We Can't Grow Our Way Out of Debt

[danielpalos]

socialism has built entire cities.

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

socialism has built entire cities.

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

Dude, you're baked.

 

[danielpalos]

socialism has built entire cities.

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

Dude, you're baked.

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

Dude, you're baked.

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

 

[danielpalos]

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

Dude, you're baked.

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

the religious prove it works every day.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

Dude, you're baked.

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

the religious prove it works every day.

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

 

[danielpalos]

yes, a lack of command economy as a practice of the Art of the Husbandman.

Dude, you're baked.

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

the religious prove it works every day.

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Dude, you're baked.

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

the religious prove it works every day.

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

 

[danielpalos]

dude, i am practicing being a dope and know it; by having the fewest fallacies for my Cause.

why should any command economy not command economize by practicing the Art of the Husbandman on Earth, simply to provide that moral example to wo-men.

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

the religious prove it works every day.

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

or, just incompetent.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Communism doesn't work.
You're too stupid to realize it.
And you make no sense. Idjit.

the religious prove it works every day.

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

or, just incompetent.

I have no problem believing you're an incompetent idiot.

 

[danielpalos]

the religious prove it works every day.

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

or, just incompetent.

I have no problem believing you're an incompetent idiot.

I don't mind resorting to the fewest fallacies, not Only for fun, but also for practice.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Dude, can you sober up before you post?
You're making less sense than usual.

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

or, just incompetent.

I have no problem believing you're an incompetent idiot.

I don't mind resorting to the fewest fallacies, not Only for fun, but also for practice.

When you decide to resort to English, let me know.

 

[danielpalos]

still no clue and still no Cause; i got it.

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

or, just incompetent.

I have no problem believing you're an incompetent idiot.

I don't mind resorting to the fewest fallacies, not Only for fun, but also for practice.

When you decide to resort to English, let me know.

whenever you get a clue and Cause; grasshopper.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I have no clue what you're babbling about.
'Cause you're an idiot.

or, just incompetent.

I have no problem believing you're an incompetent idiot.

I don't mind resorting to the fewest fallacies, not Only for fun, but also for practice.

When you decide to resort to English, let me know.

whenever you get a clue and Cause; grasshopper.

Don't bogart that joint, dude.

 

[Pksimon2007]

Eis

In this 9/2012 article, Charles Eisenstein questions why progressives and conservatives alike automatically assume the purpose of economic policy is to stimulate growth.
"So ubiquitous is the equation of growth with prosperity that few people ever pause to consider it. What does economic growth actually mean? It means more consumption – and consumption of a specific kind: more consumption of goods and services that are exchanged for money. That means that if people stop caring for their own children and instead pay for childcare, the economy grows. The same if people stop cooking for themselves and purchase restaurant takeaways instead. So ubiquitous is the equation of growth with prosperity that few people ever pause to consider it..."

"The reason is that our present money system can only function in a growing economy. Money is created as interest-bearing debt: it only comes into being when someone promises to pay back even more of it. Therefore, there is always more debt than there is money. In a growth economy that is not a problem, because new money (and new debt) is constantly lent into existence so that existing debt can be repaid. But when growth slows, good lending opportunities become scarce. Indebtedness rises faster than income, debt service becomes more difficult, bankruptcies and layoffs rise."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/03/debt-federal-reserve-fixation-on-growth
Eisenstein's solutions include exchanging luxury for leisure and convincing the Fed to incorporate debt forgiveness with quantitative easing.

- Eisenstein is really wrong on one level and right on another.

Where he is wrong is in his analysis of money. Endogenous money created through bank lending is created as interest-bearing debt. Exogenous money is not actually created by the central bank, but by federal deficit spending. Treasuries are issued as a mechanism to sop up the excess reserves created by that spending, as a mechanism to maintain Fed control over interest rates. They also serve the purpose of inducing foreign firms to accept the dollar in foreign trade, by providing an interest-beating substitute for dollars.

The issue of Treasuries is unnecessary. It is a policy choice, but I don't think it requires unsustainable growth. In fact to a large extent federal deficit spending is a substitute for private credit/endogenous money creation, so Eisenstein sort of misses the boat when he identifies a shared assumption underneath liberal and conservative approaches (more federal spending or less).

The common policy presumption is the loanable funds model, which is a model that no longer describes our monetary system (if it ever really did). That doesn't mean that the policy prescriptions that arise are necessarily wrong. The management of government deficits through a sectoral balances approach (as proposed by Wynne Godley in the late 70s or by Abba Lerner as "Functional Finance"
In 1943) would require some combination of reduced taxes or increased spending, but could be tailored as a method to reduce private debt rather than to spur exponential growth.

He's right when he says that exponential real growth is unsustainable, but that is a much larger question which demands we examine the roles of employment and income distribution at a social and political level. Our monetary system is already well able to accommodate whatever social/political strategy emerges.

 

[Londoner]

You can't have exponential growth forever. Eventually you run out of resources, and destroy the planet's ability to sustain life.

Capital moves like a cloud of locusts from space to space until the music stops and a decline is triggered.

 

[Pksimon2007]

You can't have exponential growth forever. Eventually you run out of resources, and destroy the planet's ability to sustain life.

Capital moves like a cloud of locusts from space to space until the music stops and a decline is triggered.

- No, you can't have exponential real growth forever.

Eisenstein is just wrong that our monetary system requires that.

Sustainability is our next big challenge. That may require some unloveable institutional and social changes.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You can't have exponential growth forever. Eventually you run out of resources, and destroy the planet's ability to sustain life.

100% stupid and liberal of course given that planet has far more resources now than ever and sustains far more life at a higher level than ever in human history. The entire population of the world could still fit into a small part of Texas at the density of NYC.

 

[georgephillip]

The entire population of the world could still fit into a small part of Texas at the density of NYC.

How small of a part would that be?
If-us-land-mass-were-distributed-like-us-wealth Institute for Local Self-Reliance

 

[georgephillip]

Where he is wrong is in his analysis of money. Endogenous money created through bank lending is created as interest-bearing debt. Exogenous money is not actually created by the central bank, but by federal deficit spending. Treasuries are issued as a mechanism to sop up the excess reserves created by that spending, as a mechanism to maintain Fed control over interest rates. They also serve the purpose of inducing foreign firms to accept the dollar in foreign trade, by providing an interest-beating substitute for dollars.

What about a 21st century version of Lincoln's greenbacks?
Greenback money - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia