US Losing the War in Ukrainian

Should the US intervene by shipping large amounts of weapons and supplies to Ukrainian government?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • No

    Votes: 5 83.3%

  • Total voters
    6
Feb 15, 2015
27
3
1
The mainstream media in the U.S. is being very quiet about this, but the truth is that the U.S.-backed government in Kiev is starting to lose the civil war. This week, the separatists captured the very important railway junction of Debaltseve despite the fact that a ceasefire is supposed to be in place. Buoyed by a constant influx of Russian weapons and supplies, the separatists have gained a clear upper hand in the conflict. But this was not supposed to happen.

When protest groups that were funded, organized and advised by organizations in the United States violently overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government, the Obama administration was hoping that the Ukrainian people would rapidly embrace their new pro-western leaders. Instead, the nation was plunged into a very bitter civil war that could go on for many years.

Civil-War-In-Ukraine-2014.png


And as the battlefield stands right now, the government in Kiev will probably be forced to concede even more territory in the months ahead as more weapons and fighters arrive from Russia. The Obama administration could decide to intervene by shipping large amounts of weapons and supplies to the Ukrainian government, but that could turn the civil war in Ukraine into a proxy war between the United States and Russia. And the thing about proxy wars is that sometimes they turn into real wars.

Earlier this month, the world rejoiced when a ceasefire between the government in Kiev and the separatists was announced.

But it didn’t last long.

The scene of devastation is staggering in Debaltseve, the town at the heart of the battle between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian separatists in recent days.

Barely a house is unscathed by shelling. Elderly civilians trapped by the fighting still cower in basements. After most Ukrainian forces pulled out Wednesday, the separatists are now in control.

It’s obvious there’s been a seismic shift on the battlefield. But it’s not yet clear what the Ukrainian withdrawal means for the shaky peace deal that came into force Sunday.



Will the separatists halt their offensive, satisfied with the territory they hold? Or will they be emboldened to push for more?

And of course this is all part of a much larger trend. The separatists have been winning new territory for months. If this trend continues, Russia could possibly advance over old soviet borders, into what could be seen as Europe.

The U.S.-Backed Government In Ukraine Is Starting To Lose The Civil War Alex Jones Infowars There s a war on for your mind
 
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Ukraine must pay for Russian gas sent to rebel areas: Medvedev...

... Medvedev said Ukraine's current payments would only cover three of four more days of supplies at current volumes, taking into account the new shipments to rebel bastions Donetsk and Lugansk.

Russia only supplies gas to Ukraine when it is paid for in advance.

Medvedev said in a statement on his website that referenced his talks with President Vladimir Putin that "we will have to, as usual, make a difficult decision" if Kiev did not pay.

Quote:
The prime minister said however that Russia "will continue to deliver gas," adding that supplies to separatist areas in eastern Ukraine were being done for humanitarian reasons.

Ukraine must pay for Russian gas sent to rebel areas Medvedev - Yahoo News

Under the Minsk Agreemeent 2 (MA2), Ukraine was to remain intact with the Novarossiyan areas receiving increased autonomy. Under this arrangement, Kiev would still collect tax revenues from the area and would ALSO be liable for the provision of gas.

Kiev is not paying for the Russian gas they are using and have cut off supplies of that free gas to Novarossiya. Russia is now DIRECTLY supplying those areas for free but is demanding that Kiev pay for the fuel they need.

Quote:
In a more open gesture of pressure, Moscow issued a stern warning Friday to cash-strapped Ukraine that it needed to remit payment soon if it wants to continue receiving Russian gas, raising the threat of a cut-off during the harsh winter.

Following a bruising price and debt dispute last year, Russia now requires Ukraine to pay in advance for gas shipments. Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev warned that its most recent payments would only be good for another three to four days.


As ravaged Ukraine town regains peace fear of war remains Daily Mail Online

Now the strategy comes into play. If Kiev wants to disconnect Novarossiya from the gas they plan on stealing from the hated Russians, then they are admitting that it is now a seperate state and Kiev is free from any commitments to the people there. The Novarossiyans would be delighted to hear that, but it is not what Kiev wants. Unfortunately for Porky, his hands are tied. Either he admits losing Novarossiya or face gas supplies being cut until full payment. Either way the separatists win and by association so does Russia.
 
