Was Hiroshima Wrong?

[westwall]

and you support him

No I don't. I think you misread my post.

Your arguments bespeak otherwise. If I am wrong then please forgive me.

 

[JBeukema]

And Bin Ladens attack killed non Americans and Muslims. What crime did they commit that made their murders OK?

I imagine OBL would respond with some combination (A) collateral damage and (B) they sympathized with the Western aggressors
Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan

As far as Tojo, his support continues to this day! A recent movie "Pride, the Fateful Moment" portrays him as a hero.

And? We put Jackson on money.

 

[JBeukema]

and you support him

No I don't. I think you misread my post.

Your arguments bespeak otherwise. If I am wrong then please forgive me.

Criticizing America's killing of large numbers of civilian non-combatants means you support bin Laden?

 

[Kalam]

and you support him

No I don't. I think you misread my post.

Your arguments bespeak otherwise. If I am wrong then please forgive me.

You implied that the civilians of Japan brought the attacks on themselves (at least partially) by supporting their government. I simply pointed out that Bin Laden said something similar about Americans.

 

[JBeukema]

No I don't. I think you misread my post.

Your arguments bespeak otherwise. If I am wrong then please forgive me.

You implied that the civilians of Japan brought the attacks on themselves (at least partially) by supporting their government. I simply pointed out that Bin Laden said something similar about Americans.

He didn't imply anything. He said it outright.

 

[whitehall]

Thanks to the 65 years of propaganda that replaced history, the question has become more philosophical than strategic and philisophical questions are always harder to answer than strategic questions. Propaganda has told us that two nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan to avoid the inevitable casualties that would result from an invasion of Japan but history tells us that Japan was trying to negotiate for peace terms through Stalin because the US refused to negotiate. History also tells us that Japan had virtually no navy left and little defense against daylight bombing missons. The Bushido holdouts knew they were beaten but Truman was bound by a dead president's orders not to accept anything but unconditional surrender. The biggest obstacle was the preservation of the Japanese Emperor and that concession was granted after the Bombs were dropped anyway. Life was cheap in 1945. We already incinerated Dresden Germany for no strategic reason and using that train of thought the Bomb was a legitimate weapon. The fact that Truman refused to negotiate is an important issue that was downplayed by the media.

 

[Toronado3800]

Thanks to the 65 years of propaganda that replaced history, the question has become more philosophical than strategic and philisophical questions are always harder to answer than strategic questions. Propaganda has told us that two nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan to avoid the inevitable casualties that would result from an invasion of Japan but history tells us that Japan was trying to negotiate for peace terms through Stalin because the US refused to negotiate. History also tells us that Japan had virtually no navy left and little defense against daylight bombing missons. The Bushido holdouts knew they were beaten but Truman was bound by a dead president's orders not to accept anything but unconditional surrender. The biggest obstacle was the preservation of the Japanese Emperor and that concession was granted after the Bombs were dropped anyway. Life was cheap in 1945. We already incinerated Dresden Germany for no strategic reason and using that train of thought the Bomb was a legitimate weapon. The fact that Truman refused to negotiate is an important issue that was downplayed by the media.

This needs to be taught to all adults and children around the world. I can not rep you enough. Silly Japanese had no understanding of our "alliance of convenience" with Stalin.

For those of you who doubt this, ever here of the preparation for the Enola Gay's flight? There was no air battle over Hiroshima to make sure the Japanese did not shoot down our golden little boy. The Japanese had no air force or navy left.

 

[Iowa10000]

There was one attack that was ordered by america that I just don't quite see how it's justified.
That was the bombing of a business that had many people at it eating dinner along with several workers and I think many people who held jobs in other businesses at this place were blown to hell because we thought the president of Iraq was there eating his dinner, but as we all know now he wasn't. Is it Ok to murder/kill as many people as you need if they just happen to be in the way in your attemp to go after a criminal?

 

[Toronado3800]

If I feel you have worth 1,000 bad points I am willing to exert a few bad points to kill you and make the world a better place....

Confusing.....

If I knew Hitler was in the Empire State Building in 1935 and I could kill him by blowing up the building and stop that whole Nazi thing would it be worth it? Probably, would have saved lives on D-Day at the least.

 

[Iowa10000]

and if you knew this and it wasn't true and you killed all these people on your hunch, would you be a criminal or would/should you be excused?

