like Afghanistan and Czechoslovakia. This has happened numerous times before.

I'm not justifying anything bad that either country has done, but I do not believe it right for Russia to intervene.

 

[BrianH]

Those people are not really Russian citizens, that was and is a ploy by Russia to justify the attack. It would be the same if we just started give Albertans US citizenship and then invaded Canada cause Canada enforced their right to rule Alberta. Claiming we were just protecting US Citizens.

Exactly...it would be one thing if it were actually true...but Russia has done this exact same thing NUMEROUS times...and each time we've opposed their actions. Why is it, all of a sudden, ok for Russia to do this when they've done it numerous times before...with the same justifications.

 

[Orange_Juice]

Anyone disagree with any of these points?



Roots of the conflict

Why is the Caucasus so important?

Because it is the only route for Central Asian oil supplies that does not cross Russia. Throughout the 19th century Russia fought wars to control the region and Moscow considers the area a key part of its sphere of influence.

Why does South Ossetia want to break away?

Most of its people speak their own language and feel closer to the Russians than the Georgians. They say they were absorbed into Georgia after the fall of the old Soviet Union. The 70,000 South Ossetians want independence – just like Kosovo, the breakaway Serbian province.

Why are the Georgians so upset about South Ossetia?

Because they see it as a Russian outpost funded largely from Moscow, and where most people carry Russian passports.

Why has Georgia’s president chosen to raise the issue now?

Because he thought everyone was focused on the Olympics and the Russians would hesitate to respond with force.

Why has Russia been willing to go to war?

The Kremlin is angry about western, particularly American military support for Georgia, its desire to join Nato and US plans for a missile defence shield in Europe.

Will anyone else intervene?

Unlikely, western armies are busy and the prospect of taking on Russia is not enticing.

What happens next?

The Georgians will back down looking like the bad guys. Both sides will go back to hating each other. Result: Russia 1, Georgia 0.

 

[Larkinn]

Those people are not really Russian citizens, that was and is a ploy by Russia to justify the attack. It would be the same if we just started give Albertans US citizenship and then invaded Canada cause Canada enforced their right to rule Alberta. Claiming we were just protecting US Citizens.

Ah. Well, it sure is good to know that you decide what a "real" Russian citizen is and which ones are fake.

 

[Larkinn]

You're last sentence sums it up for me. Thanks.

Sums up why your wrong? Yes, it does nicely.

If you want to go that route...Technically...the South legally seceded.
Proof: No prohibition of secession in the constitution, no delegation of secession to the fed gov...

You "mis-read" again? Realities are more important than technicalities. Georgia had no control over South Ossetia. It did not provide them with any services (although Russia did). It did not protect them, collect taxes from them, nor have any governing power over them.

I'm all for a region having it's independence, but I am not for a country invading another country claiming "peace-keeping". You know damn well Russia would like to have this region back as it's own...just like Afghanistan and Czechoslovakia. This has happened numerous times before.

I'm not justifying anything bad that either country has done, but I do not believe it right for Russia to intervene.

Russia can intervene, but nowhere near as harshly as it has done.

 

[dilloduck]

Sums up why your wrong? Yes, it does nicely.



You "mis-read" again? Realities are more important than technicalities. Georgia had no control over South Ossetia. It did not provide them with any services (although Russia did). It did not protect them, collect taxes from them, nor have any governing power over them.



Russia can intervene, but nowhere near as harshly as it has done.

Under what aegis 'can' Russia intervene. Hell, the reality is that anyone can intervene anytime and anywhere they wish. (cue the cowardly lion) Are you suggesting they have the legal right ?

 

[Ravi]

So, a little research shows quite a few of S.O. residents are Russian citizens. S.O. has been its own (unrecognized by most) nation for a few years and Georgia alleged they'd been attacking Georgia, so Georgia tried to force them into becoming part of Georgia again. The Russians objected and retaliated.

Both sides have some merit, though why after an aggressive move by Georgia the S.O. would want to have anything to do with them...

 

[Epsilon Delta]

It's a complicated issue because 30% of the population is Georgian, and 70% is South Ossetian. S. Ossetia has been defacto independent, but nobody recognizes it as independent, not ever Russia, because Russia wants it for itself. It even denounced the independence referendum from 2 years ago. Georgia claims that the Ossetians have been attacking Georgian villages in S.O., and so they invaded. Then Russia claims that Georgia is attacking Russians, and it invades. What a viscious circle.

 

[Charles_Main]

The conflict is about Oil and Natural Gas, Sound failure?

 

[KGB]

The conflict is about Oil and Natural Gas, Sound failure?

this conflict has been going on for hundreds of years.....mainly it has to do with resources, but it also has to do with Russia flexing its muscles in its perceived sphere of influence....

either way, we need to stay the hell out of it.....

 

[doeton]

what part of have their own language are you guys missing?

this isn't just oil.

it's independence and freedom (lol).

 

[doeton]

fact is

georgia attacked south ossetia.

big mistake.

 

[AllieBaba]

I thought they attacked them because they were trying to "secede" as it were.

In which case, it is their perogative, if Ossetia is part of Georgia. And in which case, Russia fighting for Ossetia is an act of aggression against Georgia, and an attempt to reclaim that which they had given to Georgia.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ah. Well, it sure is good to know that you decide what a "real" Russian citizen is and which ones are fake.

So again if we want Alberta all we need do is make all Albertans US Citizens and then DEMAND that Canada cease all legal Government action in Alberta. When Alberta leaves the Canadian Union and Canada attempts to assert its authority there we invade Canada and subjegate the entire country.

That in essence is what the Russians are doing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You all are aware that the Georians withdrew from SO and offered a ceasefire and that Russia has now invaded Georgia proper ceasing so far several towns and a military base?

The entire premise that the Russians were protecting their citizens is GONE and yet you liberal turds keep defending them. Remind me again how the US was wrong in Iraq but Russia is right in Georgia. Explain that concept? Oh wait never mind I know EXACTLY why you hold it. If Bush were not President you would all be screaming bloody murder about Russia, but it is inconvenient to appear to support the current President and more politically expedient to throw Georgia under the bus.

 

[KGB]

You all are aware that the Georians withdrew from SO and offered a ceasefire and that Russia has now invaded Georgia proper ceasing so far several towns and a military base?

The entire premise that the Russians were protecting their citizens is GONE and yet you liberal turds keep defending them. Remind me again how the US was wrong in Iraq but Russia is right in Georgia. Explain that concept? Oh wait never mind I know EXACTLY why you hold it. If Bush were not President you would all be screaming bloody murder about Russia, but it is inconvenient to appear to support the current President and more politically expedient to throw Georgia under the bus.

not a liberal by any means, but the fact is, we should not involve ourselves in this tiff....

Washington warned us about getting involved in foreign alliances....