Alive & Dead. Two videos:

First one one shows joking Ukrainian Armed Forces cannon fodder filmed by themselves with their phone camera in the farmhouse they've occupied. The second shows the same UAF soldiers lifeless, filmed by Novorossyian Armed Forces militias the next day, at the same place all blasted to hell.

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

 
22:42 hrs now in Novorossiya ( 21:42 Kiev)

Donetsk City proper, airport area, Gorlovka and other places in DNR have been bombarded off and on all night and today with the full spectrum including MLRS. Railroad system in Debaltsevo was bombarded last night and this morning, extensive damage done to the marshaling yards and the main lines plus station area.

"We don't want to scare everybody, but we are preparing for full-scale war," warns Vadym Prystaiko - Ukraine's deputy foreign minister - telling CBC during a stunning interview that "what we expect from the world is that the world will stiffen up in the spine a little." Deamnding that West provide 'lethal weapons' Prystaiko rages "everybody is afraid of fighting with a nuclear state. We are not anymore." Coming just a week after the Minsk Summit 'peace' deal and with Germany having warned they are likely unable to stop arms being supplied to Ukraine, Prystaiko concludes, "we would like [The West] to send lethal weapons to Ukraine... weapons to allow us to defend ourselves."

Occasional shelling heard all through the day in Donetsk - sounds like incoming Grads as I write this Ukraine.

C4 News
alex thomson on Twitter Occasional shelling heard all through the day in Donetsk - sounds like incoming Grads as I write this Ukraine

Kerry just used "Slava Ukrayine. America is with you" at the end of his speech. When refering the the war which is now raging in Ukraine.
One Year Anniversary of the Maidan Protests in Ukraine
 
The US has no right interfering in thier affairs. The US should not be involved in any manner.
 
[eng subs] Combat footage: NAF troops entering Debaltsevo, report by ICorpus



OSCE team in conflict-torn Debaltsevo mission

An OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) monitoring mission visited the war-torn city of Debaltsevo, Eastern Ukraine on Saturday. Members of the OSCE mission were accompanied by a team from the Red Cross with trucks of food and medicine for the city's residents.



Blast in Kharkiv kills at least 3, wounds 10 during pro-govt march, Ukraine officials say.
Blast kills three during pro-govt march in eastern Ukraine - Yahoo News UK

Russian forces tossed at Donbass 60 pieces of military equipment and a large number of trucks loaded with ammunition - NSDC

"According to the survey, 21 February, the Russian Federation to the railway station in Amvrosiyivka arrived military train with 60 pieces of military equipment, there are tanks and armored combat vehicles. Then, formed colonies military equipment moved in the direction of the settlement Novoivanovka-Kumacheva-Telmanovo" , - he said.

60 - - 22.02.15 14 26 .

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VIDEO shows moment of explosion (0:20) in Kharkiv

 
Well Ukraine did kind of screw themselves in this matter. Namely, they borrowed and borrowed until they are nearly broke.

Yes, part of the reason they are losing, is because the rebels are funded by Russians. I get that.

But the other problem is, Ukraine is broke. The reason the Ukraine military can't put up a huge fight, is because they are unfunded by their bankrupt government.

I wish Americans, and specifically the leftists, could figure this out. If we don't stop over spending, and digging ourselves deeply into debt, we're going to end up like the Ukraine someday.

The entire Ukraine conflict would be completely different right now, if the Ukraine government had been frugal, and swimming in cash.

Now I don't mean that specifically a large group of Mexican rebels will start an armed conflict. We're pretty far from that problem.

But after the 2011 tsunami, things were pretty tense around Japan, because they were (and are) deeply in debt, and it was hard to tell if they had the ability to deal with the disaster.

We don't know what the future will hold, just like Ukraine didn't. Unfortunately, their fiscal irresponsibility is going to result in the loss of a good chunk of their country.

Just like New Orleans didn't have the money to deal with Katrina.

We have got to stop over spending like this, or something really bad is going to happen.
 