 

[JBeukema]

If I feel you have worth 1,000 bad points I am willing to exert a few bad points to kill you and make the world a better place....

Confusing.....

If I knew Hitler was in the Empire State Building in 1935 and I could kill him by blowing up the building and stop that whole Nazi thing would it be worth it? Probably, would have saved lives on D-Day at the least.

If Hitler had died, would the NAZIs have stopped, or would we have seen a second Night of Long Knives and seen who emerged as the new Feuhrer?

 

[Iowa10000]

If a serial killer who has killed 1000's took refuge in your home and your wife and kids along with you were home and the cops were sure he entered your home would it be Ok for them to just blow up the home in order to make sure they got HIM.

 

[Toronado3800]

At some point I would expect them to do it. No need for them just to be lazy and level the block, but at some point they are going to kill him.

More or less like when that cop fires his gun on a criminal with a knife. There is a chance the officer will hit a civilian and they will TRY to avoid that. A fella standing there with a Tommy gun they won't take such careful aim and will use a few more rounds on, and so on.

Especially I expect them to come running in if my Grandmother did not turn little mass murderer Al, Crip Leroy, or Cartel boy Juan in for their criminal activities in his youth.

 

[JBeukema]

Did you just compare a stray bullet to flying a plane into WTC or nuking an entire city?

 

[Toronado3800]

JBeukema, you do have a point. At some point ya gotta play your educated hunches and try for the best, side with Stalin against Hitler, that type of thing.

 

[Toronado3800]

We may be replying too fast for this to make sense.

For the greater good "madmen" have ordered battleships like the in my avatar to bombard populated locals. Were they wrong? Were they murders?

It is fair to say blood is on their hands.

 

[maatsmom843]

And Nagasaki? How many non-combatants were knowingly slaughtered in order to terrorize the government of Japan into granting our demands?

Saving the life of a single American GI would have been worth killing every living thing in Japan so far as I'm concerned. Those two attacks saved the lives of probably 1,000,000 American servicemen. So they were definitely the RIGHT thing to do.

spoken like one who only understands the story from their own vantage point.

 

[Big Black Dog]

And Nagasaki? How many non-combatants were knowingly slaughtered in order to terrorize the government of Japan into granting our demands?

Saving the life of a single American GI would have been worth killing every living thing in Japan so far as I'm concerned. Those two attacks saved the lives of probably 1,000,000 American servicemen. So they were definitely the RIGHT thing to do.

spoken like one who only understands the story from their own vantage point.

Thank you for your neg rep, maatsmom843. It means so much to me knowing that my opinion differs from yours. I shall return the favor when I am able to give out rep again. After all, if I get neg rep cause you disagree with me, I should give you some neg rep cause I disagree with your point of view. Your -6 point rep pains me. When I neg rep you, you'll get a -491. If you happen to see my ex-wife running around there in Charleston, SC, tell her to fuck herself too along with yourself.

 

[GWV5903]

Brain Fart, long day....

If I remember we where requested to be there by the Saudis, where we not? I have a difficult time with OBL being recognized as a soldier or commander of an armed force. Terrorist attacks are performed by cowards imo....

Also, I believe there was a previous ultimatum given to the Japanese....

I am only giving the reasons bin laden gave. yes our presence was requested by the saudi royals.

I think people are missing the deeper point behind your statement, which, at least as I see it, is that you could make an argument for just about any sort of action. The ethical issues rest on something more fundamental than ultimatums.

Yes they do, and the actions of the Japanese had ethical & moral issues as well....

War is a nasty business, but it is inevitable, we will never solve this issue either....

That being said, would you not defend your position if you believe you are correct???

 

[GWV5903]

And Nagasaki? How many non-combatants were knowingly slaughtered in order to terrorize the government of Japan into granting our demands?

They where given a choice, the Potsdam Ultimatum, choices have consequences....

What was the choice for lower Manhattan?

America was never told before that they their meddling was unwelcome?

Told by who? OBL?? King Fahd requested our presence, OBL, Hussein, Ahmadinejad, etc... are irrelevant in this situation....

You can't have it both ways, the excuse that we are responsible for acts such as 9/11 is egregious, you leave yourself with only one option under that ideology, stay out of all global conflict, is that what you are proposing?