The Gadfly
Senior Member
- Feb 7, 2011
- 2,190
- 614
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Jose, whether the Republic of Vietnam was a "legitimate" state in your eyes, it was so far as most of the world was concerned. The South Vietnamese government (a succession of them) may have been corrupt, but the RVN was widely recognized as a legitimate, sovereign nation.Whatever support Uncle Ho did or did not have in the South, is beside the point; he had his own country (the DRVN,), he used it, and its army, to invade a neighboring sovereign state (the RVN), and obviously there were a lot of people there who DID care very much whether he was a communist or not, because they resisted this invasion. If so many of the people of South Vietnam were pro-Uncle Ho, please explain to me why the VC had to intimidate them with torture and murder. Please explain also just how it was that the vast majority of NLF troops and cadre, were in fact members of the North Vietnamese Army, infiltrated into the South over a period of YEARS. Home grown freedom fighters, my arse; they were invading foreign troops. We know that, because many of them we captured in fact TOLD us, voluntarily, that they were in fact, members of the NVA, and were originally from the DRVN, NOT the RVN! Uncle Ho and Giap may have tried to peddle the fiction that the NLF (the "Viet Cong") were primarily South Vietnamese; as the foregoing shows, that was a bald-faced lie, and believed only by those credulous enough (and sympathetic to the communist cause enough) to believe it, in spite of a MOUNTAIN of evidence to the contrary!
Further, you might try explaining why Ho was seeking and receiving Soviet and Chinese support as early as 1959-60. Just how many U.S. troops were fighting in South Vietnam then? Ho Chi Minh WAS a Soviet puppet, and I remind you that Vietnam today remains a COMMUNIST state.
While, you are at it, what kind of "people's army" has to chain its truck drivers to the steering wheel of their trucks? (That's what the NVA did to their own truck drivers on the Ho Chi Trail, or didn't you know that?). Know why they did that, Jose? Because their morale was shot, and we were kicking NVA ass, that is why. We beat them on the battlefield; the lying reporters and dupes like you notwithstanding. One more "victory" like Tet, and the VC and the NVA would have ceased to be militarily effective (that is generally what happens, when your major operations have a 65% plus casualty rate!).
If the communist regime was so popular, you might try explaining why they threw so many Vietnamese into re-education camps, where they were tortured and butchered. Those are the Vietnamese I feel bad for; they trusted us, they believed in America, they believed America's promises...and we were forced to abandon them to the enemy. I am not ashamed of America, but I am ashamed of that callous, cowardly act of national betrayal of our friends and allies that America perpetrated on our behalf. As a man, as a soldier who did his best to defend those people, and as an American, that makes me sick.
The best analogy I can give you for the situation, is this.: let's say you are a ninety-eight pound weakling, and the neighborhood bully next door, who happens to be a little bigger and meaner than you, decides he is going to take your house, rape your wife and kill your kids, unless you become his slave. I'm the big guy on the block, and you yell for help. Now, Jose, what do you think I should do? The bully hasn't touched me (he's afraid to) but he is beating the crap out of you. He also has a couple of large friends egging him on. Should I intervene? Or should I wait until he kills you, and then file a police report? That's what the people of South Vietnam were up against. I have just a slight suspicion, that you would NOT want me so restrained, if it were YOUR door the wolf was growling at.
You know what the real irony is here? The Vietnam vets you hate so much are the very kind of people who would put themselves on the line to help you, when some goon backed you against the wall. We would be the ones standing up for you, if someone tried to haul you off to some gulag, for imaginary crimes. We're the ones who answered the call, when a lot of men said, "Not my problem." That is who and what we really are. And so Jose, I do not particularly care, whether you consider me a willing dupe, an idealistic fool, a mindless jingo, or even a hardened killer. I don't care, because I know who I am, and what I tried to do, I'm OK with that, and I'd do it again. I'm not much for polls, but the ones I've seen say the majority of Vietnam vets agree with me. WE ARE NOT ASHAMED, AND WE HAVE NO REASON TO BE. I don't care, whether you and your friends like that, or not.
Further, you might try explaining why Ho was seeking and receiving Soviet and Chinese support as early as 1959-60. Just how many U.S. troops were fighting in South Vietnam then? Ho Chi Minh WAS a Soviet puppet, and I remind you that Vietnam today remains a COMMUNIST state.
While, you are at it, what kind of "people's army" has to chain its truck drivers to the steering wheel of their trucks? (That's what the NVA did to their own truck drivers on the Ho Chi Trail, or didn't you know that?). Know why they did that, Jose? Because their morale was shot, and we were kicking NVA ass, that is why. We beat them on the battlefield; the lying reporters and dupes like you notwithstanding. One more "victory" like Tet, and the VC and the NVA would have ceased to be militarily effective (that is generally what happens, when your major operations have a 65% plus casualty rate!).
If the communist regime was so popular, you might try explaining why they threw so many Vietnamese into re-education camps, where they were tortured and butchered. Those are the Vietnamese I feel bad for; they trusted us, they believed in America, they believed America's promises...and we were forced to abandon them to the enemy. I am not ashamed of America, but I am ashamed of that callous, cowardly act of national betrayal of our friends and allies that America perpetrated on our behalf. As a man, as a soldier who did his best to defend those people, and as an American, that makes me sick.
The best analogy I can give you for the situation, is this.: let's say you are a ninety-eight pound weakling, and the neighborhood bully next door, who happens to be a little bigger and meaner than you, decides he is going to take your house, rape your wife and kill your kids, unless you become his slave. I'm the big guy on the block, and you yell for help. Now, Jose, what do you think I should do? The bully hasn't touched me (he's afraid to) but he is beating the crap out of you. He also has a couple of large friends egging him on. Should I intervene? Or should I wait until he kills you, and then file a police report? That's what the people of South Vietnam were up against. I have just a slight suspicion, that you would NOT want me so restrained, if it were YOUR door the wolf was growling at.
You know what the real irony is here? The Vietnam vets you hate so much are the very kind of people who would put themselves on the line to help you, when some goon backed you against the wall. We would be the ones standing up for you, if someone tried to haul you off to some gulag, for imaginary crimes. We're the ones who answered the call, when a lot of men said, "Not my problem." That is who and what we really are. And so Jose, I do not particularly care, whether you consider me a willing dupe, an idealistic fool, a mindless jingo, or even a hardened killer. I don't care, because I know who I am, and what I tried to do, I'm OK with that, and I'd do it again. I'm not much for polls, but the ones I've seen say the majority of Vietnam vets agree with me. WE ARE NOT ASHAMED, AND WE HAVE NO REASON TO BE. I don't care, whether you and your friends like that, or not.
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