Ukrainian army claim Russia supplying new weapon near Mariupol

For the past few days fighting has intensified in the small coastal village of Shirokino, a few miles east of Mariupol.

Colonel Viktor Shidlyukh, the deputy commander of Ukrainian forces defending Mariupol supplied the Telegraph with a video which he claimed had been filmed by a Ukrainian army soldier in Shirokino on Friday.

In the footage a bang is heard and a cloud of black forms in the sky, Col Shidlyukh said that this was a new form of artillery weapon that was being used in the conflict for the first time.

He said it had been supplied to the separatists by Russia and was designed to explode in the air, targeting troops below.
Video Ukrainian army claim Russia supplying new weapon near Mariupol - Telegraph

 
I didn't realize we were at war in the Ukraine but you can bet your last dollar if we are and with Obungles as CiC we'll lose and lose badly
 
Exchange of POWs near Debaltsevo

English -



Not only that...

There were 4 women in that exchange - all family members of DNR's militiamen who used to live in ukie-controlled territory.

One woman tells that she got taken away, brought to Debaltseve, was tortured, blackmailed, and spent 8 days in SBU, then was sentenced for 60 days, then for one more month.

The CIA junta are using civilians as hostages and to exchange for their POWs.

 
"Angel" volunteers evacuating Donbass refugees

Angel volunteers evacuated 14K Donbass women+children.
Have Russian facebook page.

Now have a web page in English, Anyone seeking missing love ones in Donbass please report to this website for contact information and whereabouts..

CHILDREN UNDER FIRE
 
I didn't realize we were at war in the Ukraine but you can bet your last dollar if we are and with Obungles as CiC we'll lose and lose badly

And we are supposed to care about these people why exactly? Have you ever met some of them? I have. They are the most morally corrupt individuals as a group I have ever encountered. I've known around 20 Ukrains.
 
I only voted "No" because you did not supply an "I don't know" option... better to err on the side of caution, I suppose, but it's a shaky vote.

We (the West, and the US) have a vested interest in an independent and West-leaning Ukraine, but, given that country's historical condition - in thrall to whatever Czarist or Soviet or Federation Empire happens to be ruling at the moment - and its questionable electoral processes in recent times - and its poison-pill ethnic Russian population in its eastern half (mostly imported since 1917-1918 if I recall correctly) - and its foolish diplomatic gestures - and its lackluster military performance during the early going before the Russians were able to tip the scales in favor of the rebels - and given our cowardly acquiescence to the fait accompli of the Crimea - (1) I'm not sure that we should be intervening, and (2) I'm currently operating under the impression that even if we should have intervened, that it's too late - that that window of opportunity for effective intervention has already closed.

I dunno... which is why I would have wished for that third option on the survey mechanism.

If Ukraine DOES fall, however, I vote for NATO to heavily militarize ALL of its borders with Russia, insofar as those NATO allies (Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey) - insofar as these member-allies wish it.

Thereby drawing a REAL line in the sand, that a subsequent leader, with balls, would be able to enforce.
 
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It is a European problem...AND the Ukraine gov't is a bunch of Nazis. Let them die for all I care...we have American issues to deal with.
 
Ukrainian member of parliament Viktoria Shilova, the Deputy of Dnipropetrovsk city council ? She posted this video in Aug 2014.



She has now been arrested on orders from the freedom loving democratic Pro-US regime in Kiev and faces 8 years in prison for opposing the war against Novarossiya and the current conscription fiasco in Ukraine.

Meanwhile the deadly bomb attack on the Euromaidan march in Kharkiv is being rightly condemned. An attack on unarmed civilians is CRIMINAL, even if you strongly disagree with their political sentiments. It is as much a crime as the state sanctioned murders of thousands of civilians in Donbas by the US supported Ukrainian military.

Who was responsible? Possibly some extreme element in the local anti-Kiev militia who have been very active in the region. Just as possible (given the psychopathic nature of people like Kolomoisky) a false flag intended to trigger a massive security crackdown in the city amidst fears of it breaking free from the iron grip of Porky's failing regime.

The local partisan leader has DENIED being responsible for this incident.
(English subtitles available by clicking CC on video).

 

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